Single or twins???

I'm looking at a few mainship 40'ers but cann't decide on the engines Price (singles) or the comfort knowing I have that extra engine to get home if needed (twins) Please I would like all of your opinions No matter what I buy it'll have thrusters THANKS

Greetings,* you will find this subject has been explored in depth on most sites, it may well be the most often asked question.* Try the searching different forums for this info.* What I think you will find is that there are as many reasons for one over the other as there are people expressing them, and ultimately only you can decide which option makes you most comfortable.* Doing the research, and weighing different options is a fun part of the process, enjoy it, and let us know what you finally decide.........................Arctic Traveller

AT above is right, this issue has been beat to death. In fact I started the same thread a couple of months ago. I'm still looking for a boat in the 38 to 40' range and finally gave up on singles which was my*preference*due to economy of operation and maintenance. I gave up because there are just so few boats in my size range that are singles. If a single is your first objective they are out there, but so few you may have to compromise in other areas that I found important. I hope to find a low powered twin that will*satisfy all or nearly satisfy all my requirements. Many more to choose from.

Another important consideration, gas or diesel. This has been discussed as well. My opinion, gas are not as reliable so the type of engine is an important consideration as well.*


Concerning safety, if your cruising is the intercoastal or other inland waterways get a single, buy towing insurance, get a big anchor, and forget about it. If you're going out into open water, engine reliability then should be a far more important consideration and a twin would make a lot of sense. However a twin won't help much if you get bad fuel, it does happen.


You probably won't need a thruster if you get a twin. Very nice on a single though.


Keep us informed.


-- Edited by timjet on Saturday 16th of January 2010 12:43:40 PM


-- Edited by timjet on Saturday 16th of January 2010 12:50:47 PM

-- Edited by timjet on Saturday 16th of January 2010 12:52:51 PM

timjet wrote:

I hope to find a low powered twin that will*satisfy all or nearly satisfy all my requirements.

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Tim--- There is one advantage to a twin that I rarely see mentioned, but it is definitely an advantage to us, and that is that having a "spare engine" under the floor often makes one's boating partner more secure.* This is the case with my wife, who has flown with me countless times up and down the Inside Passage in a single-engine floatplane with an engine manufacturerd in the 1940s, and has owned single-engine airplanes herself.* So she is not scared of having her life depend on just one set of pistons.

But in the boat we have needed the second engine four times in the last eleven years.* While the shutdowns were not from serious problems---- and one of them was due to my not fully understanding the fuel transfer system--- in each case we were able to proceed home, in some cases a six or eight hour run, with no concerns, no emergency, and no worry.

We started our search for a GB36 not caring if what we got was a single or a twin.* The one we chartered was a single.* The boat that best met our purchase requirements happened to be a twin.* But my wife has told me that when we head out across the Georgia Strait or wherever, she simply feels more confident because we have two engines.* And a wife that is more confident is a wife that is happier and a wife that will enjoy boating a lot more than a wife who is worrying or nervous.

The 40 Mainship ER space is limited with a single, so twins really create a Pandoras box. If the ER is not too crowded, I am a twin advocate, largely in agreement with what Marin mentioned above. Plus it is really hard to find value vessels above 40 that have singles. Luhrs has had some install issues with exhaust*risers draining back into engine,*so look carefully at that if you go Mainhship. The 40 is a nice boat and you may find good bargains in this down market. The FB is hard to beat. Last year in the PNW I*noticed a good 40 drop by at least $50K over a year to get it sold.*

I find twins really help if you have bad fuel. Most twins have a Racor or similar filter setup for each engine. When you have bad fuel and your vacuum gauge sees potential filter plugging, shut her down and swap filters while the other is running. Bad fuel is a ghost bugaboo anyway where I go in the PNW.

Thanks for the input

OK right now there are LOTS of mainship 40's with singles out there right now but the wife would not feel safe without a back up engine As for the space issue I know it's tight but she does not have to work on them LOL Of course I wouldn't own anything thats a gasser, diesel ALL the way. As for bad fuel YES it does happen although I'm in the fuel industry I can and do test for algae and I built a system that filters the fuel as it is pumped in my tanks.
To finish up here what do you all think of a mainship 40 overall as a looper boat?

