Land Based Homes??

It's supposed to get into the 40's in the next couple of nights but right now it's glorious -- windy, sunny and the batts are doing an absorption charge. Of course this morning with 7.7 incoming amps and the wind genny spinning it was raining. Yes, it's the Sunshine State.

I never knew that bit about watching where the snow melts first so that's tucked aside in case I come down with a case of insanity and head north at some point.

manyboats said:

I think living on a boat is nuts and would never part w a land home. However we are all livaboards. It's just a question of to what degree.
Many here in the US PNW spend the summer (or a significant part of it) up north. I've done some of that but I love my "stuff" and have no intention of dumping many things but now some must go.

We just bought a house a little smaller than the last and much smaller the the one before that. But now we finally have enough space (2 acres square) and I'm building carports and similar. Last fewdays it's been down in the low twenties and teens so most work has stopped. And in the cold weather the size of a house is golden.

I don't think we're going back to Alaska (just too far) but we plan on doing many week or two boat trips in Puget Sound and lower BC. We will be living aboard then but most of the time we'll be anxious to get home.

This is the Skagit River. We live about 2 city blocks to the left (north) of the river. We are a bit up in the mountains from Puget Sound.

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To each his own, Eric- I came out of 3000 sq ft house and couldn't be happier than I am now living aboard in (essentially) an 800 sq ft apt. I used to have all the stuff- 3 car garage, with 1 bay outfitted for my race car (tools, rack, compressors, spare engines and transmissions), 1/3 acre plot, etc, etc.... and now am perfectly happy with my lack of stuff and small living space.

I don't lack for anything, and enjoy the lack of yardwork

This past week, the boat was a balmy 70° inside while it was in the 20s outside....

Full time liveaboards now for 18 months and the house now turned into a rental. We made the commitment to go fulltime, while we were still working, to see it the plan worked for us. The house was turned over to a profession property manager, so we could see what it would be like to be in the situation...again before we pushed off for good. Our expected exit date is still 72 weeks away so we can make adjustments if need be, but so far, we are loving it.

Having the house leased for 12 months, means we can't move back, but then in the past 18 months we have never wanted to. At some point that will be additional income as well, and we keep a piece of dirt. Shortly the cars will go. As for items we've owned, many passed on to friends, family or yard sales. Just made no sense to store a couch table ..stuff for 2 years..5 years.20 years whatever. If we move back to dirt, we'll buy new stuff, and be money ahead as opposed to paying storage for years.

It may not work for everyone, but it is working for us..

I'm new here, but this thread struck a chord with me. My wife doesn't know it yet, but we may be headed in this direction. Where we are coming from may provide an additional consideration for some of you.

We sold our home not long ago and are currently living full time in our RV. I did a couple of years of research before we moved into our current fifth wheel trailer. We went through the process of simplifying and getting rid of extraneous stuff. We love not having to maintain or worry about a fixed home and especially not worrying about things happening to it while we are not there. Now, we are parked in an RV resort in Anacortes, WA and I am dreaming of a trawler. This area is beautiful, but we could easily move somewhere else if we wanted to. A little over a month ago, we were in Rockport, TX.

What I envision for a year or two down the road is possibly living on board, but keeping our RV in storage for whenever we want to live/move about on land again.

So, for those of you who live almost entirely on board, does the house need to be fixed or could it be mobile?

