power more choices

Yacht.
Watson 72.
Watson 72 Specs

cant use my first choice Grenna slow/medium speed diesel.
Propulsion
don't think it would fit. weight 8.5t inc prop.shaft and gearbox.

so most likely options.

Cat

Cummins.

what are peoples experiences, either option B rated.

I like Cat so more than likely go with the pussy.

I will be discussing option 1 with the builder I really want it.

Michael.

Both are very good, I believe Cat will have the edge in parts and service availability with dealers (most good) almost any where in the world, Cummins won't be too far behind.

Why not the Deere that they list in the specs?

twistedtree said:

Why not the Deere that they list in the specs?

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Correct.

Watson is a very smart builder and know their power choices well. The way the engine is set up with PTOs and other hang ons may have already been well thought out favoring the JD. Also the prop, transmission exhaust, cooling, stringers and other related mechanical and electrical layouts require considerable work between Watson and the engine supplier - far more than this forum with a few quick opinions can offer.

I trust you have a capable and experienced owner's rep working with you on this issue as well as all other build subjects?

There are many other choices for prime movers that are available. Look at what is being used by fishermen and industry. They don't need to brag about having the most popular engine used by the Guru's of the day and those w bigger or/and more expensive boats.

If all you want to do is move your boat dependably there are no doubt many choices other than Lugger, Cat and Cummins. Get out of the box.

Most of the tractor tugs I've been aboard lately have Cats. Since these are working machines that cannot afford down time, my feeling is the operators chose what they felt was most reliable.

Keep in mind that different brands will be strong in different HP ranges. You are looking for something in the 300-400HP range, and want something that is continuous duty rated, or the next level down. M1 or M2 as many call it. Based on that you can see who offers something, then check the reputation.

Having worked for several marine firms and towed plenty of fisherman...they often buy the most inexpensive...not the most reliable because there is no "most reliable" data file available.

They buy because they get a deal...which in all fairness is usually a local distributer that they trust will make things right when things go wrong...

Anyone foolish enough to think one brand is "better" or "more reliable" than another needs to keep looking around the marine business....that said...I have my favorites too....

service options in Australia are one requirement, but not the be all to end all as world travel is what its all about.

still would like one of the large slow speed diesels.


Michael.

Mate,
Must admit after 40 + years at sea as a marine engineer had never heard of the Grenna medium speed engines. Had a look at their web page and yes a nice engine, big slow and heavy, but too big and too much HP for your requirements.

Have spent a lot of time with electronic engines over the past 10 odd years and main experience is with CATs and to be sure if I was going deep sea with one main it would not be electronic. ( Had a couple of bad experiences with electronic engines on small 60 mt anchor handlers out of Dampier)
That is the reason when I recently repowered my own vessel a couple of years ago I went for a Gardner 6LXB instead of a new John Deer even though it cost me a bit more.
I am now C/E on harbour tugs in Pt Hedland and we have CAT 3516's just glad we don't go to sea with them.

Yanmar do a nice medium speed diesel which may be worth looking at.
It would be nice to keep the main Eng RPM at about 1000 to 1200 RPM with good reduction and swing a big prop maybe even a variable pitch unit.

Cheers
Benn

yes I really like the old slow speed big diesels.

And would not mind NON electronic engine have enough issues with electronics on 4x4s/

Looked at gardiners are they available new now??

there are a few of the slow speed big cube engines still around, so still digging around.

Michael

pair of these. 8LXB

kelvin


TAS8 8 165.1 x 184.15 31.5 400 hp
298 kw
1200rpm

The Air Police are still locked into their source of existance Global something , they dont care which hoax gives them power , as long as they can keep their buroRats employed , regulating..

Used , rebuilt engines (not electric controlled) are becoming the engine of choice for much of the trucking industry.

Perhaps boaters will be reduced to purchasing papers from a hulk, and >rebuilding< the hulk by keeping a keel bolt and builders ID plate , to get buy the Air Police rules for a new build .

Sounds like the DD 71 series will gain favor once again , as the cylinder count can be matched to the desired cruise load.

rjtrane said:

Most of the tractor tugs I've been aboard lately have Cats. Since these are working machines that cannot afford down time, my feeling us the operators chose what they felt was most reliable.

