Walking a twin-screw boat sideways

psneeld · Sep 23, 2013

While many of the simplistic "theories"/"methods" are common amongst many boats.....every boat is a little different and every situation is a little different...the mark of an experienced helmsman is quick recognition and quick adaptation.

Training new boaters is more about getting the simple stuff done so they can start relaxing and absorbing the bigger picture....learning soft touch/strong touch/hold-do nothing is one of the most important.

alormaria · Sep 25, 2013

I found the best place to practice walking sideways was at the bottom of a lock. No current, no wind, no audience and you can hit anything.

Edelweiss · Sep 25, 2013

alormaria said:
I found the best place to practice walking sideways was at the bottom of a lock. No current, no wind, no audience and you can hit anything.

You must have different locks than we have. It's more like being in a fishbowl here and you're the center of attention if it goes badly!!

koliver · Sep 26, 2013

Baker said:
I just choose the "falling leaf" method. It does require you to manage your forward motion/way but it is simpler and seems more natural as I come from a single with bow thruster...which is pretty much what you have to do with a single/thruster set up.

Just approach the dock with a little bit of way and at a 45 degree angle. Use the "outter" engine(furthest from dock) to erase your way and thusly bring the bow away from the dock and the stern towards it. Some times that is all you need if you time it right and have the right amount of speed and the boat will go right up to the dock...sometimes at a slightly alarming rate. If that does not do it, then in and out of forward and reverse until you get the boat alongside....the boat will appear like a "falling leaf". Which engine you use is determined by how much movement you need in the bow or stern and if you need to put way on or take it off. I'm not sure i am making any sense here....hard to explain...easy on the boat though.

I think walking a twin sideways with consistent regularity is somewhat of a myth. Like people have said, the conditions have to be right.

This is NOT what we have been discussing here. You have adequately described normal docking procedure for a twin. That is how I usually dock my boat too, but when the spot is inappropriate for that type of manoeuvring, you may wish to move your boat sideways into the spot, using the method we have been discussing. much like the joystick handling of the new Pod drive boats. Just consider trying to approach the crowded club dock, where boats are double rafted two deep both ahead of and behind the single opening, and that opening is only a few feet longer than your own boat length. This is where I first tried the sideways technique, and it was impressive, especially to me, to see how well the boat behaved, the bow and stern both gliding towards the dock at the same rate, all the while staying safely away from the neighbour.

alormaria · Sep 26, 2013

Edelweiss said:
You must have different locks than we have. It's more like being in a fishbowl here and you're the center of attention if it goes badly!!

Yes, I was thinking of the Erie and Oswego canals during the week.

For real entertainment try the Rideau and Chambly locks during weekends in August.

psneeld · Sep 26, 2013

Just a reminder...not all boats handle the same...some walk fine and other don't do it hardly a all....

if it was so guaranteed that it worked perfectly with all boats all the time...there would be no thrusters on twins....

Edelweiss · Sep 26, 2013

alormaria said:
Yes, I was thinking of the Erie and Oswego canals during the week.
For real entertainment try the Rideau and Chambly locks during weekends in August.

Ha Ha, I figured that is what you meant. In reality the lock masters at Hiram Chittenden locks in Seattle are real pros and they don't let you get too far out of sorts. I was single handing it one night coming through the large locks and he lasoo'd my anchor windlass on the first try from about 15 feet above, no effort and held it there until I got the stern secured and up to the bow.

In truth, during the summer months there can be 100 people staring down at you, taking pictures as you enter the locks. The pressure is on to do it right !! :angel:

alormaria · Sep 26, 2013

Edelweiss said:
Ha Ha, I figured that is what you meant. In reality the lock masters at Hiram Chittenden locks in Seattle are real pros and they don't let you get too far out of sorts. I was single handing it one night coming through the large locks and he lasoo'd my anchor windlass on the first try from about 15 feet above, no effort and held it there until I got the stern secured and up to the bow.

In truth, during the summer months there can be 100 people staring down at you, taking pictures as you enter the locks. The pressure is on to do it right !!

When I went down the flight of 8 locks in downtown Ottawa, the other boat in the locks had a topless Québécois sunning herself on deck. No one was watching me. I wasn't watching me. Oh, my wife was watching me.

