A household fridge running on solar panels

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Parmenter

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2013
Messages
204
Location
Australia
Vessel Make
49ft 11inch catamaran-trawler
Its something I want to do simply because I want a reasonable amount of refrigeration and I dont want the expense or weight of a dedicated diesel genset.

Many say it cant be done, some on other forums are saying they are doing it now as liveaboards, but with 2 small fridge/freezer

A boat that I was/am looking at has a decent sized fridge freezer and makes the claim



Refrigeration Domestic 220 volt fridge freezer
Four large solar panels individually managed run the whole ship through a Mastervolt 2500 watt inverter/charger. No need to run the genset.

Can it be done - is anyone doing it?
If so, what sort of gear have you onboard to do it?
This vessel has no shortage of roof for more panels if needed and I would rather go this way than get a 12 volt marine fridge at far greater expense or drop $5 to $15k on a diesel Genny.
 
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Yes it can be done, but....

Couple of comments. You need to know what the 24 hr draw is for the refrigeration. On Bay Pelican with two domestic type units (110v we are North American) we used approximately 400 amp hrs per day or refrigeration. An enormous load.

Also what is the size an output of the solar panels.

I have a friend with 6 panels - Kyocera 150 watt - on his trawler. Able to go day after day with just the panels for power. However he is at 15 degrees north whereas you are 27 degrees south and thus my friend has more sun on the panels. His refrigeration is not as much of a draw as was mine.

Noble goal doing without a generator, but if the boat market in Australia is anything like North American you could have your pick of boats that already have a generator and have a marine type refrigeration system and won't run into this issue when you eventually resell the boat.

Good luck, you will enjoy regardless of which way you go.

Marty
 
Yes it can be done, but....

Couple of comments. You need to know what the 24 hr draw is for the refrigeration. On Bay Pelican with two domestic type units (110v we are North American) we used approximately 400 amp hrs per day or refrigeration. An enormous load.

Also what is the size an output of the solar panels.

I have a friend with 6 panels - Kyocera 150 watt - on his trawler. Able to go day after day with just the panels for power.

Thanks
Not sure why the picture I included didnt load(I was on mod preview) but here it is again, maybe
18_3.jpg

As you can see its a pretty decent size.
Panels on the roof dont look like much not that you can see much
19_3.jpg


However he is at 15 degrees north whereas you are 27 degrees south and thus my friend has more sun on the panels. His refrigeration is not as much of a draw as was mine.
I plan on being mostly 17Deg - equator - 11 deg, so should get plenty of sun also and, as you can see there is plenty of spare panel space.

but if the boat market in Australia is anything like North American you could have your pick of boats that already have a generator and have a marine type refrigeration system and won't run into this issue when you eventually resell the boat.
Unfortunately the pickings over here compared to the US are pretty slim and several times more expensive.
Good marine refrigeration+ economical diesel in a 50ft + vessel is going to be the best part of $500k upwards.
 
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Its something I want to do simply because I want a reasonable amount of refrigeration and I dont want the expense or weight of a dedicated diesel genset.
.
At the outset let me say that I have no generator or solar panels on my boat. I simply don't need them. If my electrical loads were such that I did need additional power generation, I'd have a diesel generator. Yes, it would be great to separate completely from mechanical generated power but at this point in time (technology) it's mighty expensive (not to mention cumbersome & downright ugly) to pull it off.

I looked at a Tesla the other day and marveled at the technology that the car displayed. Truly, a very beautiful car and very exciting to say the least. At this point in time, however, I'd rather have a high quality hybrid (and I do) that has no limitations on miles traveled in a day. (no need to stop for charging) If the day ever comes, in my lifetime, that there are no limits on how far an all electric vehicle can travel, I'll have one.

I think solar cells are fine for topping off batteries but to have enough of them to run a boat 24/7 that has normal size household appliances, makes no sense to me.

As was stated before, know what your daily electrical demands are and install a generator that will supply those loads. :blush:
 
I'm curious...