I did it backwards.. lived aboard a series of yachts and a RV for decades when I was young, then at the same time dockage prices was going through the roof (from $150.00 a month to $800.00 in just 3 years) down here in Miami, I was watching all the construction of high rises going up in the 90's, and (rightfully) figured I could buy one WITH dockage for what I was paying to rent 4 pilings and a seawall at the marina. Good move on my part. I was recently quoted $1800.00 a month to park a Bayliner 4788 here at a gated marina in N. Miami. Had it behind a neighbors house and it was stolen. Got it back, because I remembered seeing a 4788 going through the Broad Causeway Drawbridge (advantage of a high rise- VIEW!!) a couple of hours earlier, and tracked it down to the Miami River where I caught the thief red handed. Had my Captain (he had left the keys in the ignition!) take it up to Marina in Riviera Beach where it was much less expensive. Did I call the police on the thief? Yes, I did, but they never showed up, so I decided to make him a friend instead, as figured "how many times do you get to meet a guy with balls enough to steal a boat in broad daylight?- plus I was on HIS turf alone." Called the Coast Guard and they said "call us back tomorrow".
Better to have a pirate in the rolodex -than one looking for revenge. He said he passed 2 Coast Guard boats in Government cut too.
Bought ANOTHER boat to cruise in 2010, (sailboat- too slow- sold it after taking it exactly 2 miles from where I bought her) then bought a 43' Wellcraft in 2011- again dockage was the stickler, so it now lives in Curacao. Just for the record I personally wouldn't take a 1988 Wellcraft Portifino to even the Bahamas as I thought it just a cocktail bay cruiser, BUT the buyer took her all the way home on her bottom during Hurricane season with NO issues. Ironic that I specialize in Pilothouse boats but the longest voyage taken by any of my customers was in anything BUT a ocean voyaging boat. Where there's a will -there's a way.

Tim, While the original question was geared more toward the fixed base homeowners, who had or had not made the decision to sell and move aboard permanently, the fact is, home is home be it mobile of fixed. Keeping a mobile (RV) home on land makes a ton of good sense.

PHK- Interesting observations. I like the idea of a waterfront place with a dock. Makes good sense.
Glad you recovered your boat as well. I knew a girl once, a former Coastie no less, who decided that stealing boats was more lucrative than staying legit. She and her boyfriend stole dozens of yachts over a period of a couple of years, selling them all in South America and the Caribbean. The stories she has told me of their exploits were truly amazing, both on their end and in the stupidity of the vessel owners. I was thinking of hiring her on as a consultant. It takes a thief to stop a thief! Unfortunately, as a condition of her probation, she can't be anywhere near a boat or the waterfront for another few years.

Greed and stupidity (on her boyfriends part) finally got them busted. She told him taking this one boat was a bad idea due to the location, but he didn't listen. She was released from prison about 2 years ago. The boyfriend still has a stretch to do

The bottom line is, they took every one of them right under the watchful eyes of all the enforcement agencies

When I first moved aboard, I kept my home, hired a management company and rented it out. It's been rented ever since. They charge one month's rent to lease it, and that includes credit checks, background checks, ads, etc. Then they charge 10% of the rent monthly to deal with the tenants. It's a great deal for me, since the only time I hear from anybody is if there is an expense over $250 that's needed. They inspect the house twice a year and send me a report. Charge 1/2 month's rent if a tenant re-leases. You get to have a dirt address to use for the UPS store, etc. It's paid for, and I can always move back if needed.

Sounds like a cool house! I've had storages spaces of various sizes while I've lived aboard. To save expense, I've also farmed out collectibles like a huge roll-top desk to people who could use them in their home. Your comment is spot on...the only reason to rent a storage space is to keep heirlooms that aren't replaceable, and the overflow stuff you MUST have even while living on the boat. The latter in my category are Christmas decorations we use every year in the parade, cooking stuff and electronics for when I move back to a house (which I did earlier this year). If you do the math, you'll realize it'll cost more to store things like refrigerators and other appliances, furniture, etc. than it'll cost you to buy those things when you move back to the house. When I moved back to the new house this year, I bought all my furniture used...when I move back to the boat I'll sell it for about what I bought it for. Store as little as possible!
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Capt Kangeroo said:

Kudo's to "Off Duty", great post. To sell or not to sell, the wife & I are agonizing over this very decision. It was always a part of our plan to sell the house when we moved aboard but as the day draws rapidly closer, we are having serious second thoughts.

Financially and logically it makes no sense whatsoever to keep it, it's too big, maintenance intensive and not suitable to renting out. Part of our problem is it is a very unique home that would be impossible to replace should we want to move back to land, the other hard part is that by virtue of size it has become a repository of family antiques and mementos that have been passed down for generations. In keeping with our plan I started selling this stuff off but it is getting increasingly difficult as I get down to our so-called prized possessions.

