Redesigning the Pilgrim 40 Trawler / Canal Boat

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Inductive Cooking

The stack is the propane locker.

I want to have a serious look at 'inductive cooking' as opposed to gas. While I much prefer gas over electric cooktops, I think this relatively new 'inductive cooking tech' has a lot to offer. I wonder what the current draw on these inductive units is?,... and if they could be powered by an inverter??

I myself would seriously consider NOT putting an oven on my vessel.....just don't use one very much at this older age. I can cook most things with the stovetop and microwave. Besides the oven takes up a considerable amount of potential cabinet storage space, boat ovens are relatively expensive, and the exhaust from a flame units contributes to lots of condensation potentials within the interior.
 
Beat you to it. We have a combination microwave/convection oven with an induction range stowed below.

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We pull out the range when we want to use it. 15 amps maximum draw.

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We replaced the oven with a dishwasher with range over it and the microwave with a convection oven/ microwave. We don't have a pilgrim though. Don't miss the original oven at all.
 
NuWave Induction Cooktop

Beat you to it. We have a combination microwave/convection oven with an induction range stowed below.

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We pull out the range when we want to use it. 15 amps maximum draw.

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That's a nice option. Then the cooktop doesn't even have to occupy counter space when its not in use.

I had recently seen this TV ad for the NuWave unit, and thought one might have either two or even three of these arranged in formation where the normal cooktop unit would be.

Professional - Precise - Safe Efficient - NuWave PIC As Seen on TV

Your 2-burner unit looks even better. What model is it?
 
Fantail Stern

I got to spend a few hours at Trawlerfest in Balt this past week. I wasn't impressed with what I saw in general,....certainly not anything as classic looking as the Pilgrim.

But there was one vessel there that did get a lot of oohs & aahs :thumb:, particularly from the ladies. It was the fantail stern on a Jay Benford designed vessel.

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.....too bad I didn't get a better shot of the seating area in that stern

1998 Benford Design Cascade Classic Custom - Boats.com
 
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Hello Brian, Did you get to board Nonesuch when you were at Trawlerfest? The reason for asking is we are thinking of making a trip down to see her. We are being told she's a really clean boat. Any info would be appreciated.
 
.certainly not anything as classic looking as the Pilgrim.

The Pilgrim stern looks fine , but for a real cruiser the Tug round stern works , the Pilgrim wont.

Those that frequent marinas know how tight many can be.

The ability to effortlessly back against a piling or sea wall , turn the vessel and proceed is not often required, but when it is its a God send.

Form follows function, at least it used to.
 
Hello Brian, Did you get to board Nonesuch when you were at Trawlerfest? The reason for asking is we are thinking of making a trip down to see her. We are being told she's a really clean boat. Any info would be appreciated.
Yes I did get aboard her, and yes she was really clean. But I did not do any complete inspection, just a quick look.

BTW, somehow I used the same photo twice in that posting above. here is the one other one I had of the stern
 

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Thanks Brian, Appreciate the info and if I can ask one more question how dod you find getting aboard from the pier. The boat was build on the Benford 37 sailboat hull with reduced keel. One of the few things I would have issue with is the choice of engine. The boat really doesn't need a 100 Hp turbo Yanmar but still a really nice boat. Thanks!
 
.certainly not anything as classic looking as the Pilgrim.

The Pilgrim stern looks fine , but for a real cruiser the Tug round stern works , the Pilgrim wont.

Those that frequent marinas know how tight many can be.

The ability to effortlessly back against a piling or sea wall , turn the vessel and proceed is not often required, but when it is its a God send.

Form follows function, at least it used to.

The Pilgrim HAS a round stern.

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Induction Range

The induction range is from True Induction..... http://www.trueinduction.com/dualburner.aspx

The boat came to us with a Force 10 propane unit. It is now living out its last days as an outdoor stove in somebodies back yard.
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With new solid surface counter tops we have more counter space.

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The region the stove occupied has become storage. There are now matching mahogany doors that cover the drawers.

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Not only round, but with a proper rubrail around the whole boat too! Love these boats. Too bad they didn't build that many.
 
