Hynautic hydraulic engine controls

Not that long ago I got a set (2 engine / 2 station) of Hynautic controls like but not as clean as these for a very good price


(I have an extra 4 head units)

I have swapped all the hynautic 5/16th brass compression fittings to suit nylon hose out with generic ones (Oz prices for Hynautics brass was near $1000 vs $120 for other ), replaced filters and bleeders and have new hose.

I have filled the system with water (it is supposed to be 50/50 glycol water) for testing and flushing and pumped it up to 100psi and pumped and bled and pumped and bled and am slowly getting rid of the crud that is inside the actuators and heads.(rusty coloured watery yuck)

My question is - is there a better fluid that can be used for flushing?

I have sent emails to Hynauitic/Seastar but they haven't replied and I have done the search and found a bit on steering, but nothing on engine controls
Trawler Forum - Search Results

As my system doesnt use hydraulic fluid as such I imagine it needs a different fluid for flushing.

I hope someone has some answers, google doesnt appear to.

Parmenter said:

My question is - is there a better fluid that can be used for flushing?

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Flush with the working fluid. If you use plain water you will just make more yucky looking crud.

Glycol coolant is cheaper than Hynautic parts.

If the thing has rust and crud in it you really ought to take it apart and clean all the moving parts properly and replace seals as required or you will be fighting problems as long as you own it.

A second possibility is to use a small pressure pump to clean flush each part individually , and operate it while its being flushed.

RickB said:

Flush with the working fluid. If you use plain water you will just make more yucky looking crud.

Glycol coolant is cheaper than Hynautic parts.

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Its a flush - the water stays in their for no more than an hour before a new lot goes through.
If I used glycol each time I probably would have thrown away $50 today. If using the hynauitic stuff probably $500

If the thing has rust and crud in it you really ought to take it apart and clean all the moving parts properly and replace seals as required or you will be fighting problems as long as you own it.

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May be what I have to do by the looks.

Flush it once with clean glycol coolant. Filter the glycol through a cheese cloth. Observe and save crud 1. Flush with filtered coolant one more time. Observe crud 2 and compare to 1. Flush with clean coolant and filter again through clean cheese cloth and compare crud 3 to 2. If not getting a lot less crud at each step, take apart per RickB suggestion. If much cleaner repeat until clean.

Clean exterior with lots of WD 40 and a toothbrush to remove dirt from small shafts and rotating/sliding parts. Also, insure reservoir tank is clean internally.

Strip those dirty parts and clean them or you may simply result in spreading that crud throughout the system and end up spending far, far more than the $50 you are worried about + the time to redo it all.

A flush is meant to clear old fluids and minor dirt left from the installation but if there is major junk you may be fighting a losing battle.

I like Sunchasers suggestion + as an effectiveness comparison between flushes and material saving. Have you any coffee filters to use along with the cheese cloth. The cheese cloth will catch the coarse stuff, the coffee filters the finer stuff. They are fine enough to get a lot. Even the paint strainers will help.
Even an old filter head with a clean filter on it and pour the flush through although you won't be able to see what it catches.

Having a result now.
System is maintaining pressure and controls are working, though one set is a a little stiff, but it does seem to be freeing up with use.
The water that is coming out when opening the bleeding ports is definitely getting cleaner as well.

When I am happy with it i'll drain the water and fill and charge with the glycol mix and let that sit.

I should point out that this is a bench test to iron out the bugs and is not currently in vessel.

Big win for me - System presents very well and owes me about $500 and to buy it new in Australia would cost around

306538 Hynautic twin engine, twin station, ball handle, dual mount plate
$15,936.00
Hynautic Hydraulic Engine Control Kits - Hydraulic Controls & Accessories - Engine Controls - Engine & Maintenance - Shop Online | BLA Australia

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I imagine they dont sell many at those prices

When I am happy with it i'll drain the water and fill and charge with the glycol mix and let that sit.

