National Liquidators?

Anyone out there have experience with bank repossessed boat auctions? Happened upon this site that auctions off boats and airplanes subject to the lenders approval. I guess it works likes real estate, any input greatly appreciated........................................................


Brad

Talk about a day late...how about 4 years too late. You've missed the Repo boom here in Florida-although I hear it's still ongoing up north. Back in the hey day, they were selling over 500 boats a year from 3 different locations just in Ft. Lauderdale. There were some diamonds hidden in all the garbage. I've purchased a couple, a good friend of mine has purchased more. For the life of me I don't understand how some lost their boats as some were just a couple of payments from being paid off, the boats loaded (they remove and box up all the goodies and store them inside, so they usually come with WAY MORE equipment than listed or you will see in person-ASK "what do you have stored?"-I think if you don't ask-a lot of that stuff might end up in employee's homes) with new equipment, in excellent condition. On one I bought-the borrower didn't even respond to the seizure notice, or call me up to say "hey that's my boat you're selling for half price!!". I figured he must have been either dead or in jail oversea's.
In the last couple of years since the Repo boom peaked, they've been selling either brokerage boats, or one's they own themselves (they buy boats- and I've seen them pay more than I would-sight unseen on local boats!) AS IF they're Repos which makes it really easy for them. If it's really a bank boat, it can go either way, depending on the bank. Some they hold on to for WAY too long, ending up selling for less than offers a year earlier, then on others-the banks accepted the offer AND allowed surveys/sea-trials and accepted lower prices if the surveys found issues. I have seen some excellent deals this year too, just not as many as years past. I mean NICE boats that may need a new engine at worst, but they give you an allowance for it. You've got to go in person and check the boats out. Like I said, some are NICE, most aren't, and shouldn't be taken if given to you for free. Easy people to do business with. They have very low prices there for storage too (you don't have to buy a boat from them for this)=especially rack storage inside. Good luck.

I picked up my from NL alittle over three years ago The thing you have to understand is they have no interest other then moving the boat. That said you can always walk away, and you can always make your offer contingent on your surveys.. I did. What are you looking at ?

A friend bought one a few years ago. Watch out for the "additional fees" and additional shipping charges. Go into it with your eyes wide open.

We bought our Bayliner 4087 from Marine Lenders Services in Seattle- a repo outfit like NL, just not on the auction basis.

The transaction was smooth and easy. We radically lowballed their asking, they countered, and we made the deal happen.

GFC said:

A friend bought one a few years ago. Watch out for the "additional fees" and additional shipping charges. Go into it with your eyes wide open.

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I've never experienced ANY additional fees. On the other hand, if your friend had a boat shipped (which is a majority of their business-oversea's sight unseen) somewhere- then of COURSE there will be fee's for moving the boats to the port, prepping, or loading onto trucks. It's pretty simple process. You tell them what you will pay (a bid) and they submit it to the owners. If it's accepted you move on to the survey/sea-trial if that's what you desire. I've never even had to put up a deposit. They will do work on your boat for you if you pay them- such as painting bottoms, etc. They have a whole boatyard there with qualified workers.
Treat them (particularly true with car salesmen!) good, and they will treat you good. If you go in there with an attitude of distrust and suspicion, you'll likely get what you were looking for.
It's amazing what common courtesy and professional respect to others will garner you. Tipping of workers such as travel lift drivers, and the "grunts" (anywhere) pays off too. Twenty bucks isn't **** for us, but is something they remember forever. I tip car salesmen a hundred bucks up front-AMAZING how they will go to work for you, as their sales managers are always screwing them out of commissions.

A couple boats caught my attention in the National Liquidators' listings. I emailed, a few days later I got a boilerplate, generic reply that had nothing to do with the boat I was asking about. No callback, nothing. Then there's the $25 bidders account fee, then $1000 in escrow you have to put up when you place a bid, contingent on survey/inspection or not, and then as I recall they give you about five minutes to submit the entire balance due if the bid is accepted. I don't mind chasing a good deal and doing some legwork for the right boat, but I wasn't at all impressed with the almost total lack of response. I'm not going to fly out to a boat's location to look if I can't even get someone to return a call or email.

kthoennes said:

A couple boats caught my attention in the National Liquidators' listings. I emailed, a few days later I got a boilerplate, generic reply that had nothing to do with the boat I was asking about. No callback, nothing. Then there's the $25 bidders account fee, then $1000 in escrow you have to put up when you place a bid, contingent on survey/inspection or not, and then as I recall they give you about five minutes to submit the entire balance due if the bid is accepted. I don't mind chasing a good deal and doing some legwork for the right boat, but I wasn't at all impressed with the almost total lack of response. I'm not going to fly out to a boat's location to look if I can't even get someone to return a call or email.