Art · Sep 26, 2013

alormaria said:
When I went down the flight of 8 locks in downtown Ottawa, the other boat in the locks had a topless Québécois sunning herself on deck. No one was watching me. I wasn't watching me. Oh, my wife was watching me.

Edelweiss · Sep 26, 2013

psneeld said:
. some walk fine and other don't do it hardly a all....if it was so guaranteed that it worked perfectly with all boats all the time...there would be no thrusters on twins.

I would love to have a bow thruster for those windy days when the wind and tide combine to drag the bow away from the dock. But it is really hard to justify the expense when 99% of the time like you say, with twins, it isn't needed!!

alormaria said:
. No one was watching me. I wasn't watching me. Oh, my wife was watching me.

Yeah ....wives can be funny that way!! :flowers:

beachbum29 · Sep 26, 2013

alormaria said:
When I went down the flight of 8 locks in downtown Ottawa, the other boat in the locks had a topless Québécois sunning herself on deck. No one was watching me. I wasn't watching me. Oh, my wife was watching me.

Pics or it didn't happen.

Baker · Sep 26, 2013

koliver said:
This is NOT what we have been discussing here. You have adequately described normal docking procedure for a twin. That is how I usually dock my boat too, but when the spot is inappropriate for that type of manoeuvring, you may wish to move your boat sideways into the spot, using the method we have been discussing. much like the joystick handling of the new Pod drive boats. Just consider trying to approach the crowded club dock, where boats are double rafted two deep both ahead of and behind the single opening, and that opening is only a few feet longer than your own boat length. This is where I first tried the sideways technique, and it was impressive, especially to me, to see how well the boat behaved, the bow and stern both gliding towards the dock at the same rate, all the while staying safely away from the neighbour.

But I think it is what we are talking about. Maybe a "semantical" misunderstanding!!! If you are telling me you can do this by setting up your controls(rudders, throttles, transmissions) and then walk sideways without touching them once, then I will personally hop on an airplane to come over and witness it in person...I'll buy the beer too! The fact of the matter is, you are constantly adjusting and fine tuning to get it to do that...just like I was saying. And how tightly your "leaf is falling" determines how the docking maneuver appears to onlookers.

We have a popular dockside bar here in my area. I stuck my boat in a slot where my anchor was hanging in the cockpit of the boat in front of me and the anchor of the boat behind me was hanging in my cockpit. The band literally stopped playing to watch me dock when they figured out what I was trying to do. I nailed it using the above technique. The lead singer even left the stage to come shake my hand in disbelief.

So in summary, there will always be a little forward and aft movement however negligible it may be. And the bow and stern will always be "adjusting" back and forth to fine tune their positions because you will always be fine tuning the movement of the boat. And like I said, if you can walk a twin perfectly sideways with no adjustments and no forward or aft movement and no movement of bow or stern, I will jump on an airplane to witness. I will even buy Walt(Seahorse) a ticket as well so he can buy the beer!!!!

Baker · Sep 26, 2013

Ps....I will admit that there was a pretty good current on the nose, in my favor. But that is the reason why I even attempted it. Had the same current been on the stern, I would not have even though of trying it. My motion was very slow and there were people at the ready with fenders. All I am saying is I wouldn't think of endangering someone else's property if I thought it was too risky. In this case, I did not.

Art · Sep 26, 2013

Baker said:
But I think it is what we are talking about. Maybe a "semantical" misunderstanding!!! If you are telling me you can do this by setting up your controls(rudders, throttles, transmissions) and then walk sideways without touching them once, then I will personally hop on an airplane to come over and witness it in person...I'll buy the beer too! The fact of the matter is, you are constantly adjusting and fine tuning to get it to do that...just like I was saying. And how tightly your "leaf is falling" determines how the docking maneuver appears to onlookers.

We have a popular dockside bar here in my area. I stuck my boat in a slot where my anchor was hanging in the cockpit of the boat in front of me and the anchor of the boat behind me was hanging in my cockpit. The band literally stopped playing to watch me dock when they figured out what I was trying to do. I nailed it using the above technique. The lead singer even left the stage to come shake my hand in disbelief.

So in summary, there will always be a little forward and aft movement however negligible it may be. And the bow and stern will always be "adjusting" back and forth to fine tune their positions because you will always be fine tuning the movement of the boat. And like I said, if you can walk a twin perfectly sideways with no adjustments and no forward or aft movement and no movement of bow or stern, I will jump on an airplane to witness. I will even buy Walt(Seahorse) a ticket as well so he can buy the beer!!!!

