In Search Of Nordhavn #3

N3 Offer

I guess my point here is, did you counter offer with all of the modifications in mind??? Or is it more of a time/hassle issue. I understand of it is time but you could try to lowball the guy. The upside is that you end up with the boat of your choice with a bunch of new stuff on it that you are aware of its quality....[/QUOTE]


There was a little back and forth on the counter offers but in the end the final offer on the table did not equal the "value" we needed to proceed. Again, it was not just the dollars but the unknowns that made me nervous. While I recognize that even new boats need one or two shake down cruises to get the boat dialed in, the number and type of issues are usually small in our experience. After the boat has been broken in you are normally good for a few of years. It is this level of comfort we have become accustomed to and hard to give up. Needless to say this does comes with a big initial cost. When you add in that we are on the very lower end of the Nordhavn wealth scale the decision is not easy. This boat was planned to be an interim boat until I retire and then god willing we would like to purchase a boat for full time cruising. The search continues..........

I find the secrecy a bit over the top. Afterall if the p.o. of the boat is here he already knows about the entire thing.
As a previous new only nordy owner it may be hard for you to look in objectively regarding a used one. Any 10 year old boat may have issues. And what you may consider a issue many others might think its no big deal.
Personally I would never own a new boat ... I like the fact if a boat has some use scars and history when I ram the dock I dont trash a virgin boat...and the fact is you can make the bucks go farther for other things and /or travels.
Hollywood

John

It sounds like you are a smart buyer. Maintain that poise.

Last year we looked at many Nordhavns with offers made. With my very smart friends, professional yards' help and long distance advice, we were able to make offers based upon what we found before survey. The beauty of a Nordhavn and its blue water design subjects it to not cheap remedial actions when problems are found. The same can be said for other high end vessels.

We found, not surprisingly, that the blue water cruised Nordhavns tended to be better looked after than the low hour coastal used ones purchased by not serious (but wealthy) wannabees.

I would not hesitate to buy or consider (again) a Nordhavn, keeping in mind that the used ones are just that, used and sometimes abused. Abuse seems commonly to be lack of use and therefore not having an attentive owner and or reputable yard frequently on board who are intentionally looking for and jumping on problems as they arise.

hollywood8118 said:

Personally I would never own a new boat ... Hollywood

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I'd agree, but with Nordhavn among the few builders who really stand behind their new vessels. This keeps bringing back many repeat buyers moving up the Nordhavn line.

sunchaser said:

I'd agree, but with Nordhavn among the few builders who really stand behind their new vessels. This keeps bringing back many repeat buyers moving up the Nordhavn line.

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I spend a bit of time dabbling in the nordhavn world. There appears to be the tendency to move up the line... but the again the "typical" nordhavn owner is a very competitive business person that has been in a competitive world...thus the need to move up.

The thing about nordhavn's is the ones that have been used to really cruise have been well equipped but may be worn. Which is fine if you don't want a dock queen.
Hollywood

The boat was not officially for sale and I do not know what the owner plans to do next thus the reason to respect his and all other parties privacy. If it was listed in an open forum I would not hesitate to share more information. I hope that helps explain the lack of details on the boat. Thank you

N4061 said:

The boat was not officially for sale and I do not know what the owner plans to do next thus the reason to respect his and all other parties privacy. If it was listed in an open forum I would not hesitate to share more information. I hope that helps explain the lack of details on the boat. Thank you

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Ok, so if it's not even listed, then anonymity is preserved completely, so what's the harm in at least letting us know the sort of model we are talking about - the secrecy, as Hollywood intimated, is almost gettting a bit prescious. They are still just boats, they are not prescient...
I, and no doubt many others, would just like to be able to form some sort of mental picture...most of us probably have dreamt of maybe one day owing a Nordhavn, even if we know it's pie in the sky...

Perhaps you could at least give us the specifics on what it was in the survey that made you walk?

hollywood8118 said:

I spend a bit of time dabbling in the nordhavn world. There appears to be the tendency to move up the line... but the again the "typical" nordhavn owner is a very competitive business person that has been in a competitive world...thus the need to move up. The thing about nordhavn's is the ones that have been used to really cruise have been well equipped but may be worn. Which is fine if you don't want a dock queen. Hollywood

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Have you seen the Hamilton's MVDirona.com blog? Not sure they ever see a dock!

I think they are in a marina at present in Whangarei in NZ.
Cheers
Benn

N4061 said:

This boat was planned to be an interim boat until I retire and then god willing we would like to purchase a boat for full time cruising. The search continues..........

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Ports rot both ships and men and an interim nordhavn live aboard sounds like an expensive and perhaps an elusive path to retirement. Curious to know where your previous nordhavns might be today. Might be interesting to see how well they have aged and at what cost. Btw there was a very nice 2004 50 on display at FLIBS. Expensive but she looked turn key.