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Think of it like the video's your seeing of Black Friday shopping today -and you want personal help over the phone or a email from a sales agent? AIN'T HAPPENING.. if you don't want it-others do. You notice on their website how many boats they've sold? OVER 30,000!!!
I just noticed they only have 224 boats right now. Used to be they always had over 500 every day for years. NOW they have the time to actually look you in the eyes and remember your name. BUT;
They don't return emails, they don't return phone calls. The agents do not leave their offices, they do not go look at the boats (see that turnover? Who can remember anything about even 224 boats?!), so can tell you nothing. They can read on their screen-where it came from, and when-and when it was released to be sold, some photos taken at the time-and THAT'S IT.. They don't have to. People come to them-you line up and "take a number" (back when it was busy) to see one just to make your bid. Some guys made over $400k a year sitting at their desks. It was a sweet gig. The only downside was getting fat from never getting out of their chair. NOW- though- if you DO show up- and you DO make personal contact (don't become a blur in their eyes) they WILL treat you good, and help you buy the boat. They will wave the fee's- that's just to cull out the crackpots and watch winders. You MUST go there in person to SEE the boats- the agents usually never do. The inventory turns over way too fast. The girl at the front desk gives you sheets of inventory (of what's out through the gates)-when you walk in and sign up (copy of drivers license)for security pass. The agents only see the same on their computers. They really don't have it up to date, so it's possible what you both see- is already sold, which can be frustrating. They don't usually have answers from the banks or owners until Tuesdays.
It's really worthwhile if you're a treasure hunter. But don't expect ANY PERSONAL SERVICE LIKE YOU WOULD FROM A YACHT BROKER. After your bid has been accepted and you've renegotiated a price (after survey etc)-they do expect a wire transfer rather quickly. Money talks. Great deals to be had if you take the effort. Effort being keyword.

VERY informative post

Great presentation. It shows you what the process really involves and what you need to do to play in their game. Very helpful for someone considering this type of purchase.

Knowledge is power!

So glad I asked this question! Thanks for all the great insight. I normally wouldn't have considered this route as an option as I feel using a broker is money well spent. Happened upon this site and noticed a yacht I was already looking at on "Yacht World" was also on this site. So is it safe to say the owner is trying to get rid of it "short sale" like a house subject to the banks approval?
My wife and I are done tire kicking and have the funds, just wanna make sure of any potential pitfalls if we consider this option.





Brad and Michelle................................................................

Buyer beware.

Buying a repo from anybody holds the same risks, and the same general realities.

You could say that repos are often neglected, but that's not necessarily the case, and many owners neglect their boats anyway. Assuming a repossessed boat is neglected is not understanding the timeline of repossession to sale. Neglect takes years, and with repossessions it's generally less than a single year from the first missed payment to the repossession sale. At least that's how it was with my boat.

Repossessions happen simply because a owner has a financial need to sell a boat, and is upside down at that time. That need is often due to a sudden job loss or business downturn.

We bought our 4788 Bayliner from key bank that held a $300,000 plus mortgage on a boat that in good condition was worth 225,000 or thereabouts.

At the time of repossession our boat was in average condition for its age. There were defered maintenance items, yes, but the boat was in reasonable condition, or so we all thought...

A previous potential purchaser made an offer and found at survey that one of the engines had high. Blow by. Premature engine failure is pretty common with this model boat since the manufacturer over propped the boat from the factory.

I was considering that boat and another better condition unit, also repossessed when I "heard" about the hi blowby.

I then got a quote for two cummins reman engines ($47k), installed, and sent that quote to the bank along with my offer of $110,000 with hull survey, but no mechanical contingency. We settled on $130k and the boat was mine.

I never even tested the engines, and repowered it with the two new engines. With a total refit and customize I'm money spent above the average "value" of this model but not enough to freak out over, and I have a brand new boat in almost every way.

Swabby said:

So glad I asked this question! Thanks for all the great insight. I normally wouldn't have considered this route as an option as I feel using a broker is money well spent. Happened upon this site and noticed a yacht I was already looking at on "Yacht World" was also on this site. So is it safe to say the owner is trying to get rid of it "short sale" like a house subject to the banks approval?
My wife and I are done tire kicking and have the funds, just wanna make sure of any potential pitfalls if we consider this option.





Brad and Michelle................................................................

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National Liquidators IS ON Yachtworld as National Yacht Sales. Once the boats have been repoed though, they are LONG past "short sales".

It's my experience that IF the person, or business who lost the boat doesn't fight ("friendly repossession"-the owner calls the bank first and gives it back) the process, it can be sold rather quickly (matter of 60 days), so one doesn't find the issues of neglect from sitting. IF they DO FIGHT the process-the boats can sit there for awhile.

