Docking a twin screw boat...

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Baker

Baker

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Okay, for all of you captains(both real and imagined) that have twin screw boats....

From now on, when you come in for a landing you are not allowed to use "differential thrust" to maneuver the boat. Only forward and reverse at the same time on both engines.

Otherwise, you will be considered a pussy by your friends. You will be harrissed and harangued by the awesome boat handlers at the yacht club. You will have to hang your head low in total shame because you chose to use the resources at hand to complete a successful(and otherwise pretty) docking maneuver!! Of course, if you do use differential thrust, it will be considered CHEATING!!!

See how stupid that sounds. That is EXACTLY the same treatment people with singles and bow thrusters get when they use the resources at hand to complete a successful(and otherwise pretty) docking maneuver. So give it a rest until you start docking your twin screw boat without differential thrust!!!!

Just a little perspective!!!! Now....as you were!!!
:):););):banghead::banghead::hide::hide:
 
:lol: Can you imagine two old salts talking on the wharf years ago... "That guy is totally cheating. He has one of those new 'engines' in his boat. Only real sailors sail in and out of the harbor!"

A couple of years ago I was working in the Lats & Atts booth at the Seattle Boat Show. We were selling the WinchRite - a cordless electric winch handle. We had lots of people tell us things like the product added years to their sailing, or because of injuries allowed them to grind winches without pain. But about once an hour two guys would walk up, scoff at it, and say things like "That's not real sailing." So I finally got tired of that attitude, and I would smile and respond with "Oh, so your boat doesn't have an engine?" "Well, yeah, it does..." "Then you probably don't have roller furling." "Yeah, I do, but..." "Or refrigeration, or pressure water, or automatic bilge pumps..." To their credit, most guys did get my point.
 
Turn the stereo up real LOUD.
Then they can't hear the thruster:thumb:
 
"Oh, that's not a thruster you hear. My wife is just down below grinding coffee."
 
My buddy:

img_180544_0_14c63a6112beb2d9ca8fc106152e8e68.jpg
 
The Eagle bow thruster is hydraulic so it is very quiet. The movement/rush of the water is all they hear. Being we very seldom take the Eagle out, so when we do take the Eagle out, they are so shocked they don’t notice/mention the docking. :D;)
 
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I think most of the flack given is more about not installing one and learning to handle your single engine with skill and spring lines (the measures of experience but not totally) rather than having one already and not using it.

I think if you use one and dock perfectly in bad conditions...you are still admired whether you used the thruster or not. Many skippers with thrusters still bang around and make docking difficult even in nice conditions.

So listen closely to what all the thruster input really is...it's usually only the extremes of "no you don't"... "yes you do" that get people upset.
 
Is the method of getting the boat to the dock really important? What is important is that it is done, expeditiously and safely. You should use all the means at your disposal. If I had a bow thruster I would certainly use it if needed. :nonono:

It really doesn't matter how another skipper accomplishes the landing . . . . Just as long as they do so without blocking the channel or crashing into the dock or another boat in the process.
 
psneeld said:
I think most of the flack given is more about not installing one and learning to handle your single engine with skill and spring lines (the measures of experience but not totally) rather than having one already and not using it.
Click to expand...

Managed OK without the thruster (with single engine) when it wasn't working for several months in 2011. Still, it's much easier close-in-maneuvering with the thruster. Its noise has lately brought forth my new-but-temporary neighbor (long-range cruiser) who offers to take a line when the Coot returns to dock.

The LRC is to my portside:

img_180567_0_a0b8c4a1a832260e0a1c4d2e2c21d74f.jpg
 
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Edelweiss said:
Is the method of getting the boat to the dock really important? What is important is that it is done, expeditiously and safely. You should use all the means at your disposal. If I had a bow thruster I would certainly use it if needed. :nonono:

It really doesn't matter how another skipper accomplishes the landing . . . . Just as long as they do so without blocking the channel or crashing into the dock or another boat in the process.
Click to expand...

I think the age old argument is if the thruster goes out...is the skipper good enough to dock it without? Or humble enough to go dock somewhere else without damaging other's boats?

Many think that whether you have them or not..practice without them when you are able to and learn to use springlines are a couple of things to have in your bag of tricks as you become more experienced.

Just like knowing basic nav without a chartplotter...usually a good idea and not too many boaters frown upon even pro capts for using one.

It's all about getting the job art of boating done with no muss or fuss. The trick is can you do it all the time without all the gizmo that can fail you??? And if you can't... are you good enough to recognize it and follow plan "B"???
 
I'd rather be with a single-engined boat with a broken thruster than a twin-engined boat with one out of commission.
 
markpierce said:
I'd rather be with a single-engined boat with a broken thruster than a twin-engined boat with one out of commission.
Click to expand...

Very true...I was often summoned to dock different vessels that were coming in on one and some were a real bear...

I think the worst was the early 2000's Sea Ray 38 footers with gas engines...the props and rudders were tiny and the pockets for the props made turning the vessel into the dead engine a near impossibility in slow, close quarters maneuvering.
 