The ONLY boat to buy is one with a single engine. Why buy twice as many parts as you need to go cruising? Not only initial cost but everytime you change filters, belts, hoses etc. you have to pay twice as much for the same number of running hours. Of course if your maintenance schedule is so haphazard that you break down often, then maybe a spare is needed, although who's to say the second engine won't break too?

Take the money you save on routine maintenance and buy a good unlimited towing policy if you don't want to do the maintenance to make your boat reliable. You'll be money ahead.

If you're afraid of breaking down in "bad" water where a tow would be difficult to get, then don't go there. That's pretty easy.

If you can't figure out how to get to and away from the dock without twins, then maybe you shouldn't be boating at all.

Have I hit all the offensive items yet? In all seriousness it is a personal choice that only you can make. For every argument on either side there is a valid argument for the other. I've owned boats with single and with twins. My retirement boat is a single. I like the economy and the extra room in the holy place.

As always, just my opinion and I might be wrong.

ken

Single is fine, but twins don't suck either. I prefer the extra space to move around in the engine bay and the massive savings on parts and fuel.

go to a lab and have a genetic test done to find out if you are a single or twin person ,while your there may as well get them to test you for anchor type as well.

all the advice in the world wont change your genetic predisposition .

"To finish up here what do you all think of a mainship 40 overall as a looper boat?"


Depends ,but not on what engine was maranized and plopped in the boat

For the loop a midships cleat is REQUIRED , it will ease the passage in locks by 95%.

If a nice good sized midships cleat is factory installed , its a fine boat.

Remember the loop has been run for 5 decades in open outboards , so it is more a matter of COMFORT , than single or twin .

FF, we have had this discussion. MAINSHIPS COME WITH A VERY PROPERLY SIZED MIDSHIP CLEAT!!!! I have a Mainship 30 that weighs a whopping 10,000lbs. I would say the cleats on it are at least properly sized if not oversized(if that is possible)....you can even see the midship cleat in my avatar photo.

The Mainship 40 would be an excellent boat for the loop for a couple....my OPINION. I like the fact that it is a sedan...which provides you with one level of living(yes Marin, I realize you have to go down 2 steps while going forward) which can simplify operation of the boat(ie locks,etc).

My biggest issue with ANY BOAT is the way storage is laid out.....DRAWERS!!!! About 10 percent of boat manufacturers did/do it right(opinion). Having 10,000 drawers and cubby holes that can only fit underwear or sox is useless even though they may mathematically contain the same space as 6 big nice deep DRAWERS. Hatteras does a good job of this. 6-9 big deep drawers on each side of the aft cernterline berth. Prairie does as well. CHB/Present/xxx does as well. This is ALWAYS a BIG consideration when I look at a boat that will be lived aboard. Thos are the only brands that I have consistently seen Home sized drawers on. If they don't have big drawers, I am already compromising my boat choice.

-- Edited by Baker on Sunday 17th of January 2010 10:41:31 AM

Baker wrote:

I like the fact that it is a sedan...which provides you with one level of living(yes Marin, I realize you have to go down 2 steps while going forward)

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Or four very deep ones in the case of a GB--- the drop into our forward cabin is almost twice the height as the drop into our aft cabin so if climbing up and down is physically difficult for a person, they're going to have just as much trouble in a GB sedan as they are in a GB tri-cabin----- just to keep the definitions accurate

I once read that the most problems with diesel comes from fuel issues. So single or twin bad fuel shuts them both down.*
*
Consider a get home.**** Off the generator.** If you are just worying about loosing power on one engine.* Should Still Give the S.O. a warm fuzzy.

SD

Marin wrote:

*
Baker wrote:

I like the fact that it is a sedan...which provides you with one level of living(yes Marin, I realize you have to go down 2 steps while going forward)

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Or four very deep ones in the case of a GB--- the drop into our forward cabin is almost twice the height as the drop into our aft cabin so if climbing up and down is physically difficult for a person, they're going to have just as much trouble in a GB sedan as they are in a GB tri-cabin----- just to keep the definitions accurate