This Fridge/Freezer...

What are the running and surge amp draws?
 
I ran an analysis of my largest,oldest,upright,120VAC refrigerator over a 24 hour period.
I drew 1.5 KWH.

At 12 VDC with about a 20% add for inverter being inefficient my SWAG is somewhere around 150 Amp DC to run the fridge.
 
Mate,
I run a 90 lt all frig and a 90 lt all freezer plus 2 x 110 lt Eva Kool frig/freezers all run of my 240 V system even though the Eva Kools are 12 volts they run with the transformers.
See my Tidahapah refit thread re stick down solar panels, they are terrific, a little more expensive but the area is still walkable..
Insequent who has just imported his boat into Brisbane is all solar and no gen set. he is over 50' so well worth talking to him re this and he is a local.
Cheers
Benn
 
Why not consider a propane refrigerator/freezer.
I had one on a previous boat that worked flawlessly until I went into another country - seems the LPG is not the same and its stopped working.
No refrigeration and very few areas with ice for a month in a land of 30degree plus temps and warm beer, never again.
 
I ran an analysis of my largest,oldest,upright,120VAC refrigerator over a 24 hour period.
I drew 1.5 KWH.

At 12 VDC with about a 20% add for inverter being inefficient my SWAG is somewhere around 150 Amp DC to run the fridge.

Thanks
 
Mate,
I run a 90 lt all frig and a 90 lt all freezer plus 2 x 110 lt Eva Kool frig/freezers all run of my 240 V system even though the Eva Kools are 12 volts they run with the transformers.
See my Tidahapah refit thread re stick down solar panels, they are terrific, a little more expensive but the area is still walkable..
Insequent who has just imported his boat into Brisbane is all solar and no gen set. he is over 50' so well worth talking to him re this and he is a local.
Cheers
Benn
And a big thanks, real life examples and thieving of part numbers is exactly what I am after - no guesswork involved.:thumb:
 
IF you can fit a propane unit , that is the BEST,

however the tossing of the house fridge and installation of a modern DC fridge should cut your DC loads at least in half.

Even better if you can increase the thickness of the insulation by glueing on 1 or 2 inches on the sides.

A modern fridge is cheap compared to a diesel noisemaker.
 
My boat's previous owner set the boat up for 4 months of independent anchoring in the Bahamas each year. That included a combo of solar and wind power, but in particular, a propane fridge. I'm adding more solar now and was just about to trade-off my propane fridge for a 12 volt unit. Now, I'm not so sure.

Ultimately, I love the idea of being at anchor and my solar taking care of my fridge/freezer, lights, battery charging and occasional pump cycles. My fridge is a 110V -Propane operation unit, and I wonder how much juice I loose by transforming the 12 volt through the invertor. If I had my druthers, I'd want a 12V - Propane unit. Money, Money, Money.
 
Mate,
Be very careful of a propane fridge in Aus as it will be extremely hard to get a gas certificate which ultimately effects your resale and immediately your insurance.
Cheers
Benn
 
Oh yeah, Tidahapah has a good point. I should have added that here in the Americas (including the islands), Propane is readily available, even at places that don't have something else. It's a convenient energy here.
 
The inverter efficientcy varies by the load on it. My Prosine 1800W is rated at 90% at 2/3 of its rated output. You can look your model up online generally.
 
however the tossing of the house fridge and installation of a modern DC fridge should cut your DC loads at least in half.
In Australia, a modern DC fridge will cost several thousands of dollars and still look like it was made in the 1960's


A modern fridge is cheap compared to a diesel noisemaker.
A modern AC fridge is far cheaper than a modern 1960's look DC fridge and solar makes no noise ;)
 
A modern AC fridge is far cheaper than a modern 1960's look DC fridge and solar makes no noise ;)
But you have to feed it ac. Most carfridge type units, typically with Danfoss compressors, run on both ac and dc. Moorebank Refrigeration in Sydney make a range of marine fridges resembling domestic ones. They made the 12v under settee fridge in my boat, it`s still going after 32 years.
 