Sooner the better , the antifreez is not to stop internal icing it is to lubricate and rust/corrosion proof the many various metal internal parts.

C lectric said:

Strip those dirty parts and clean them

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Yep, spent most of yesterday doing just that and will do the rest today and tomorrow.
While I had clean water coming out on the bleed I still had a sticky slave or maybe head unit so figure a dill valve (tyre valve) had something blocking it.
When I stripped it there was a fair bit of crud internally so I am glad it is out and the plus is that I know now whats involved and its not very involved at all.
In fact, I was surprised at how simple the system is, just a piston, a cog a few O-rings and couple of tyre valves.

Glad to hear you are cleaning the parts.

It sounds like you did get a great deal. Now it will continue to be when you get it on the boat.

Have fun and good luck

FF said:

$15,936.00

And you worry about a gallon of $13.00 antifreez?

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Well I didn't pay $15936 did I, but the point is, why waste money buying something for a short term test when a free product will do?

Water was suggested for testing by hydraulic experts here, they could have easily sold me the glycol mix.
Seeing as they do this stuff for a job I would think they should be better qualified than an anonymous internet poster.

Ouch!

We have hydraulic experts here on the forum as well.....Hell, it's the internet. You can be anybody you want to be!!

Forkliftt said:

Hell, it's the internet. You can be anybody you want to be!!

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Aint that the truth!

Well, after much dicking around I have a mostly wonderfully clean and fully serviced system that should be working perfectly, right?

WRONG

After several bouts of part swapping I have come to the conclusion that there is an issue with one of the STV-10 lockout valves.



which in real life look like this



I took them off of the ends of the slaves and reconnected the system and it worked flawlessly, so obviously this is where the fault lies, but apparently the STV-10's are needed to stop throttle creep so cant be left off..

Does anyone know how to get these apart?
There is nothing in the manual about it, the two aluminium nuts on the end come off and there are poppet balls in them and inside the block there are brass and O rings visible, but no indication as to how to get that assembly out.
A tap with a wooden dowel and hammer didnt produce a result.

You will probably find that the crud and corrosion has had its way with the valves. If you can't get it apart without further damage, a $100 replacement is probably the best way to go.

RickB said:

You will probably find that the crud and corrosion has had its way with the valves.

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The brass was still shiny and no corrosion was visible.
I think there is a schraedder (tyre) valve inside the brass bit that needs replacement, but how to get the brass bit out to access the valve?

If you can't get it apart without further damage, a $100 replacement is probably the best way to go.

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Try $310 here

Lock Out Valve - Hydraulic Controls & Accessories - Engine Controls - Engine & Maintenance - Shop Online | BLA Australia

Your $100 from the US will probably cost me about $80 in freight on top and a few weeks

There may be a snap ring if you are lucky. There may be a threaded retainer with a castle type cuts on it that requires a special spanner or some ingenuity on your part. If you can't find a parts diagram on the net you might call someone who overhauls these things and offer to buy him a cup of coffee for his knowledge.

Darylat8750 said:

There may be a snap ring if you are lucky. There may be a threaded retainer with a castle type cuts on it that requires a special spanner or some ingenuity on your part.

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No, there isnt any evidence of snap rings or special spanners
It really looks like it is a just pushed in

If you can't find a parts diagram on the net you might call someone who overhauls these things and offer to buy him a cup of coffee for his knowledge.

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Well thats the thing, in Australia I doubt there would be anyone.
The guys who sell them here seem pretty clueless as to how stuff works and I haven't had any replies from the head office in the US either

Give these guys a try ...


DCV10 Lock Valve

http://www.hydraforce.com/Directnl/Dvpocklo.htm#DCV10

Take the information here and go visit a hydraulic shop.

RickB said:

Give these guys a try ...


DCV10 Lock Valve

HydraForce Hydraulic Cartridge Directional Pilot-Operated Check Valves, Lock Valves

Take the information here and go visit a hydraulic shop.