*



There are at least half as many steps on a sedan than on a tri cabin. *So you will likely only use half as many stairs....pretty simple math. *My mains point is you pretty much just walk around on a sedan standing straight up with very limited climbing and stepping over things. *Wanna go outside? *Just walk right out standing straight up *not climbing any stairs to get out or stepping over any door sills....just walk out. *And the cockpit is the exact same level as the salon. *This is also important in a "panic situation". *The SO having trouble fending off in a lock(or you are by yourself)....just walk/run out and around the corner....no steps...no door sills.....flat land the whole way. *On your tricabin, you may be lucky enough if she is having trouble on the side of the door....you still have a door sill to clear and maybe even limited head clearance as you step over and duck under at the same time. *If she is on the other side(or you are by yourself) you have a lot of real estate to cover and it aint flat. *THAT IS MY POINT!!! *Maneuvering on a boat other than a sedan(which includes Europas ) requires a lot of stepping up and ducking under and climbing over uneven deck surfaces. *To me, that is the MAIN advantage of a Sedan. *Swim platform?????......open the transom door and walk right out....no stairs....walking fully erect.....same exact level.....step into the dinghy....no acrobatic maneuvers required....just step right in. *You walked straight from your salon and straight into your dinghy.....not a step, stair, doorsill, ladder.....NADA.....ya with me here???? *

This is the reason why I think a Sedan(in this case, a Mainship 40) would be an excellent choice for doing the loop. *You are pretty much stopping every night so there is a lot of maneuvering to be done. *There are also MANY locks to transit....so more maneuvers....





-- Edited by Baker on Monday 18th of January 2010 02:44:44 PM

Baker wrote:Swim platform?????......open the transom door and walk right out....no stairs....walking fully erect.....same exact level.....step into the dinghy....no acrobatic maneuvers required....just step right in. *You walked straight from your salon and straight into your dinghy.....not a step, stair, doorsill, ladder.....NADA.....ya with me here???? *

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Mr. Generality strikes again Try that on a GB sedan and you'll have a big surprise as you walk out that transom door and pitch headlong DOWN a fair distance into your dinghy.* On a GB sedan, even with it's minimal transom door, you still have to climb down to the swimstep to board the dinghy.

Also, some smaller sedans offer no side access from the cabin to the deck, the GB32 being a good example.* Need to get to the bow in a hurry?* Out the back door and all the way round the boat to get there.

As to uneven deck surfaces, on the GB tri-cabins (except earlier models of the GB46 and some of the very first woodys) the main decks are all one level.* No steps up or down.* Same with most of the sedans (but not the GB32) and Europas.* The GB Motoryachts do have a couple of steps up to get from the side deck to the top of the full-width aft cabin.

Like every configuration, sedans have good points and negative points.* But the notion of true one-level living is not always the case.* Now to you or me, a few steps down to the forecabin or the swimstep may make no difference.* But to someone--- and judging from what I read on heavily populated lists like T&T there are a lot of these "someones"--- who has a physical problem with climbing stairs or ladders, many sedans won't help them out any.* Nor will a tri-cabin.* But to imply that all sedans offer easy, one-level accommodations is simply incorrect.* For some people, they can be every bit as difficult to get around on as a tri-cabin or other multi-level configuration.

You need to get out and look at more boats, dude, before you start making blanket "this is they way they all are" statements




-- Edited by Marin on Monday 18th of January 2010 03:07:11 PM

Yep, for a person with no arms or legs(or any non-ambulatory person), you are absolutely correct. The configuration doesn't matter. But, GENERALLY......we are talking the majority of the population(A VERY VAST MAJORITY)....the people that have no trouble walking...a sedan is MUCH MUCH easier to get around on. AND it is STILL easier for somebody that might have a little bit of trouble walking. It is easier to move about on....period. And the vast majority of the boating population doesn't own Grand Banks!!!

My Prairie 29 Sedan had no side door. Still no big deal...out the back door and around the corner. I could RUN with no fear of tripping...

To the OP, I am a fan of Single engine....simply a preference.

-- Edited by Baker on Monday 18th of January 2010 05:31:28 PM

Baker wrote:

a sedan is MUCH MUCH easier to get around on. AND it is STILL easier for somebody that might have a little bit of trouble walking.

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Total, absolute*BS.* From your posts and pics I gather your idea of a long cruise is five or six hours on the bay with stops at a couple of marinas. Big whoop.