On my 53 ft Pilothouse, i just installed another 200 watts of flexible solar panels to increase the 380 watts to atotal of 580 watts.

I run all LED lights, 12 volt stainless steel vitrifrigio 210 l fridge plus another 80 lt evacool downstairs in the genset room.

My total amp usage each day is around 250 depending on how many cups of tea my wife has. I have a 2500 watt inverter. My house bank is 800 amp hours.

My panels gave me 160 amps this week from day light to sun down. I was testing the new panels to see how they went. The run through a new 50 amp digital regulator. I upgraded all my wiring to accept the new amps also.

At best i think i should get close to my max amp draw for the whole boat for a day on a nice sunny day in Summer here on the Sunshine Coast.

I also have a genset which powers the cooking gear when we are not using the BBQ. I usually run the genset an hour a day when anchored to boost any charging, keep the 240 volt hotwater system hot and run the dishwasher.

All up, i figure this is very economical living No one can live for free.

Bo
 
The RV propane fridges do not work at all well on DC.

Propane works because the huge power draw that would kill a battery bank to keep the reefer cold is a snap for the propane to create. Even tho absorbtion systems are less efficient that DC variable speed compressors the propane has the energy to operate most large reefers for a month on a single 20# bottle.

The DC heater is about 30A , as many RV only have car alts , and is used as a keep cool for short periods of time.

The propane must be secured in a filling station and the DC is keep cold for that time.

In a campsite 120V is used as reefer power , which is almost as powerful (and free from a power pole), using an inverter to create 120V would be more inefficient than using a Danfoss 12V real DC fridge.

The reefer is by far the largest power hog that will be operating 24/7 for the duration of the cruise.

Solve the reefer problem and the rest is EASY!!!
 
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Propane refrigerators are like anchors and the twin versus single engine discussion. They will be discussed/debated forever.

The advantages of a propane refrigerator are obvious. Where propane is available the electrical consumption is significantly reduced.

The downside of these refrigerators is a safety issue. Propane refrigerators are popular in North American among RVs. The difference with an RV and a boat is that leaking propane will spill out in an RV and will collect in the bilge for a boat. Normal use of a propane stove/oven on a boat is occasional for perhaps an hour or so a day. Usually with someone watching. The 24/7 use of propane for a refrigerator means any leak in the system will likely result in disaster.

Anyway those are a couple of the issues as frequently discussed. I know boaters with propane refrigerators and others who feel they are unsafe. You must make your own decision.

Marty
 
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...... using an inverter to create 120V would be more inefficient than using a Danfoss 12V real DC fridge.
I can't confirm that the above statement is true, as what I know about electricity can be put in a thimble. What I can confirm is that the PO set up my boat as described above by FF. I have a 3000W inverter that runs all my 120v needs. He replaced the 12v/120v frig with a cheap Sears 120v unit. Along with an ice maker (also 120v) and no generator, I can easily go a couple of days without any need to recharge the house batts. If more marina hopping or short cruises are in my future, I'll add a Honda or Yamaha small generator.
 
>using an inverter to create 120V would be more inefficient than using a Danfoss 12V real DC fridge.<

ON A PROPANE fridge we were discussing using 120V !.

The old 12/120 camping fridges (like a Norcold) were fine in there era.

It is possible that a 30 year newer sears cheapo could use less juice than one of these older units, even with inverter loss.

A MODERN DC unit , with a modern DC computer controlled compressor will use less juice than the inverter + sears cheapo.

>I know boaters with propane refrigerator and others who feel they are unsafe. You must make your own decision. <

The difficulty in installing a propane unit in an existing boat , is that the unit must be in a deep (at least 6 inch) tray that is gravity drained to outside above the WL.

Impossible with some galley down builds , fairly easy if the base of the fridge is high enough from the WL.
 