Aft Deck

I very much like the aft deck of the original Pilgrim design. I like its size, and the fact that it is at the same level as the saloon. I believe that makes it all the more usable and utilized. Here are a few photos I've collected from some of the fleet of Pilgrims. Would love to have more.
Aft Deck, Von Fyhren.jpg

Olive Oyl aft deck.jpg

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Odyssey aft deck.jpg

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This saloon-aftdeck combination, in lieu the often seen aft stateroom with very small aft deck of many trawlers designs, is a very appealing configuration for a liveaboard vessel.
 
Too Slow?....Marketable?

... Love these boats. Too bad they didn't build that many.

I've cruised at 6 mph and at 60 mph. I prefer the latter if somebody else is paying for the fuel!

One of my primary goals in this redesign project is to see what the most reasonable price is that this vessel could be reintroduced into production. My hope is to cut down significantly the man-hrs to put one of these vessels together, and concurrently keep most production in the USA.

The BIG question remains, is there a market for such a vessel? I know the looks of the vessel has it share of admirers. But I gathered a number of hints that this vessel would not have that great of appeal, bottom line, because of its limited displacement speed??

Look at the Nordic Tug and the Krogen Express. Both seem to 'market' to the faster portion of trawlers buyers. Is it a question of just putting a larger HP engine in it and displaying higher speeds above those normal hull displacement speeds?

Are the full retirement folks the ones that are willing to accept displacement speed (and economy), while the other weekend cruisers need a bit more speed to widen their short time usage??
 
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All I know is that "modern and with it" is always very soon passe, while classic is timeless.
 

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IF the retired set comes from a sail background , low speed expectations are the norm and low fuel consumption would be expected.

With many 40 ft sail hulls providing 6 1/2 to 7K cruise (called 8mph in the ditch) and fuel burn at about 1 GPH, a 3GPH boat at basically the same speed will be acceptable , but I think 15GPH for 15 MPH will be a really hard sell.

The gin palace , summer dockside cottage folks might be willing to pay extra to get home quickly , but most would simply reduce their operating range so they are the same numbers of hours from home.

These boats do offer a grand living style and I believe extra beam would make them easier to sell than a monster motor..
 
IF the retired set comes from a sail background , low speed expectations are the norm and low fuel consumption would be expected.

With many 40 ft sail hulls providing 6 1/2 to 7K cruise (called 8mph in the ditch) and fuel burn at about 1 GPH, a 3GPH boat at basically the same speed will be acceptable , but I think 15GPH for 15 MPH will be a really hard sell.

The gin palace , summer dockside cottage folks might be willing to pay extra to get home quickly , but most would simply reduce their operating range so they are the same numbers of hours from home.

These boats do offer a grand living style and I believe extra beam would make them easier to sell than a monster motor..

Couldn't agree more, the market is for folks that come from sail as well as retired with more time for long distance as well as efficiency lovers. Pleasure boats need to make you happy and appeal to your eye, if you love classic lines and good looks in a boat the Pilgrim can push those buttons.

My better half and I are both in our early 50's and were looking longer term then some. We bought Firefly because we fell in love with what the boat can do and how it makes us feel. I still look back at least once walking away from her and my wife remarked just the other day how the boats makes her as happy as a little house in the woods.

A very real fact that was also considered is that diesel fuel will never go down in price and most likely double in price over the next 5-10 years. The 15+ gph crowd may find they may have many decisions to make at some point. You have already seen a drastic drop in price on fuel hungry boats. It is my understanding that for the average boater fuel costs are a small part of the cost of ownership, however for the distiance cruser the get very real day to day.

We hope to be able to still fulfill our dream in retirement of making the "loop" and going places at our 1.4 gph cruse speed.

One "interesting" side of this boat is the attention we get wherever we go. We feel like movie stars with all the pictures taken of us when underway, and at the dock we always seen to attract attention, perhaps it's my beautiful wife.

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Like the Pilgrim, classic good looks. :thumb:
 
>A very real fact that was also considered is that diesel fuel will never go down in price and most likely double in price over the next 5-10 years<

Sorry but when GB simply said he would allow exploration on the East coast (not yet drilling) the price of fuel went from $4.25 to $2.25 in a few weeks.