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CAT is also in the business of financing engine sales and new construction of vessels which install CAT engines and generators.

Think that might have anything to do with engine choice?

FF said:

Perhaps boaters will be reduced to purchasing papers from a hulk, and >rebuilding< the hulk by keeping a keel bolt and builders ID plate , to get buy the Air Police rules for a new build .

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Read the regs, Fred.

FF said:

Sounds like the DD 71 series will gain favor once again , as the cylinder count can be matched to the desired cruise load.

Click to expand...

DD 71 series running take outs have been fetching us scrap price less 5 cents/pound the last couple years. Nobody is willing to pay freight to ship one anywhere. We toss them in our old dump truck and drive them to the scrap yard when either the truck is full or someone needs to use it for something else.

Woulda been cheaper to scrap the busses they came outta IMO.

Out with the old ... in w the new.

Michael,
Gardners are not available new but complete rebuilds using all new parts are available.
New parts , liners, pistons , cranks etc are available ,blocks and cylinder casings are not available new.
Couple of very good (qualified out of Gardner work shop) rebuilders available in Bris and one very good one in NZ. Gardner Engines

The other good thing about the Gardner engines is they are still in use all over the world. Half the junks in Hong Kong, Motorised feluccas on the Nile and buses everywhere are still powered by Gardners.

A pair of 6LXBs or 8LXBs would be ideal

Cheers
Benn

RickB,
As you would know , with CAT you are also tied into them or their approved service agents for all spares and maintenance.
Unless of course you have done all their training courses and purchased all the diagnostic software, hardware and special tools.

Cheers
Benn

Tidahapah said:

RickB,
As you would know , with CAT you are also tied into them or their approved service agents for all spares and maintenance.

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Yes, and the costs can be breathtaking!

But, they also know what they are doing (except for some in Oceana) and don't waste a great deal of time.

But none of them are much good when you are out at sea and do not have the required equipment.
Even changing a fuel valve (injector) can't achieve much unless you can then retime the system.
At least with a Gardner or similar you can jack up one, two or more fuel pumps and run on the remaining cylinders.

Cheers
Benn

Can Watson do a new build, and the client take the risk, without adhering to Tier III/IV requirements. Nordhavn cannot.

Reading their web site they still offer Gardner rebuilds as an engine choice.
Cheers
Benn

sunchaser said:

Can Watson do a new build, and the client take the risk, without adhering to Tier III/IV requirements. Nordhavn cannot.

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THis I don't know, one may well have to comply with current regs

will try

Michael.

sunchaser said:

Can Watson do a new build, and the client take the risk, without adhering to Tier III/IV requirements. Nordhavn cannot.

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I can't speak to the issue of Australian emissions regulations but the Tier 3 and 4 that Americans spend so much time talking about needs a little clarification.


Rather than directly quote or attempt to paraphrase the legalese, just read the EPA link.

The EU has its own Tier system that is very similar to the US EPA, and the IMO has its version as well. They are fairly closely harmonized but unless you read and understand the regs you may easily be lead astray by internet gurus.

Before I bought an engine, or did not buy an engine, I would find out exactly what applies rather than take guidance from some of the posts in this forum.

Rick,
here in Australia unless the vessel is going into commercial survey there is not a lot of checking on compliance especially in the rebuild, one off build home build situation.
Compliance checks are only carried out by flag state, Individual state surveyors etc.
All commercial builds must comply with our EPA regs.
Cheers
Benn

Thanks Benn.

The link I forgot to paste last night for American readers is:

Diesel Boats and Ships | US EPA

Caterpillar has recently reintroduced the 3406C mechanical injection engine. Not available in the US of course, but this is the forerunner of the C15 and 3406E. The 3406C is 14.6L and available in various ratings up to 535hp and 2000NM.
It is still in commercial use world-wide in ferries, fishing boats, patrol boats as well as many recreational vessels , including mine, and, with a 3:1 transmission it would probably suit the Watson 72.
http://boatdiesel.com/News/News.cfm?P=20131122_Caterpillar

both preferred builders would rather go with cat or cummins.

that being the case Cats are it.

boat grew:
Watson 79
Overing 25.5

Michael