It is encouraging to know that so many have somehow gotten over these hurdles, as far as the stuff goes I'm thinking of renting a storage unit for the things we seemingly can't part with and see how things go. As to the house we are at an impasse and simply can't decide but I suspect common sense will eventually have to prevail.

I am thinking of one of those reverse mortgage type deals where they pay you a monthly amount and you get to stay in the house until death, has anybody gone this route? At a glance, it seems to me this might offer the best of both worlds and eliminates the need to sell anything. Thoughts anyone?

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There is a third way to look at this problem, which only Fast Fred has hinted at.

Buy a house on the water with a dock.

In 2005 we sold our house for a inflated price at the top of the FL real estate “bubble”. Not because we were smart but just because we felt it was time to go cruising. Pure luck. I rented a storage unit because I was not going to sell my tools. I told the Admiral to fill it up with what she wanted to keep and she did - both levels. Whew, lot’s of stuff!

We cruised for 6 years. I never thought of us as live aboards since we kept moving. We were cruisers, stopping once a year or so for a month so we could attend to family or maintenance.

I hate living aboard in a marina - it’s like being back in a college dorm where everybody knows your business.

One day at anchor in Dark Harbor ME the Admiral says to me, “Lets go home to FL and buy a house on the waterway”.

So we did. Now when we cruise for 3 or 4 months at a time I have a service that comes by the house, exercises the appliances, checks the place over and sends me a video report.

My business partner drives our cars from time to time, and exercises my 2 motorcycles.

We get a lot of cruisers who we met on the water stop by our dock. Some of them are members here. We sure do have a good time with our visitors.

Life is good.

Mike
DeFever 40

Sceptic-Sounds like the best of both worlds

Keith, I like the outlook on the replaceable articles. Makes good fiscal sense to me

Thanks to both of you.

Happy New Year

Before my wife and I purchased our last house we had this discussion. We could have gone either way. There certainly is a lot of appeal in having less space, I have lived with my son and wife in under 800 square feet. The less space you have the less time is spent on that space.
Our minds weren't completely made up, but when we found our current home it just felt like the right move now. It's a lot of room - but it's funny how we fill the room in our lives. Whatever that might be, whether hundreds of square feet to thousands.
Later in life we may find ourselves much closer to the prospect of living full time. Until that time comes we'll enjoy the time we do have on whatever boat we happen to be on.

Agree with Keith. Self serve storage. If you follow the industry comments you will hear that the industry estimates that most long term storage renters spend more in rent then the value of the items stored.

Marty

I have always wanted to live aboard and bought our boat with that in mind. We have 2 homes in NE Florida. Our townhouse is currently rented and will be paid off in 2 years. Our other home suits our needs but is too large for just my wife and I. Over the last 10 years my priorities have changed somewhat so I when the time comes we will sell the big house remodel the townhouse and split our time between the boat and townhouse. I have a few more years of working before we can really take off for any extended cruising but we will downsize expenses and increase the cruising kitty. I am not ready to sell everything and just have the boat. The comment of not having all eggs in one basket makes sense and the fact of having a home so close to being paid for it just makes sense to go that route for a while.

Sceptic said:

There is a third way to look at this problem, which only Fast Fred has hinted at.

Buy a house on the water with a dock.

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As far as I'm concerned that is THE answer. Only problem is the $. So, for me, it's looking like a place on the water with postage stamp size land, or, lots of acreage out in the boonies. There are a lot of advantages and disadvantages to either. Since I've been living in a townhouse community for about 8 years I've had my fill of neighbors. A little solitude in the woods is looking mighty attractive right now.

I'm just thankful that I'm in a position to have choices!

BaltimoreLurker said:

As far as I'm concerned that is THE answer. Only problem is the $. So, for me, it's looking like a place on the water with postage stamp size land, or, lots of acreage out in the boonies. There are a lot of advantages and disadvantages to either. Since I've been living in a townhouse community for about 8 years I've had my fill of neighbors. A little solitude in the woods is looking mighty attractive right now.