The USA is AWASH with energy, fuel fracked oil and gas , coal (400year supply) and shale oil.Along with both coasts and the un-drilled half of the GOM.

IF out masters allow it ,the USA will be awash with cheap oil , and the trend to bring loads of production back to the USA will continue , because of cheaper energy. Great for boat sales!!!

The energy is there , we just need to convince our rulers to allow us to use it.

A Buck a gallon will take longer , but $2.00 is easy to see .
 
All I know is that "modern and with it" is always very soon passe, while classic is timeless.
I wonder what that is on the fwd deck of that photo you posted,....a part of the boat, or just something being transported?
 

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I wonder what that is on the fwd deck of that photo you posted,....a part of the boat, or just something being transported?


Forward seat with folding backrest under cover, or the older style anchor rode locker with windless mounted on top. The davit was an option to allow easier retrieval of heavy anchors, or full crab pots.
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too slow?

The BIG question remains, is there a market for such a vessel? I know the looks of the vessel has it share of admirers. But I gathered a number of hints that this vessel would not have that great of appeal, bottom line, because of its limited displacement speed??

Are the full retirement folks the ones that are willing to accept displacement speed (and economy), while the other weekend cruisers need a bit more speed to widen their short time usage??


Here was an very interesting observation by a very experience boat owner from Europe.

HTM09 said:
Hello Brian,
some years ago I had the same question like you. I wanted a boat for using the inland waterways and canals in Europe, owner operated by a couple with the possibility of the occasional 2 more guests in a separate cabin with ensuite bath. Comfortable for onboard living for some weeks and capable and sized for traveling from the Swedish islands down to the Med (via inland waterways). I was open to all materials, propulsion systems, designs and sizes. The only design feature which was set, was the choice for a full displacement yacht, because of volume, comfort, speed limits and economy.

By order of the Admiral, I started a serious and deep research. Because of my lack of experience with inland motor boating, I hired additionally a professional small yacht engineer for an independent and open research of this subject.

We both came to the almost same result. And our result was nothing new. The wheel was already invented
smile.gif
. The exact same type of boat was built in Holland by many yards, because it is the most practical design for the European inland and costal waters and its corresponding laws and regulations.

This was the result:

Material: Steel and undoubtedly only Steel. Because of the many locks and sloping riverbanks with rocks and the many sheet pile walls, Steel with a solid rubber running strake. Anything else would not have lasted very long.

Hull Design: Multi chine full displacement hull with frames and stringers for volume and stability, because stabilizers were not concidered suitable for the sloped riverbanks.

Maximum size and technical data: Maximum length 14,99 meter (length because of licence requirements) x 4,8 meters width x 1,5 meter draft and 4 meter airdraft (3,5 meter with mast and windscreen down for the bridges and canal tunnels in France). Displacement max. 30 to 32 metric tons. because of the capacity of the haul out lifts in the inland boat shops in Europe. Twin engine diesel of 150 to 180 HP each with prop and shaft plus 24 volt electrical or hydraulical bow and stern thruster. Fuel capacity for 1000 NM range at 8 Kts, potable water for one week for two people plus watermaker. 8 KVA diesel genset, diesel central water heating, air conditioning, electrical cooking, no gas, no petrol store.

And thats the way they all looked like. Aft owner cabin with ensuite bath and owner office with raised aft deck above, two steering positions, one on the aft deck, one in the salon. Engine room under salon, galley forward of salon with additional dinette and foreward guest cabin with ensuite bath. This type of boat is build only in the Netherlands but by more than two dozend of high quality yards. These boats last for ever but are an investment between 650.000,- and 2.000.000,- US $ depending on luxury and options build in. Built time one year.

In order to confirm our research, we chartered one for two weeks in the Netherlands and found all results correct and confirmed and bought one.

But and there is a big but. Our children found slow boating on inland water ways f...... booooooring and never joined us and they never used the boat themself. We never had the time to go down to France or through the Göta Canal with it. It was and is only used in northern Germany and the Netherlands and selling it would be an enormous loss. So it is still in the family and sits 8 month a year in a hangar on the hard.

Answering your question: A pure displacement motorboat for slow boating on the canals is a non starter, period.