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The difficulty in installing a propane unit in an existing boat , is that the unit must be in a deep (at least 6 inch) tray that is gravity drained to outside above the WL.

Hmmm. I didn't know this and it makes absolute sense. My refer is mounted atop a box built for several anti-siphon loops in the machinery space beneath. It is, however, well above the waterline. I could manage the construction of such a pan and drain overboard without too much problem. That's a very sound safety precaution. I suppose a downward angle on the drain overboard would be most preferable as well, yes?
 
Solve the reefer problem and the rest is EASY!!!
That is so right. And why people go the propane route.
Running a big fridge on AC from panels is a huge ask. In practice I`m ok if I get 50% of theoretical panel output. There must be some huge battery banks out there for it to work.
 
That is so right. And why people go the propane route.
Running a big fridge on AC from panels is a huge ask. In practice I`m ok if I get 50% of theoretical panel output. There must be some huge battery banks out there for it to work.

On cruisers forum there is a guy on a performance 44ft sailing cat, so not a huge roof space and weight would be an issue so it wouldn't be an overly heavy battery bank either.
He says:

To add some real world experience as opposed to ignorant monocular ranting, we've now been running a domestic fridge and freezer off an inverter for two years, with no problems.

Fridge and freezer cost just over $500 Au for the pair. 1500 Watt PSW inverter cost $310 each. I have two, in case one fails. (I also use the spare to run the breadmaker, a washing machine and any power tools etc..)

Power consumption is a bit higher, but not massively so compared to my last boat's marine fridge. (When it worked) I can run the entire boat, including watermaker, breadmaker etc, off the 600Watt solar array, with MPPT controller.

I've been told most 12 volt refrigeration compressors use capilliary evaporators, while 240 volt use thermal expansion valves, which are more efficient. Which might explain the small difference in power consumption. Don't know how factual this is though...

And the whole lot was cheaper than buying the guts of a marine fridge, and having to build my own cabinet around it. And then I'd still have to find the amps to run it.

I can't say whether this setup would work in a mono. Not much about them does seem to work, so possibly this type of refrigeration wouldn't either.

Flat batteries overnight? Not even close.
Can a Household Refrigerator Work on a Sailboat ? - Page 4 - Cruisers & Sailing Forums
 
Some numbers from Bay Pelican:

Two 1999 Subzero under-counter units, 4.5 cubic feet each, one refrigerator, one freezer. 24 hr usage approximately 400 amp hours, based on Kill a Watt readings of the 110 volt ac usage.

Replaced with two Isotherm 110 volt/12 volt units with Danfoss compressors. Usuage approximately 160+ amp hours based on ammeter readings and some guess work for the 110 volt usage during the 3/4 hour the generator is on.

Two units combined draw between 3 amps and 8.5 amps 12 volt DC depending on whether one of both compressors are on.

Note the ambient temperature is usually in the low 80s F, high 20s C. The Isotherm freezer is slightly smaller than the Subzero was.

For someone living at anchor, as we do, this was an enormous improvement.

Marty
 
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For folks with daily noisemaker hours a large ,,engine driven compressor or 240V large compressor with TX valves will freeze a eutetic plate ....IF the box it is in has good insulation.

This is the old sailboat method , and does work great but there are downsides.

Usually the box must be custom built top loading to get 4-6 inches of good freon blown insulation.

4-6 inches of insulation makes the box smaller inside , so a larger area to build the box is required.
The eutetic plates are frequently 2 ft square and 3 or so inches thick, which eats more internal room.

Our performance on out 90/90 is it takes 2 hours of engine (Volvo MD 3-B) time to bring both the freezer and fridge plates to proper temperature , about -10F in the freezer to freeze 0-F deg plates.

This lasts 4 days , so every 3 days we change location with at least 2 hours of engine time.
AS I refuse to idle the engine to death , if we wish to remain in an area we buoy the anchor with the dink and simply cruise the local area under power.