Hey - Invite Marin too, if you can find his PMing gost self. As I recall, on some thread when he still played for real in TF, he was completely in the camp that twin screws could not walk a boat accurately sideways! Maybe I'm incorrect... but, in my case, memory loss seems to still be held in abeyance! LOL :dance:

psneeld · Sep 26, 2013

Can...can't...................run enough boats and sooner or later one will surprise the daylights out of you for what it can/can't do...

But.... to say try this or try that with your boat is great,,,but don't be surprised when it won't do as someone else is convinced/or tries to convince you it will...especially when you need it the most.

Art · Sep 26, 2013

psneeld said:
Can...can't...................run enough boats and sooner or later one will surprise the daylights out of you for what it can/can't do...

But.... to say try this or try that with your boat is great,,,but don't be surprised when it won't do as someone else is convinced/or tries to convince you it will...especially when you need it the most.

Looks like one thing my Tolly can surely do is put money in my pocket every day! So yours should be able to do the same for you...

Oh Crap... I just woke up. Nice dream though! :dance:

:lol:

psneeld · Sep 26, 2013

you running her commercially?

most boats try to suck you dry....

Art · Sep 26, 2013

psneeld said:
you running her commercially?

most boats try to suck you dry....

Pleasure boats can do anything we wish them to do in a dream... even put $$$ in our pockets! :rofl:

Peter B · Sep 27, 2013

alormaria said:
When I went down the flight of 8 locks in downtown Ottawa, the other boat in the locks had a topless Québécois sunning herself on deck. No one was watching me. I wasn't watching me. Oh, my wife was watching me.

But what if your wife didn't bother to watch you. That might mean she was taking you for granted - or didn't care - that would be worse, yes..?

rbcooper · Oct 1, 2013

A quick test

Ok we've heard the big hubub about how to force ones boat to walk sideways and whether that is even possible. So here's a simple test. Start the boat at your dock. Switch the gears and the helm to whatever position you believe will walk your boat "sideways". Observe what happens. IF there is NO tension on ANY of your sidelines AND your boat is being forced toward the dock then your maneuver is successful. If how ever you note any tension on any lines you will know that the sidewise maneuver is not perfect. Try adjusting throttle, rudder position etc. until you achieve the no tension/pressure on the dock and you have discovered the "magic" setting that works. Understand this condition is ONLY applicable for the particular conditions (wind/current etc.) that the boat is under at that particular time. One could even try this in different conditions and calibrate the results.

This is how I exercise my engines before changing oil assuming the conditions aren't right for taking her out for a short cruise. Puts a bit of a load on the engines and allows them to get to operating temps while sitting at the dock.

Regards,

RB Cooper

Nsail · Oct 1, 2013

To show you how crazy these theories are - this theory says to do the same as post #1, but it says you will move to starboard, not port!

http://www.captainhugenot.com/images/TWIN-SCREW_06-2004.pdf

Which one is correct? The one that works on your boat.

Ocean Breeze NL · Oct 1, 2013

Art said:
Hey - Invite Marin too, he was completely in the camp that twin screws could not walk a boat accurately sideways!

You sure Art??? thought he wished he had a twin because he couldn't crab walk his boat. Didn't he say his next boat was going to have a twin... :facepalm:

Baker · Oct 2, 2013

Ocean Breeze NL said:
You sure Art??? thought he wished he had a twin because he couldn't crab walk his boat. Didn't he say his next boat was going to have a twin...

His boat has twins! And he prefers twins. Who knows....His next boat might have even more!!!

Baker · Oct 2, 2013

Nsail said:
To show you how crazy these theories are - this theory says to do the same as post #1, but it says you will move to starboard, not port!

http://www.captainhugenot.com/images/TWIN-SCREW_06-2004.pdf

Which one is correct? The one that works on your boat.

One of my closest friends is a Houston Pilot. He parks ships for a living. He said more and more ships now are twin engine power so his last trip to the "ship simulator" in Europe, the focus was docking twin engine ships. He was trying to teach me and his advice based on his training was in line with this link. I never could get my head around it and my boat didn't really respond. Maybe I will try again.... :banghead:

Ocean Breeze NL · Oct 2, 2013

Oh I knew that, was just trying to get a rise out of the young fellow.

Walking a twin-screw boat sideways

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