I'm just thankful that I'm in a position to have choices!

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Always a good position to be in.
That's the nice thing about our home. Our neighbors are close, but not too close, and they're all really great folks. The location is close (relatively) to anything/everything I want/need to do or get to.

I'd love to do the place on the water with a dock. Unfortunately, while properties are doable, our insurance industry here in Florida has just about dashed that hope for most working stiffs with their recent flood insurance rate hikes

Off Duty said:

Come on, cut the guy some slack
I'm with you on the snow, but there are a lot of people I've met over the years, that prefer to live in colder climes. I'm not one of them, but to each their own

Ocean Breeze: I cab certainly understand your situation.
Previous to the trawler idea, we had been considering a waterfront condo here in Fla. Unfortunately, our insurance industry has shot a huge hole in the idea for now, doubling, tripling and more, the home owners insurance rates for waterfront homes and condos. These maggots have even taken the license to move the "area" into what have been traditionally/historically "no flood zones", and

OD

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You don't have to buy into the insurance industries trap of buying their products. They push fear, and hold themselves the solution, when they are really the problem. As long as you have no lenders requiring insurance for their protection, your not required by law to have it for your home, boats, and toys. Instead of paying them huge sums for little (The Insurance giants just file bankruptcy and flee, when facing huge claims, as they did here in Florida after Andrew and Wilma, and you saw what they paid people in New Orleans after Katrina, so all your premiums were wasted) coverage-just go self insured, and spend that money on making sure your stuff is not vulnerable.

Be prepared. I rode out Andrew on my 50' pilothouse, and had no damage, and never had insurance. Of course, like windsurfing over sharks, you really cannot fall, and therefore don't. Insurance makes one subliminally have that option.

In Florida where rates are insane for boats (would you believe people pay $9k annually for a Bayliner 45'?) and homes ($36k annually for $300k?!), it's better to instead "have your act wired tight" (extra anchors, docklines, good locks, don't buy a house built on a slab in a flood zone, have generators, batteries, lots of food and water, and have a plan! Take a professional boat handling course, or hire a captain to train you for YOUR boat.). Don't let their business stop you from living life, the way YOU want to live it!

You always have the option of doing what they do, which is to have your assets protected by legal means, such as corporations inside of corporations inside a LLC, and file bankruptcy as a last resort when and IF the **** hit's the fan. Florida has a Homestead law which protects your home (where people hide their assets) from creditors. That's why OJ moved here. "ounce of prevention" Oh, final thought- Always know where the mother of people who could damage you lives. :>)

I am in the process of downsizing now. My son and his wife, and the new grand daughter, live in the "big house". They plan to add a few more curtain climbers in the near future. My wife and I have moved into the "guest house". Tiny, 1 bedroom 1 bathroom, kitchen/living room, etc. We love it !!!. Also, I have divested myself of lots of things I thought I really loved. How about a Dodge Viper SRT10, with every power upgrade available, over 650 hp. It had just over 3000 miles on it. Obviously I didnt drive it much. Or my wifes Z06 corvette, that a rat filled with bird seed while it sat in the 3 car garage, didnt use it, hadta go. Shelby Cobra kit car, gone. I am still in the process of getting rid of stuff. I have a 90x30 shop full of "stuff" that I thought I needed. Turns out, after these things are gone I've almost forgotten about them. Yeah, I had fun with the toys and have some memories, like shifting the Viper into 3rd at over 100 and doing 3 full 360s going down Trail road past my house. I wont forget that. I have lots of memories like that. But the thing is, I dont miss the things I had at one time thought i really loved. My plan is, when I finish my trawler and put it back in the drink, is to cruise, maybe the world, maybe just close. But I do plan to be on the water. I hope my wife goes with me.

kulas44 said:

... I hope my wife goes with me.

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:lol::lol: Well I hope so too my friend...

OD

I know this sounds counter intuitive but there is a lot of waterfront property in FL that is not in a flood zone.