Below the European inland motor cruiser !

Interesting page of discussions and photos of that gentleman's 'canal boat':
Trawler Vs. Motoryacht - Page 6 - YachtForums.Com
 
I wonder what that is on the fwd deck of that photo you posted,....a part of the boat, or just something being transported?
Ah ha, optical illusion affected me. Somehow the shadowing made it look like some sort of hooded object fwd of the raised portion of the deckhouse up there. Funny how those perceptions can sometimes affect one's observations.
 
One "interesting" side of this boat is the attention we get wherever we go. We feel like movie stars with all the pictures taken of us when underway, and at the dock we always seen to attract attention, perhaps it's my beautiful wife.:thumb:
Judging from your photo, I'd say it's your wife although I really love the boat. :blush:
 
I am sure you are aware of the Photos area on the Pilgrim Wiki Pages.
Photos - PILGRIM Trawlers

There are 476 photos of "Hull 0" and various photos (1 up to 66) of the 41 Pilgrims built.

I very much like the aft deck of the original Pilgrim design. I like its size, and the fact that it is at the same level as the saloon. I believe that makes it all the more usable and utilized. Here are a few photos I've collected from some of the fleet of Pilgrims. Would love to have more.

This saloon-aftdeck combination, in lieu the often seen aft stateroom with very small aft deck of many trawlers designs, is a very appealing configuration for a liveaboard vessel.

I believe the market for a brand new, similar size/type boat is very small. You probably can't sell enough of them to amortize the tooling costs and turn a profit. One would think if there was money to be made building a similar boat that Gozzard would already be doing it considering the fact that they have experience in building 41 of the boats already.
 
Judging from your photo, I'd say it's your wife although I really love the boat. :blush:

Plus 2 on that one.

Frankly, I see the Pilgrim as one of the ultimate Coastal Cruising and Loop boats. Given the number of baby-boomers retiring (including me), a boat like the Pilgrim with reasonable pricing should sell, but it remains a classic with classic styling and performance to match. Those who chose to plop down the green for a new Pilgrim 40 were probably a combination of shrewd econo-minded and heart intended people that really had a genuine appreciation for the assets of the vessel. There's other economical boats out there that common sense would say could find a place in today's market with modernized materials, windows, and upgraded systems....including the Willard 30-40, Pilgrim 43, and even my own Krogen Manatee. Many of the less desirable elements of these boats could be side-stepped with recent design tech. Imagine if CAD software were around when the Pilgrim 40 was designed. Not to say that it would have been a better boat, but the designer would have had other options for routing wires and plumbing, opportunities to take advantage of inches here or there without prototypes or trial and error. It must be really difficult to get it right the first time, no?

I think a new Pilgrim 40 would find a similar percentage of the market as it did when it was first introduced, and I'd be glad about that cuz I enjoy the few moments I've had to see the boat on the water or in a marina. If marketing and affordability made it the Sea-Ray of cruising boats, I'd be sad.
 
side channel..while there are narrow parts of the ICW...generally wider than this...

the width and depth of all ICW narrow spots can usually be found on the charts under controlling depths, but so many places haven't been dredged in so long...you really have to pick your way along if you have a bad feeling...problem is with too many boaters...they don't have enough experience to get that "bad feeling"...
 
Lots of Photos, and great fwd stateroom modification

I am sure you are aware of the Photos area on the Pilgrim Wiki Pages.
Photos - PILGRIM Trawlers

There are 476 photos of "Hull 0" and various photos (1 up to 66) of the 41 Pilgrims built.

Thanks for that link :thumb:. I was having some problems accessing all those photos before. This was much easier.

I found this particular vessel VERY interesting, with lots of good photos.
Vessel #44, Nobel Tethys, previously Moon Dancer
https://plus.google.com/photos/117704940909316957718/albums/5831552198615848497

In particular I like the light-shaded wood utilized in the fwd stateroom (photos beginning at #66). It makes that room much more appealing than the stock design.
 

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Are all the channel markers that I see in the photo, numerous throughout the ICW? If so, the lanes are not very wide!

PS is correct this is the channel going into the Loggerhead Marina at Grand Harbor in Vero Beach.
 
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