Via iPad using Trawler

Peter B said:

Ok, so if it's not even listed, then anonymity is preserved completely, so what's the harm in at least letting us know the sort of model we are talking about - the secrecy, as Hollywood intimated, is almost gettting a bit prescious. They are still just boats, they are not prescient...
I, and no doubt many others, would just like to be able to form some sort of mental picture...most of us probably have dreamt of maybe one day owing a Nordhavn, even if we know it's pie in the sky...

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Reminds me of someone else...

beachbum29 said:

Reminds me of someone else...

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Yup...

HOLLYWOOD

N4061 said:

While we wil not rule out a used boat I think it will need be within a couple years old with little wear. I hope our experience helps others considering a used boat purchase in the near future.

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Heh. I have a survey scheduled next week on a 55 year old boat. Wish me luck!

John

You have now discovered the downside of supplying too much information on the internet. From my standpoint, I would not buy a high end vessel where unacceptable warts and neglect are present. After all, Nordhavns are just expensive toys with some degree of individual circumspection expected. No details regarding your personal reasons for rejection are needed.

sunchaser said:

No details regarding your personal reasons for rejection are needed.

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(Whew!)

John T is a great teacher!

I would like to share with the group that John's rule of checking the engine room and keeping a detailed log/spreadsheet is critically important. It forces one to really get to know the vessel while underway, how various parts of the engine, generator and wing engine sound, feel, smell and look so that very earily variations of "normal" for the boat are picked up before major issues. Combining the physical examination using all senses and recording data using the IR temperature gauge is a perfect way to apply prevention in boat handling. It also goes along with my training as a physician. But most important is that John taught us that when we purchased his N2 and are extremely excited to learn of his next adventure! I wish him the very best and look forward to possibly traveling together one day soon.

Bill

N3 Update - The Clock Is Running

With a new purchase agreement signed and deposit no longer refundable there is a sense of urgency to get this deal completed. No time to for doubts or second guessing, its show time. Today was busy following up with bank and attorney on the LLC. A drive to Sheltor Island to get the insurance started and stop by our old marina to find a slip. While most marina's have slips available it doesn't hurt to walk in and say you have been there twice before and getting ready to return with another Nordhavn. I was in and out in ten minutes with an assigned slip without any paper work or deposit. The crew at Sunroad Marina are great and understand boaters. It was more of a "just get the boat here and we will catch up with the paperwork later". At least one thing is going smooth.

Today also required a decision on the name of the boat so we can provide to the bank. Amazing a bank needs the name of the boat but the LLC doesn't. Our last two boats were named after my wife which can never hurt. This time around she wanted something different so I let her pick the name. She decided on La Tempestad. I'll let our Spanish speaking members provide a translation.

Our target date for completing everything is 11/15/13. There is a lot to get done in a short period of time but I'm sure we will get there.

Later this week I will start to schedule the mechanic and electronics technicians to meet us the day after we take possession to start work on the boat. Then Mary will start redecorating the interior with the same designer we used on the previous boats. Again, this is NOT a large boat so we are not talking about a big project. We want the boat ready for a Thanksgiving Holiday week trip up the coast or possibly to Catalina Island. Hope everyone is enjoying the emotional wave we are on.

John T.

Oh. I guess the deal is back on. Emotional wave, for sure. Hope you've been able to negotiate the details to your satisfaction. My impression was that there were a lot of details. Best of luck.

N4061 said:

While most marina's have slips available it doesn't hurt to walk in and say you have been there twice before and getting ready to return with another Nordhavn. I was in and out in ten minutes with an assigned slip without any paper work or deposit. The crew at Sunroad Marina are great and understand boaters. .

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Glad to see that you are coming home, John. You're absolutely right...SunRoad is the " best! I've tried them all since 1995 and have been at the "Road" for the past 7 years. Fire a rocket if there's anything I can help with.

N3 Update

Today was another high pressure day to get everything complete by next Friday. Even simple things like when to start the insurance has to be vetted through the attorney developing the LLC to confirm if there any legal issues. This evening we signed the LLC documents and tomorrow we sign off the bank documents. Jeff has confirmed he will assist me with picking up the boat next week (assuming all goes well) and get to our marina. Mary and I plan to return on Saturday and spend the weekend aboard. This will be the first time Mary will see the inside of the boat. So far all she has seen is about 100 pictures which Jeff took and visual of the exterior. Again a long story which I will share once we take possession. Jeff and I will hook up within a week or two for some training. Hope all this is helpful to others planning a similar voyage.