Step one in looking for property in FL is to download the Flood Zone maps for the area you are interested in. By the way, these flood zone maps are not produced by the insurance companies but by Fema, and in the case of FL, in consultation with the Saint Johns water management district for north FL, and the South FL water management district for south Fl.

My property is not in a flood zone. My house is 14 feet above the water level at MHW. I have seen the water come over the seawall cap by about a foot on two occasions. My house is not on stilts - it’s the grade of the land. Makes carrying heavy stuff back and forth to the little DeFever a PIA.

The reason flood insurance rates have increased in some areas is that Fema and the US govt., by direction of the Congress and the president is obligated to make the program more in line with the real market rates.

My Flood Insurance has not gone up at all.

I would hope that Beach Bum would chime in here. He’s a experienced FL real estate guy who used to live in my area - Central FL.

Mike

Edit to add - I hope Mrs. Kulas goes along also. Mrs not-as sceptical-as me made all the difference.

If she chooses not to I will understand, she really likes her babies. I on the other hand, dont really care much for babies, and they dont seem to like me either. Give me a 10 year old and we will have a large time, until they are about 16, then all bets are off. Except, most 16 year old boys will fish instead of going to the prom, if they have been brought up right. My sons learned how to shoot wild bobwhites when they were about 10. We noodled catfish when the oldest 8. They still love hunting and fishing.

PHK- You're correct sir. Assuming everything is paid off, there is no requirement to have insurance. Had to correct a health insurance guy recently when he started spouting off about the "requirement" to have auto insurance. "Proof of financial responsibility" is all one needs in Florida. As for insurance in general, While not required, I'll keep it rather than play the odds. get a good rep, good company, and might even want to consult a "good" attorney to make sure all the "loopholes" are filled in. If you're happy, then go for it. I'd rather use OPM than my own

Sceptic- very good points. Unfortunately, most of the West Coast of Florida is low enough that building codes require stilts for most new beachfront development, and just about everything is in a flood zone. I had a friend who lived in Palm Coast, Fl. and his yard leading to his dock was much the same way as you described yours...quite a grade.

Boonies , You bet !!!

We are not NOWHERE , but it can easily be seen across our canal.

At night to the East there is not a visible light for 15 miles!

15 miles to the grocery , and 55 to Ft Myers , but 65 ft wide water lots front can be has for $50-$60K, and homes with docks start at $100K -$125K.

The biggest place with 3 lots and a 5 year old house is about 350K .

Sure it takes getting used to for a recovering New Yorker , that dozens of shops/rersturants are not within a block, but eventually one gets used to it.

FL has no income tax and really fine gun Carry permitting , so going to town one is not caught in a gun free, free fire zone, like Chicago.

200+ ft of dock and two face docks for 50-70 ft in a hurricane hole,, and a workshop under the stilt house makes a good retirement spot .

Best the neighborhood has no problems with a boat or RV parked .

pilothouse king said:

In Florida where rates are insane for boats (would you believe people pay $9k annually for a Bayliner 45'?) and homes ($36k annually for $300k?!), it's better to instead "have your act wired tight" (extra anchors, docklines, good locks, don't buy a house built on a slab in a flood zone, have generators, batteries, lots of food and water, and have a plan!

You always have the option of doing what they do, which is to have your assets protected by legal means, such as corporations inside of corporations inside a LLC, and file bankruptcy as a last resort when and IF the **** hit's the fan. Florida has a Homestead law which protects your home (where people hide their assets) from creditors.

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I use to have a small house in Fl, but sold it. And the insurance rates were going up greatly, even after NEVER having any claims against the policy for many years. Have not looked at any rates in a long time. Are they that high all over Fl, or just in the southern areas?

Are the boat insurance rates really high all over Fl as well?....and because the vessel is in that southern USA hurricane potential zone.? Wonder about rates up on the St Johns river near St Augustine,...either for a ~40' boat, or small home/trailer for part time living in USA?

Homestead law/credit takes a while to newly establish, or re-establish, is that correct??