Out here, a short cruise is considered to be two or three weeks to*Desolation*Sound or the Broughtons and a long cruise is three to five months up the Inside*Passage*into SE Alaska, and a good portion of that you're at anchor and have to dinghy to shore.* You live on the boat for a long, long*time.

This past September we had friends from France spend a week on the boat with us during our two-week trip in the Gulf Islands (I don't even consider that trip a cruise).* During that time, each of them probably went up and down the steps into the forward cabin ten or twenty times a day.* Plus they were in and out of*the dinghy several times a day.* During this time, they*never once went into the aft cabin.* So*in terms of up and down,*they were on a sedan.* They are in good shape, this wasn't a problem, and they didn't even mention it.* But if at the end of the week if you'd waltzed up to them on*the dock and given them your "easy living all on one level" speech, they'd have laughed in your face and told you to go*f--- yourself.* In French, of course, so it would have sounded very classy

Now if you*want to consider sedans a "one level boat" for your own purposes, that's fine.* I don't care how you define stuff for yourself.* The problem I have is that when someone new to this kind of boating comes along and asks about the pros and cons of different configurations, your "all one level- never have to climb up or down" definition of a sedan is misleading because all sedans are not like this.

And if a person is actually going to spend time on their boat as opposed to zipping around on the bay for a few hours*when the weather's nice, clambering up and down the forecabin steps for weeks or months day after day can be a consideration even if they happen to have all their arms and legs.

Marin, you are dodging my point. Sedans are easier to move about on...PERIOD. I will retract my "one level of living" moniker of that'll make you feel better. How about two levels(excepting a flybridge)....other boats are multiple levels. That does NOT change the FACT that sedans are easier to move about on. Your French guests did more step and "level changes" than just up and down the forward area of the boat. They step out the door(which requires a stepover/duck under maneuver) then what as they go aft to the dinghy??? A walk down an unprotected narrow side deck and then a step down??? If there is no step down then that just translates to a bigger level change to get to the dinghy. You likely have to clear the gun'l and get down some transom mounted step/pads to get to the platform. Not at all a big deal for able bodied people. But to say that the access is exactly the same or even similar is bordering on delusional. A lot of **** can happen on the journey down the side deck and over the gun'l to the swim platform.

Marin, I am in no way saying that sedans are better boats. They are definitely a compromise in space. They are my preference, generally, but that is just a personal preference. My next boat may very well be a sundeck....simply because I want something with lots of space. I would ultimately prefer a pilothouse....somewhat of a sedan with extra space....although it does add an extra interior level(the pilothouse). But pilothouses are generally bigger and expensive.

Now I am not going to get into a measuring contest of who has more cruising experience. You are older than I and I do hope you have more experience than I do. But your assumption that my experience is strictly limited to day jaunts across the bay could be considered offensive(presumptuous, arrogant, condescending,etc)....although I am not offended. I know your style enough to know that you are not speaking with malice or ill will. You're just a little irritated that you have taken an unwinnable position in this argument.... I lived aboard a Prairie 29 Sedan for almost 6 years.....half of it(3 years...that simple math again) with my then girlfriend and now wife. Most people that liveaboard dockside have a tendency to not use their boats as much. We were the opposite. We would untie and go all the time. We used our boat more as a liveaboard then we do as non-liveaboard. That is likely more liveaboard experience than the majority of boaters...FWIW.

I also have the confidence of the public in general that they will do diligent research and not give too much weight to a couple of crotchety f***s(one old, one younger ) on a forum. I seriously doubt people are gonna race out and buy a sedan based on my alleged misinformation.

And I seem to remember an article about 5-8 years ago in PMM about a wheelchair bound boater that singlehands his boat. His choice was a Mainship Pilot 30.....the sedan version....for whatever that is worth.

-- Edited by Baker on Monday 18th of January 2010 07:20:06 PM

Baker wrote:

*A walk down an unprotected narrow side deck and then a step down??? If there is no step down then that just translates to a bigger level change to get to the dinghy. You likely have to clear the gun'l and get down some transom mounted step/pads to get to the platform. Not at all a big deal for able bodied people. But to say that the access is exactly the same or even similar is bordering on delusional.