Amazing how small the boating world is. Many may have read the post by Bill Krish - owner N4061. Bill and Andrea purchased the boat from us a couple years back in SD when my wife became iii and have traveled as far north as Alaska. They are living our dreams and we could not have been more pleased to see them doing it with N4061. A wonderful and compassionate couple who are now great friends. We look forward to seeing them again soon when they bring the boat south.

Impressive that Bill (wkirsh), buyer of a John T (N4061) previous boat, speaks so well of him and his boating expertise. Both must be doing something right.

N3 - Update 11/8/13

I thought I would start adding dates to our progress reports to help keep track of the events on a time line. Again the intent of sharing this level of detail is to assist others who are thinking about purchasing a boat and may not have gone through the process.

Today I complete the insurance and we now have coverage for a boat we sill don't own. Thinking this item was completed ahead of schedule I found out after reviewing the bank doc.'s that they require the LLC as well as our names on the binder. So we had to email the insurance broker to update the binder next week. With Monday being a holiday I'm getting concerned about completing everything. Another issue today was trying to deposit and wire transfer a larger sum of money the same day. Even with a 30 year relationship with the same bank they said we would have to wait until Tuesday after the large cashier check clears overnight (no hold). Bummer

We also spent an hour this evening signing loan documents in triplicates and writing checks. Tomorrow we visit the notary to complete the signatures and Fed-ex everything back to the bank. Amazing how things have changed since the financial meltdown. I swear there is double the amount of paperwork compared with 2007.

Jeff and I speak a few time a day to insure we are not missing anything. It pays to work with someone who is experienced with these types of transactions and knows what check and ask about.

I also submitted our application for the slip even though we were told not to worry about the paperwork until after we bring the boat in.

I'm sure there were a few other items but I believe those were the major dealings for today. Hopefully everything will go smooth next week since Friday is the deadline to close the deal.

Are we there yet…?
Sorry if everyone else knows, but whats a LLC..? (just a simple expl. will do). Also, as we are nearly there…when can we know what type of Nordy you have bought..?

Limited Liability Company
A noncorporate business whose owners actively participate in the organization's management and are protected against personal liability for the organization's debts and obligations.
The limited liability company (LLC) is a hybrid legal entity that has both the characteristics of a corporation and of a partnership. An LLC provides its owners with corporate-like protection against personal liability. It is, however, usually treated as a noncorporate business organization for tax purposes

It's so much easier to pay cash. The banks via the fed has gone insane.

>>>Then Mary will start redecorating the interior with the same designer we used on the previous boats<<<

I just hope the designer is broadminded enough to work on used boats.

Bob

N# - Update 11/9/13

Saturday was spent at the Fed-Ex office getting $310 of notary signatures. Unbelievable the number of documents requiring notary signatures in triplicate. Times have sure changed since our last boat and that wasn't that long ago. A lot of coordination is required between the broker, bank. attorney, documentation company, buyer and seller at this point. All it takes is one missed signature and everything gets delayed at least two days.

Assuming all goes well we close Thursday and pick up the boat Friday morning. Jeff and I will drive down to SD and try to get the boat in the new slip early so we can leave by noon to beat the traffic north. Mary and I plan to return to the boat Saturday and spend the weekend learning what we just purchased. The funny thing about this purchase is that Mary has not seen the inside of the boat. She was able to make her first drive to SD in over a year and she seen the exterior only when no one was around. Due to her heath issues (a long story) she is relying on Jeff and I to make the right choice and relying on pictures. Again, this purchase is our first step getting back on the water and the reason we are buying a small used boat. If things don't work out we will just turn around and sell the boat in a few months without taking a financial hit. Time will tell but I'm staying optimistic we made the right choice.

Best of luck in getting back aboard, John. I'd say that you've certainly done the majority of it on your terms. An N-40 should provide an opportunity to gain a good perspective on how much of a cruising future you both would like to have. It's a good boat. Sincere congrats. When you can, please include some photos.

N3 Update 11/10/13

Sunday was a quiet day limited to an email from Jeff Merrill of PAE providing an updated time line to closing out the deal which was sent to all the players. I can not express how much we appreciate Jeff's effort's on this purchase and helping us find N3. This brings up something that I plan to expand on later and has to do with the benefits of working with the original boat manufacture when looking for a used boat. The OEM can offer things that brokers just can not obtain. An example is our boat, as luck would have it Jeff sold this exact boat to the original owner and was able to provide all the original documentation, spec's including all options when it was originally ordered. We will have all the information on this used boat as we did on our two new builds. Pretty neat!

Today I also started to build our first Blog. Slow going since I'm not up to level of most kids today with these types of web-sites but going to give it a try. We plan to include all three Nordhavn's on the site to serve as information for others to use. That's all for today, I'm sure tomorrow will have its surprises.

Did anyone translate the name of the boat - La Tempestad?