In recent years they (National) has taken better care of the boats (remember NOT ALL are repo's!), putting plastic down over the carpets, covering the toilets so people don't use them, removing all the electronics and storing them inside their warehouse upon arrival. They haul the boats upon arrival, clean, and pressure wash the bottoms, install zincs, and even wash them every now and then. It's fresh water they sit in so that helps. They even keep the AC running 24/7 so there's no heat issues inside. This keeps the headliners up in the big boats where they were glued in (like Princess), keeps the mold and smell issues at bay, and makes the buying decision easier if one is not being baked.

I did several short sales with banks in 2008- one lender knocked off $200k to sell a 2000 5788 for $440k, and another knocked off $675k to sell a over customized 67' Chris Craft for $75k (out of Bankers mouth "We just got a Billion dollars in TARP funds what the f*** I care about $675k, just sell the boat". (both can be seen on my page on my site "boats sold")

To do a short sale one has to have a buyer ready to purchase. Also one has to have a loan with a bank where you can actually speak to somebody. In my examples, both loans were with the owners local bank where the borrowers had long time relationships. In the most extreme ($600k of OUR money to assist a German buyer) the banker not only forgave the loan, but refinanced his houses and cars to a lower interest rate.
It's really odd how pride will allow some sellers to not even consider this route even though the banks will gladly do it. I've since sold several other boats where the sellers had to dig into their pockets between $30k -$60k to make the payoff at the closing- even though I kept telling them "let me speak to your banker, it doesn't effect your credit scores or anything". They said "No, I'm afraid it will affect my credit".(so much for taking good advice) IF banks are taking free money, why shouldn't you? Especially when they're willing to do it. The threat of them having the boat come back as a repo (care and feeding) will motivate them to negotiate now versus in the future.

As to another reason people will let the banks have their boats instead of doing a short sale, or refinancing is if that the boats have expensive repairs needed, and they can't be sold on the Brokerage market (payoff too high, repair expenses too high), the owners can't use them due to these issues, so instead of throwing good money after bad making big monthly payments-they give them back to the bank in a "friendly repossession". I've seen them in MINT cosmetic condition, loaded with goodies, complete with the beds made up perfectly. The banks then WILL price them correctly and resale them, giving allowances to the buyers for repairs.
Hope this helps.
OH, they DO work with Brokers there, so you can have your broker come in and do normal brokering duties for you. Although it can be very frustrating. You don't have to go in blind. At the least hire a local surveyor to go do a pre-survey for you. They can tell you quickly if it's worth further pursuit.

Pilothouse King!

Thanks for all the info! This gives me a better idea of how to approach this. Wanted to make sure this auction is what it seems. Theres really only one yacht im interested in so I may take a crack at it. Im retired so I can certainly spend plenty of time looking at it.
Dswizzler.......................Im looking at a 2004 Mainship 400

Brad & Michelle

pilothouse king said:

It's really odd how pride will allow some sellers to not even consider this route even though the banks will gladly do it.

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Used to work for the mortgage division of one of the larger banks in the country. It amazed me how many people would just ignore late notices, intent to foreclose notices, and the like. They would just stonewall the bank, when all the bank wanted was to negotiate a way for the bank to keep getting some sort of payment, and for them to keep their house.

And then finally the bank was forced to begin the foreclosure process, and the borrowers would start getting letters from lawyers, and from the county. So then now, FINALLY, they would contact the bank and want to work out a deal. Sorry, at that point it was usually too late. By then the foreclosure process was well on its way and the time for negotiating was past.

Just really stupid.

So, the moral of the story is, if you get behind on payments TALK to your bank! Don't stonewall them. Don't ignore the letters they send. TALK to them. They really do want to work things out, and are usually willing to negotiate some sort of arrangement that you can afford.

Sorry for the tangent, but the irrational ways that people behave when they get behind on payments was just one of the things that always amazed the heck out of me.

Folks don't have to be behind on payments to lose touch with reality. Boats are depreciating assets, look at the sellers who paid $2-300K for a boat 10 years ago. All they've done is hose it off twice a year and put fuel in it, now they have it listed for damn near what they paid for it and wonder why it hasn't sold in 3 years.

Many of those same people will go out and drop $60K on a Benz knowing they won't get $25K for it in 5 years. Common sense really isn't very common.

CPseudonym said:

Folks don't have to be behind on payments to lose touch with reality. Boats are depreciating assets, look at the sellers who paid $2-300K for a boat 10 years ago. All they've done is hose it off twice a year and put fuel in it, now they have it listed for damn near what they paid for it and wonder why it hasn't sold in 3 years.

Many of those same people will go out and drop $60K on a Benz knowing they won't get $25K for it in 5 years. Common sense really isn't very common.

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Hey Craig, you've quit preaching; and gone the meddling now.

Moonstruck said:

Hey Craig, you've quit preaching; and gone the meddling now.

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$60K gets you a new E class.