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Have you ever even been on a GB, CHB, Puget Trawler, etc.* You can do a frickin' waltz with a partner down the "narrow, unprotected*sidedeck" of the typical trawler.* Well, not quite a waltz, but you get the drift.* The bulwarks are high, the hand rails are high, the side-deck is wide (for the size of the boat).... go walk around on one.* The attached photo is the narrow, unprotected, dangerous, impossible-to-negotiate side deck on our boat. I'm glad you told me how deadly this deck really is--- here I thought it was pretty decent compared to the toe-ledge on most boats.......

With the exception of the GB32, which has a step-down aft cockpit although not much of a step, all the GB sedans have back ends identical to the tri-cabins except for a little short "transom door" in the bulwark.* But the deck to swimstep height is the same in the sedans and the tri-cabins.* On a GB Motoryacht, or sundeck if you will, the aft deck arrangement is very different of course.

Now if you want to talk about sedans with step-down cockpits or a main deck that is the same level as a low-floored cockpit, fine, your point about simply stepping out onto the swimstep can be correct.* But not all sedans are like this, unike what you* stated in your original post.

I've been on several GB sedans, 36s and 42s.* They are no different to move around on than our tri-cabin if you exclude the aft cabin on our boat.* Same side door (yes, you do*have to step up from the main cabin to the side deck), same one-level main deck, same number of steps down into the forecabin.* The only difference beside the step-down aft cabin is the short (it's so short most people don't bother using it) "transom" door in the aft bulwark.

That's GBs.** Other makes of boats have different configurations, and others have similar configurations.

The couple of "advanced years" boaters I've been acquainted with who were starting to have mobility problems traded their GB Europa or tri-cabin for Eastbays.* Still had the multi-step-down forecabin but otherwise it is a more or less one level boat although there is a single step up into the main cabin from the aft deck.** And the lower aft deck and*transom door to the swimstep make access onto and off the boat much easier.* *There are some nice VR movies of the Eastbay series on the GB website.

You're right about the French and German.* Mark Twain described the German language as sounding like "a monkey choking on an orange."* We did some work with Lauda Air a number of years ago and our liason was a drop-dead gorgeous 21-year old intern, probably the prettiest girl I've ever seen bar none.* Everything was great until she'd speak Austrian (which sounds just like German) to her airline co-workers.* The sound simply did not fit the visual at all.* Sitting in*a restaurant in Paris, however, listening to the girls around you speaking French is a vast pleasure in itself regardless of what the girls actually look like.

As to people buying a boat based on what you had to say, I don't know man....People put an awful lot of credibility in what an airline pilot has to say.** It's a curse I guess you'll just have to bear.


-- Edited by Marin on Monday 18th of January 2010 08:36:32 PM

sloboat wrote:

(not that anyone on this particular site would give a ratz azz about planing...heh, heh).*

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If money was no object, including the price of fuel, I'd have a planing boat, either an Eastbay or a Fleming with the largest engines that could be shoehorned into it, in a second.* Plodding along at eight knots sucks big time. The only reason we do it is because we can't afford to go 25 knots, the boat or the fuel.

Taking three days to go from Bellingham to Desolation Sound is big-time*bullsh*t in my book.* I'm really jealous of the couple of people I know with Eastbays who can get up there in a day.* So you won't get any counter-argument from me if you talk about wanting to go fast.

*

<<They are no different to move around on than our tri-cabin if you exclude the aft cabin on our boat. *>>....nothing like totally redesigning your boat to prove your point!!! *That is funny stuff right there.




I don't mind going fast either but one of my issues is that you really have to pay attention on plane. Things happen alot faster and you really can't have a lapse in attention. Whereas, at 7-8 knots, you can make a sandwich(or whatever) and scan the horizon periodically and you will be fine. You may be going twice as fast but your "burn out" twice as quickly because of your stepped up concentration. IOW, you fatigue more quickly while running on plane.

And Marin, my only point ref side decks is that you are exposed. That is all. I have been on my side deck and not really paying attention when a boat wake hit the boat and made the boat move in a strange and unpredictable jerking action. I lost my balance for a minute and the side rail caught me. To say my heart skipped a beat is a severe understatement. My wife was sleeping below. Boat was on AP. If I had gone over I would have been dead and my wife would have woke up when the boat ran aground. When you are exposed, things can happen versus being safe in the confines of the boat. Are your side decks unsafe? No, not at all. Is it safer to access the cockpit via the salon(ala sedan)??? Yes it is. It is pretty hard to fall overboard while you are INSIDE the boat.