IMO, anything that makes boating safer, easier, more reliable, less stressful, more comfortable and/or more enjoyable should be used when available. This isn't a competition and, for many of us, it's not a job. We're doing this to chase our dreams and to have fun.
 
as long as the sipper is safe with it or without it is the ultimate goal.
 
Al, I agree with you. :thumb:
 
Single Screw, stern in, no thruster. Gentleman's agreement with the wind.

And... my girl's got a big butt. Just takes patience and practice.
 

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Ben said:
Single Screw, stern in, no thruster. Gentleman's agreement with the wind.

And... my girl's got a big butt. Just takes patience and practice.
Click to expand...


Fat bottomed girls,
You make the rockin' world go round.
 
Like to think the Coot has broad shoulders:

img_180635_0_786da30e7be4179e25783f298e0fee4e.jpg


And a tight butt:

img_180635_1_83080ba35b6aee75613e42a4227116ba.jpg
 
My fat round bottomed girl does all right, but I'm still working on that gentleman's agreement with the wind. We are working towards a compromise.

I am slowly increasing the wind speed cutoff point for taking the boat out as my confidence increases. Out on the water is not an issue; just the marina manovering is limiting me to 20-25 knots at the moment especially when I am singlehanded.

In a way, I am glad I don't have a bow thruster, as it is forcing me to learn how to deal with a single in these situations. With a thruster, I would play it safe and use it. Without, I make mistakes, learn from them, and take several attempts at berthing the boat.
I
 
psneeld said:
I think the age old argument is if the thruster goes out...is the skipper good enough to dock it without? Or humble enough to go dock somewhere else without damaging other's boats?

Many think that whether you have them or not..practice without them when you are able to and learn to use springlines are a couple of things to have in your bag of tricks as you become more experienced.

Just like knowing basic nav without a chartplotter...usually a good idea and not too many boaters frown upon even pro capts for using one.

It's all about getting the job art of boating done with no muss or fuss. The trick is can you do it all the time without all the gizmo that can fail you??? And if you can't... are you good enough to recognize it and follow plan "B"???
Click to expand...

AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH....Okay!! Now I get it!!! In keeping with the logic of this thread. How often do you practice docking your boat with one engine???....just in case one goes out???.... That is rhetorical because I know the answer.

I had a boat with a bow thruster for almost 7 years and the bow thruster quit working exactly ZERO times. I have owned this twin engine boat for 4 months and have already had to come in on one engine. I did a fine job BTW but it was out of necessity...not because I practiced.I would be willing to bet that if we did a survey, that there would be a pretty high percentage of twin engine boat owners who have had to come in on one engine and that there would be a pretty high percentage of bow thruster owners that have never had the thruster fail!...just a guess on my part.

PS...I am just messing with you to some degree. Obviously, you should be able to handle your boat. And I do like your reference to judgement. There is a saying in aviation that goes something like this:
A Superior pilot uses his superior judgement so he does NOT have to use his superior skills!!!
And coincidently, in aviation, when we are in initial and recurrent training, the number one main focus is landing(and taking off) on one engine(in multi-engine aircraft).
 
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AusCan said:
I am slowly increasing the wind speed cutoff point for taking the boat out as my confidence increases. Out on the water is not an issue; just the marina manovering is limiting me to 20-25 knots at the moment especially when I am singlehanded.
Click to expand...


DUDE!!! Why do you want to be out on the water in anything over 25kts??? I mean, I realize we can get caught out there in it. But I would not voluntarily leave the slip with winds over 25kts!!!!!
 
Baker said:
AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH....Okay!! Now I get it!!! In keeping with the logic of this thread. How often do you practice docking your boat with one engine???....just in case one goes out???.... That is rhetorical because I know the answer.

I had a boat with a bow thruster for almost 7 years and the bow thruster quit working exactly ZERO times. I have owned this twin engine boat for 4 months and have already had to come in on one engine. I did a fine job BTW but it was out of necessity...not because I practiced.I would be willing to bet that if we did a survey, that there would be a pretty high percentage of twin engine boat owners who have had to come in on one engine and that there would be a pretty high percentage of bow thruster owners that have never had the thruster fail!...just a guess on my part.

PS...I am just messing with you to some degree. Obviously, you should be able to handle your boat. And I do like your reference to judgement. There is a saying in aviation that goes something like this:
A Superior pilot uses his superior judgement so he does NOT have to use his superior skills!!!
And coincidently, in aviation, when we are in initial and recurrent training, the number one main focus is landing(and taking off) on one engine(in multi-engine aircraft).
Click to expand...

You were lucky with your thruster.

As an instructor captain for Marine Max (mostly a Sea Ray dealership)...I saw thruster failure happen many times.

The new owner would be real confident...the winds or current would be stronger than normal one day...the skipper would over rely on the thruster and use it till the CB popped...then he was in over his head with the thruster..and now he didn't have it at all or with the autoreset CB (which they really should be for thrusters)...it would only come back to life after it was too late. In those cases it got messy sometimes.