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Thanks Rick, different part number but "appears" to be visually the same.
Off to Pirtek I go.

Parmenter said:

Off to Pirtek I go.

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And they were clueless as well
as were 3 other hydraulic/valve places nearby

This is what it looks like inside and the brass/Oring is what I want to remove.

Its the same on both ends

The only suggestion they had was to belt it out, which I have already tried
I tried that again on both of them and they gave no hint of moving.

Parmenter said:

The only suggestion they had was to belt it out, which I have already tried

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If "belt it out" means to whack it with something to try and drive it out the other side then I think that will be a waste of time and damage it.

The pilot valve you see is almost certainly a push fit into the bottom of the bore which holds the ball and spring. Try slamming the body down on a hard flat surface so that inertia of the brass seat breaks it loose. Sort of like an inertia bullet puller ... Midsouth Shooters - Inertia Bullet Puller - YouTube

It might help to heat the valve body to expand it a bit and maybe break the corrosion bond that is causing the problem. It also looks like the O-rings may have swollen from a solvent or incompatible fluid, that will stick the bits together as well.

Thanks Rick, I'll try that today

Parmenter said:

Thanks Rick, I'll try that today

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OK, Orings had to be picked out in bits, they had sort of glued themselves in and didnt want to come out without a fight.

Tried Ricks method above and it didnt work so tried a tap on the alloy block and a bit popped out.
Other end had the same result (Ricks method must have loosened then for me )

As you can see in the picture, there is a step inside, so it was never going to get punched through as was recommended by the local hydraulic boys



Once those bits were out there was another brass shaft inside and that pushed through, but there is no crud in there, so that section didnt need to be pulled apart.
But it is nice to know how it is done and nice to know that I can service it anywhere if I have the right Orings (I have several spares of each Oring, Brass fitting and olive used)

The bits from inside



Last night I had an email from Teleflex US with a PDF.
It shows what bits are supposed to be in there.



None of mine had spring # 3 , though my parts do have the receptacle for it
And I dont have Oring #9 , so its hard to imagine an effective seal as the ball would be sitting on top of the pin.

I am waiting for a reply back from teleflex , (maybe earlier models were different) before putting it back together.

The pin sticking out for where Oring#9 is "supposed" to be

That assembly is about 1 3/4 inches long

Don't forget to polish off all that corrosion before you reassemble the valve.

Try to smile when you pay $100 for $.30 worth of springs and a couple of ball bearings.

RickB said:

Don't forget to polish off all that corrosion before you reassemble the valve.

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Done and acid washed the alloy

Try to smile when you pay $100 for $.30 worth of springs and a couple of ball bearings.

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There was no smiling on fittings here.
In Oz, those parts are considerably more than the US.
$27 each for balls
$27 each for springs.

But I did manage to get the sizes for the springs so $5 each for S/S at the hydraulic shop and $1.35 for the S/S balls

Every other part was equally outrageous here which is why I have swapped out many bits with same same but not Hynautics.

You are the man.

I'm struggling with this system now. Can I ask you some questions?

Parmenter said:

Having a result now.
System is maintaining pressure and controls are working, though one set is a a little stiff, but it does seem to be freeing up with use.
The water that is coming out when opening the bleeding ports is definitely getting cleaner as well.

When I am happy with it i'll drain the water and fill and charge with the glycol mix and let that sit.

I should point out that this is a bench test to iron out the bugs and is not currently in vessel.

Big win for me - System presents very well and owes me about $500 and to buy it new in Australia would cost around


I imagine they dont sell many at those prices

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Regarding Parmenter.
THis thread is now 9 years old and I doubt he is aboard the forum.

What you can try as an extra is send him a PM. The site will send him an internal email if he listed an email address.

Click on his avatar name and a drop down box will show up. One or two down is the
Send a Private Message.


Good luck