Eastbays are the epitome of what I am talking about in a sedan....and very fine boats indeed.




-- Edited by Baker on Monday 18th of January 2010 10:11:48 PM

Baker wrote:

*
<<They are no different to move around on than our tri-cabin if you exclude the aft cabin on our boat. *>>....nothing like totally redesigning your boat to prove your point!!! *That is funny stuff right there.

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No, only refuting your claim that tri-cabins are harder to move around on deck than a sedan.* Not true in the case of GB tri-cabins and sedans and other trawlers of similar configuration where the deck configuration is identical in Sedans, Classics (tri-cabins), and Europas with few exceptions.* You keep requalifying your statements to the point where I'm thinking all you'll be left with is the spelling of "sedan."* Which, if you spell it right, I will most definitely agree with.

We have an Arima fishing boat that cruises at 26 mph.* While it does require*a bit*more concentration, you're underway a lot less time going from Point A to Point B.* So*I find it's*not nearly as tiring as plodding along over the same distance*at the pace of oozing jello at eight knots.* I've run our Arima up north in the Broughtons*getting to a halibut*area*for three hours straight*on*the plane and found it a hell of a lot less tiring than creeping along at eight*knots for the same amount of time in the GB.*With a planing boat you don't have to take the time to make a sandwich underway*when you get hungry--- by the time you get hungry you'll be there already.

I also used to think that at planing speeds we would miss a lot of the scenery and other interesting things.* But*we have not found this to be the case at all.* In fact in the GB we'll see something neat up ahead and end up saying, "Christ, are we ever going to get there?"* And by the time we do get there, if the interesting thing was alive it's long gone, and if it's not alive it's been so damn long we've probably forgotten what attracted our attention in the first place.**Where in the Arima if*we see something neat we can zip right*over and take a look.

I know all the arguments about the wonders of going slow--- I used to use the same arguments for the first bunch of years after we got the GB.* I no longer feel this way at all.* Slow sucks.* The only thing it has going for it in my book is it's real cheap. Outside of that I cannot think of a single advantage anymore.* Slow is boring, frustrating, time-wasting,*and tiring.* Fast is, well, fast.* You get there sooner and speaking for myself, I'm in a better frame of mind, I'm less frustrated and far less tired. I have way more time to do what*I*went there to do.* And I've had a hell of a lot more fun running the boat than just standing there watching the scenery zip past at the pace of a fossilized snail.

Our dog could probably run the GB at eight knots.* But we've not asked him to because he's so staggeringly bored with the pace he forces himself to pass out until we get to where we're going.



-- Edited by Marin on Tuesday 19th of January 2010 01:16:42 AM

Cool man. Sedans and tri-cabins are the same(except that darn pesky aft cabin). We'll leave it at that.


Our Prairie did 7 knots. The boat we have does 16kts. Ive done many 12+ hour days on the Prairie (did one 4 day non-stop from Mississippi to Texas....68 hours straight) and I just seem to find a rhythm. This boat I am pretty much done after 6 hours. DOn't know if it is noise, concentration level, seating position. I think it is ultimately the fact that I walk around while going slow. I might go sit in the aft cockpit for a minute or two while the AP steers. I might take out the trash. A planing boat you are in the seat, at attention the whole time. This is just my experience. I am a little more on edge.

We are eyeballing our next boat(if ours ever sells....pretty tough market). No telling what it will be. Cost is always the biggest factor. I personally think fuel is not that big of a deal unless you are cruising full time in which case slow is the way to go. It could easily be a sedan....or a sundeck because the space they offer is hard to deny. There just aren't that many sedans out there in the trawler world. The manufacturers knew they are selling space/room aboard and that is what is compromised in a sedan. Ideally, it would be a single engine sedan with very little teak.....that barely exists except the new Mainships which we can't afford. It likely won't be a tri-cabin. I'd keep falling into or tripping over that darn pesky aft cabin.....