All this is heavy , compressor , heat exchanger and multiple eutetic plates , but so are multiple battery banks.

There is NO sound from the brine solution melting in the plates , so its silent boat as soon as the engine is secured .

For someone with experience the entire system can be home brewed , should initial cost be an objection.
 
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Parmenter,
It can be done but YOU MUST KNOW how much power the fridge PLUS all the other loads that you expect to run will use.

I think one of the very first things you should do is purchase and install a SOC meter and get it going immediately. There are other ways to estimate real power useage but this thing will tell you without all the estimates. If the fridge, your 120Vac unit is only on 120V when at the dock then another purchase might be a KILL A WATT meter. P3 International P4400 Kill A Watt Electricity Usage Monitor - Amazon.com

Then you will have a good reading and using the results of both as required you can come up with a plan.

If you are currently running the fridge from an inverter run from the batteries then the SOC will give you what you need. If you run the fridge separately then both may be required and then do the calculations to figure all out.

A story I've told before but here goes again. A friend, a retired EE, set up his boat to do without a gen. He does carry a 2K watt Honda for emergencies but seldom uses it.
3X 135 w solar panels run his boat and by 14:00 hr on a sunny summer day here in B.C. Canada his batteries are recharged. His panels are flat mounted with no provision for a tilt to follow the sun which in most cases at anchor is useless.

He has a 12vdc full size single wide combo fridge/freezer fridge and a 12vdc Waeco chest freezer. Both use the Danfoss compressor, the BD35 which when running draw about 4.0 - 4.2A. I don't know what the duty cycle is but I would guess based on my Danfoss , in hot weather about 60%.

He uses 6 X golf cart batteries for a bank of about 660A/Hrs. They have all the other stuff aboard , water pumps, lighting, radio, and whatever else they need. The system keeps up as long as they get the sun each day.
I BELIEVE they can actually go 2 days if one is cloudy because of course the panels still pick up enough to get through to the third day. After that they may need to run the boat or the gen. On a cloudy day, not rainy, he still gets 20-40% charge, I believe, but it is down, depending on cloud density.

I should note that he did things a bit differently from many. His systems panels are wired in series so the panel set sends a nominal 36volts to the controller. He bought the controller of course to take that into account + it self adjusts for voltage.

Read his thread Albin Owners Group • View topic - Solar Panels

It's on the Albin forums. You should not need to sign up just to read the post.

Your useage may be different so YOU need to find out how much power the fridge uses for real, allow for ~ 90% only inverter efficiency, and how much other power the rest of the equipment you need to run uses. The SOC meter and if needed the K a W meter. He did this after the first years use so he had a good idea what was going on + he had that SOC meter as a big help.

Then decide how many days you want to be able or need to go without running the boat or a gen. You must take into account those cloudy days. That can be done by adding another panel to whatever you think is needed, extra battery capacity or both. Both would be better of course but I realize cost is also a factor. Initially batts. I think if you have the space and purchase a controller that can take extra panels over the initial purchase. Of course you must have the space for both batts and panels.

He used 135W panels but there is no reason a different capacity panel could not do the same. He had the area to cover atop his Bimini cover and the 135 were perfect and covered all available space. If you have more space then even better. You can go longer if the SYSTEM is thought out and put together correctly.

Your specific fridge will have a huge amount to do with this. Poor insulation, typically house fridges are not as electrically efficient ,total watts used, as dedicated boat fridges, poor ventiation to get rid of heat where the fridge is mounted but it can be done.

For the system overall though one of the best things to do is reduce electrical load. LED lighting will help a lot. A small muffin type fan to evacuate the fridge cavity cast off heat. Set it up so it runs only when the fridge runs. If the fridge can't get rid of that heat it can't cool the interior and it will run and run and run.
 
IF the panels are going on a Bimini mount , some are dual surface and will put out juice from reflected sun light UNDER the panel.
 

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