Sceptic said:

I know this sounds counter intuitive but there is a lot of waterfront property in FL that is not in a flood zone.

Step one in looking for property in FL is to download the Flood Zone maps for the area you are interested in. By the way, these flood zone maps are not produced by the insurance companies but by Fema, and in the case of FL, in consultation with the Saint Johns water management district for north FL, and the South FL water management district for south Fl.

My property is not in a flood zone. My house is 14 feet above the water level at MHW. I have seen the water come over the seawall cap by about a foot on two occasions. My house is not on stilts - it’s the grade of the land. Makes carrying heavy stuff back and forth to the little DeFever a PIA.

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Wasn't there a lot of 'redefinition' by the insurance companies of what was and was not covered under flood insurance, and what constituted a flood??

Weren't some really heavy rain loses refined as floods so the insurance companies could claim the homeowner could not collect on insurance as he/she did not have flood coverage, even though they were not in a flood potential area??

Seems to me this occurred in both FL and much of the southern states affected by Katrina ??....the insurance companies finding ways to weasel out of obligations.

FF said:

15 miles to the grocery , and 55 to Ft Myers , but 65 ft wide water lots front can be has for $50-$60K, and homes with docks start at $100K -$125K.

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South or north of Meyers?

I was down that way a few years ago and looked at a houseboat in Goodland FL....interesting place.

...but I imagine the weather somewhat parallels that of Thailand, thus my Thai wife and myself would have trouble selecting what season to spend where?

South or north of Meyers?

EAST , up the Caloosahatchie River past the Ortonsa Lock.

Gooing inland means a day spent driving down the river to get to the GOM or 2 days going east to the Atlantic , but thats the price of cheap , in a Hurricane Hole.

Day sailing sucks , its just driving in a dug canal, but it is fine for required exercising the engine.

FF.

Any obstructions enroute to either the GOM or Atlantic side from your place?

I'm assuming from your post, that there's no HOA Nazi's to have to deal with

I'd like to get somewhere closer the open water, but hey, a day one way or the other ain't gonna hurt, and it's as you said, a small price to pay for the safety of the hurricane hole.

Besides, if I'm understanding it correctly, I could even run our airboats out to the lake from there? Do I have the geography correct?

OD

We will have our home paid for in March. The hubby won't let me sell it. Kind of a twist there. He just feels like he needs something to come home to. We have a 42ft CHB Ponderosa in the San Joaquin Delta. I figure we have a lot of waterways around here to explore close to home. I would like to go to the PNW for a bit as well. We will have to see where the tide takes us.

Any obstructions enroute to either the GOM or Atlantic side from your place?

Franklyn Lock and Ortona Lock and a really low bridge at Alva. if FMY bound.

Also more locks and bridges going to the Atlantic.

The locks are one of the prices for Hurricane Hole safety.

>Step one in looking for property in FL is to download the Flood Zone maps for the area you are interested in. By the way, these flood zone maps are not produced by the insurance companies but by Fema, and in the case of FL, in consultation with the Saint Johns water management district for north FL, and the South FL water management district for south Fl.<

Fl has just reevaluated almost all the flood zones , but they used 40-50 year old maps .
There is currently a HUGE hue and cry over this Army Corps Stupidity , and many law suits will follow.

Hurricane insurance can be quite high , although a proper shaped , and constructed , and protected home will pay about 1/2 of a lesser home..

FF said:

Franklyn Lock and Ortona Lock and a really low bridge at Alva. if FMY bound....Also more locks and bridges going to the Atlantic...The locks are one of the prices for Hurricane Hole safety...

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Good point.

Fl has just reevaluated almost all the flood zones , but they used 40-50 year old maps .
There is currently a HUGE hue and cry over this Army Corps Stupidity , and many law suits will follow.

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Been waiting to see the fur fly, as I'm sure it will.
Going to be an interesting ride for a few years I believe.

Hurricane insurance can be quite high , although a proper shaped , and constructed , and protected home will pay about 1/2 of a lesser home..

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Small price to pay for living in paradise