Marin wrote

"I know all the arguments about the wonders of going slow--- I used to use the same arguments for the first bunch of years after we got the GB.* I no longer feel this way at all.* Slow sucks.* The only thing it has going for it in my book is it's real cheap."

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Couldn't agree more!* Slow does suck, especially when you are in an area where you might have an 8-10 knot tide off your bow. My boat cruises at 8.5 knots. She will go faster than that at BOT (balls out throttle) but still won't plane. I love this boat but 8-9 knots is really boring.



*


-- Edited by SeaHorse II on Tuesday 19th of January 2010 10:12:34 AM

Baker wrote:

Cool man. Sedans and tri-cabins are the same(except that darn pesky aft cabin). We'll leave it at that.

I'd keep falling into or tripping over that darn pesky aft cabin.....

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One advantage of the aft cabin is if one has guests aboard for an extended time it does provide a number of degrees of separation.* I think our friends from France really appreciated the privacy of having their own cabin and head at the other end of the boat from "those other people."* Granted, if a sedan/europa is big enough you can have two private staterooms up forward although they usually share the same head and while the cabins are separate it's not quite the same as being totally removed from the other occupants of the boat.* Having two separate staterooms or cabins no matter where they're located is far preferable, I think, to having to make up a berth in the main cabin every evening and then take it apart the next morning before the main cabin, galley, etc. can be used.* This is one of the disadvantages of the GB32 and the GB36 Sedan and Europa models.

So in terms of cabin arrangements with guests aboard, for the size of our boat we like the tri-cabin a lot.* And even without guests it's nice to have that totally separate forward cabin in which we can put or keep "stuff" without having to move or stow it every time we want to go to bed.*

However, in this rainy, damp climate were we in the market for a new (to us) trawler-type boat we would get a Europa, preferably a pilothouse, with its big covered and encloseable aft deck.* While we know nothing about their quality and construction, the Krogen is in our opinion an ideal boat for this environment in the 37-42 foot range.* With a tri-cabin, if the weather's bad you're only choice is to be inside.* With a europa, you can be outside even if the outside is wet and cold.

Sundecks are not popular up here, I guess because there's never any sun and from what I hear from people a complete walkaround deck is greatly preferred because of the nature of the docks that are used in the PNW and on up into SE Alaska.* In the case of GBs, which call their sundeck model a Motoryacht, when the local GB dealer gets one in they take forever to sell.* There is one currently in their fleet that has been for sale for as long as I can remember.* Their comparably priced Europas go very fast as do the Classics (tri-cabins).

But they're all too damn slow!



*


-- Edited by Marin on Tuesday 19th of January 2010 12:00:38 PM

IMHO, the GB42 Europa is quite possibly the prettiest boat out there. The proportions are just right. And I fully agree reference guests being on the other side of the boat versus on the other side of a wall. The GB Europas Are small boats for their size....like most sedans. But they are knee buckling hear stopping pretty. The 36 Europa is right up there with it. The Europas fetch good money. Even if we could afford one, we still probably wouldn't just because of the teak. The 52EU has an aft cabin so you could get some seperation there.....if you have a million bucks.

Baker wrote:

The 36 Europa is right up there with it. The Europas fetch good money. Even if we could afford one, we still probably wouldn't just because of the teak.

Click to expand...

If you get a very late one, say late 1990s or 2000s before they stopped making them, it is not uncommon to find them with the only external teak being the caprail (which for some reason on a GB "heritage"*apparently*had to be wood), the name boards, and the transom planks.* And sometimes one*teak trim strip delineating the break between the*base of the flying*bridge and the lower cabin.* Handrails, grab rails, hatch frames,*etc. are all stainless.* All the ones I've seen have teak decks, but the very latest ones prior to the shutdown of the line may have glued-down planks rather than screwed-down planks.* GB went to glued-down decking at some point, but I don't know when.

I note my Defever 48 is designed with aft cabin and no teak decks just like Baker*lusts after, but at far less money. OOPS did I attempt to one up

DeFever has always offered tremendous value in the trawler segment. And when they do "fully depreciate"(whatever that means), their residual value is usually quite high!!! I have always been a fan of the 44/49.....also the 49RPH...although they have a tendency to be littered with teak. The new pilothouse DeFevers are awesome....but now we are dreaming...