I too have heard all the aviation parallels...20+ years/5000+ hrs of rotary wing time....but I rarely try to use aviation or driving parallels as I see boating as a much slower and relaxing event as long as you take it at your own level and are prepared for equipment or conditions change.
 
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Baker said:
DUDE!!! Why do you want to be out on the water in anything over 25kts??? I mean, I realize we can get caught out there in it. But I would not voluntarily leave the slip with winds over 25kts!!!!!
Click to expand...

This is a fairly breezy part of the world. If you want to boat, you have to learn to deal with the wind.
Looking at the next week's forecast, only one day of 7 is predicted with winds less than 20 knots.
Adelaide Weather Forecast (Swell, Wind, Tide, Rain & Temperature)
 
psneeld said:
I too have heard all the aviation parallels...20+ years/5000+ hrs of rotary wing time....but I rarely try to use aviation or driving parallels as I see boating as a much slower and relaxing event as long as you take it at your own level and are prepared for equipment or conditions change.
Click to expand...
I have a few flying hours as well and have always found flying and boating to be closely connected. The forces that act on planes are the very same forces that act on a boat. The only difference is the density of the "fluid" both machines are traveling through. Similarities that are applicable are: stall vs. wallow, crosswinds vs. current, head winds vs. current & tides, dihedral vs. deadrise, landing vs. docking. list vs. weight & balance and a host of others. No, IMO the two are very closely related and to those that have never flown, don't fret, as you are doing it, albeit at a much slower speed. :blush:
 

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at a much slower speed...yep....

one I would have died in the blink of an eye.....

the other I get up, take a pee, fix a sandwich, read a paragraph...then turn the wheel in anticipation of the next mark.

OK...I'll be fair...boat racing or tight quarters maneuvering in 25+ knots of wind or 3+ knots of current may be similar...but I haven't exerted as much mind or body in the last 15 years of boating as I did in one hour of flying....well maybe again I'm not being fair...my kind of flying....
 
AusCan said:
This is a fairly breezy part of the world. If you want to boat, you have to learn to deal with the wind.
Looking at the next week's forecast, only one day of 7 is predicted with winds less than 20 knots.
Adelaide Weather Forecast (Swell, Wind, Tide, Rain & Temperature)
Click to expand...

I have found the key to a good docking is to sit back and size up the forces that will be acting on the boat ie: wind and current. Then look at where you need to put the boat. Take another few minutes if necessary to figure how to use the forces nature is giving you to assist in the docking. Fighting nature is usually a losing proposition. Get fenders, dock, and spring lines in position. If you have crew, tell them exactly what you intend to do, and instruct them on what you want them to do. With a good plan and an informed crew things should go smoothly. Notice that yelling was not mentioned as necessary.
 
The one thing reference flying as it relates to boating(as I said above) is JUDGEMENT and decision making. Like Don said above...being able to see the big picture and being able to make decisions and execute a plan based on the information and resources available. I have been in some VERY hairy situations flying with 250 people in the back counting on me. So as long as nobody gets hurt and I don't crash someone else's boat, I am happy. IOW, don't get ruffled easily. Getting ruffled is one of the big things that novice boaters have a hard time with...hence the yelling! You get ruffled and it affects your judgement and hence your performance. So the experience of operating aircraft does translate to operating a boat as it relates to judgement and how you approach problem solving/decision making....IMO
 
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Threat and Error Management

This is a link to Continental's TEM program as developed by Continental and Univ of Texas. It is the model of the industry. While some things may not be relevant, most are. The safety culture at airlines used to be "Don't make mistakes". Well, we are human and we make mistakes. Now it is more a matter of being able to identify threats(current, wind, schedule constraints, crew/no crew, traffic, etc.) and being able to manage those threats and realize their impact on the operation. And also realize the potential for errors(UAS...unsafe/undesired aircraft state) and being able to manage those errors before they become consequences(crunch). A spring line would be an example of forward thinking and managing the situation before an error can occur!!! Anyway, if you are open minded and can translate this from planes to boats, it is extremely good stuff!!!...just go through the slides....it is basically a powerpoint. It is overly simplified but if you can inject a little imagination into it and how it relates to certain situations, it is good stuff.

PPT – Threat and Error Management: 6th Generation CRM Training PowerPoint presentation | free to download
 
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I have made up a few rules for myself, since this was my first boat of any size.. let me know how crazy they are to you guys...

1) NEVER go faster in the marina then I am willing to hit something at

2)i ALWAYS use both engines to dock, im not too proud to show off my abilities to dock with less then what is best suited for my limited abilities...

3)Before I am in the marina, and have slowed my RPMs I make sure both engines are engaging in reverse a couple of times

4)Once in the marina I have my rudders straight and only steer with the forward and reverse action of the engines. I have to nose into a corner between the dock and the shore (about 40 feet of room at high tide), flip my boat around 180 degrees and siddle up to the dock.

I have used one engine to dock, cuz I had to, i managed, but didnt like it...lol
 
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