Two Nordhavns

cardude01 · Sep 19, 2013

I'm still looking for a boat. Been looking for awhile. Flip Flopped many times. I started looking at cheaper boats, but now I'm trying to look for my "second boat" first. More boat than I need currently, but like I said I'm looking for the second boat now.

I've found a couple of "older" Nordhavn 46s that I like, and I need some help comparing if anyone is interested:

Nordhavn 1:

1989 Hull #1

Lugger 143 hp with 5300 hours 8kw Northern Lightes genset with 2500 hrs
Amidships Master layout with guest cabin forward
Hydraulic bow and stern thrusters
Wing engine
Electronics mostly updated around 2007-2008
Sat phone
SSB radio
Helm Chair
Two new compressors 2008
watermaker

Electronics pkg:
SIMRAD AP2622 Auto Pilot with AC20, RPU160, RFC36 Rate Compass and RF300 Rudder ref. (NEW 2008 ) Interconnected to New C120 Chart Plotter.
Nobeltec AIS 100 Receiver with SeaCAS Antenna. Integrated with C 120 Radar and Chart Plotter.
Raytheon RG425 Chart plotter
Raytheon C120 Chart Plotter and RD424 4Kw Rdar 24” Radome, (NEW 2007). Navionics XL3 CF Gold East Coast USA, Bahamas, Caribbean, Bermuda, Spain and al Mediterranean countries.
Globalstar satellite telephone
Standard load hailer(2) GPS's - Garman and Raytheon w/ Interface cables for PC
ICOM SSB radio
ICOM VHF radio
Raytheon VHF Radio (MMSI) (NEW 2008 )
5 in. Ritchie compass
Weather fax
406 E.P.I.R.B. (2) (new 2007)
(2) Depth sounders - Datamarine and Raytheon ST60 speed and depth/sea temp. (NEW 2007)
Rudder angle indicator

about $100k less than the following boat:

1998 Nordhavn 46 Hull #59

Lugger 143 HP with 2600 hours 8kw Northern Lights with 1600 hours
Better engine rooom access and room due to no wing engine
Master forward with guest cabin amidships
Electric bow thruster
No wing engine
Original (1998 ) electronics
No helm chair
No sat phone
All new a/c systems installed 2008 (never had a/c-- was a west coast boat)

electronics pkg
Furuno SSB Transceiver Model 1502
Furuno GPS Plotter 1810
Furuno Front Radar GaAs Fet Front End 8-tone daylight display (64 mile)
Furuno Color Fish Finder/depth FCV-600L
Furuno GPS Navigator
Simrad Auto Pilot AP20 with hand held remote
Icon IC M504 VHF Radio
B&G Network Depth/ Speed/Wind
Seahail Loudspeaker with communications speaker in aft cockpit
Ritchie 6” Compass
EPIRD

Both boats are one owner boats in good condition. The older boat is not quite as nice as the newer one, but not too much difference cosmetically. Gel coat good on both, interior more worn on older boat.

I really can't compare the electronics packages very well due to not enough experience, but the older boat's electronics are newer. Any ideas here?

My main struggle/confusion is the wing engine. The cheaper boat has the wing engine, which I really like the idea of, except that it really, really clogs up the already kind of small engine room. Do I even need this wing engine? I see Dashew gave up on the wing engine to reduce complexity and instead went with a sail set up to get him home. Why couldn't a junk sail rig be rigged up for emergencies for downwind sailing, but maybe there is not enough way to rig enough sail area... Seems like the extra shaft and prop sticking out unprotected on the get home could be an issue. Steering issues? Pros and cons on the wing engine idea?

I like the older (cheaper) boat with the wing engine better, but I do worry about the age of the boat a little. Is a 100K savings over the 9 year age difference (assuming both equally well maintained) sound about right? I tend to be a cheap ass, and I don't want that trait to lead me to the wrong decision.

Was there anything "wrong" on the earlier boats that should make me lean towards the "newer" boat? The galley is arranged a little funky on the 1898, but it's not too terrible IMO.

I plan to own the boat at least 7-10 years and then may sell it. Will resale be wildly different from the 100k price difference now? In other words, will the more expensive boat depreciate quicker than the older, cheaper boat? Or vice versa?

Plan to cruise the Gulf of Mexico initially, then the Caribbean and hopefully through the canal eventually to the Pacific side of Costa Rica (have friends there). Is either boat more suitable for my planned cruising? If I want to go to the Mediterranean the older boat has 220v capability, but I don't actually think that will happen. ;-)

What else do I need to look at on my comparison?

Thanks for the help.......

BruceK · Sep 19, 2013

Bay Pelican (Marty) has a wing engine, separately propped, and makes sense when he posts. You could ask him.

koliver · Sep 19, 2013

Resale in 7 to 10 yrs is unpredictable. Today's used boat prices were unthinkable before 2008. I have a 1980 boat, which today, were I to try to sell, is a VERY OLD boat, so the price has collapsed, no matter how it is equipped.
Wing engine: depends on where you plan to go. If you are in the middle of an ocean and lose your main engine, are too far from help to have any other way to get home or off of the boat, you need a wing engine. If you cruise within radio or cell range of help, you don't.
Electronics: Anything more than 5 yrs old is obsolete. Some would say anything old enough to have been installed on your boat is already obsolete. You will be modernizing your electronics at least once in the 7 to 10 years yo plan on.
Worn interior: get an estimate of the cost to freshen it up, you will be surprised how little it takes.
Worn exterior: more $ than inside, by a lot.
just my $.02.

Forkliftt · Sep 19, 2013

cardude01 said:
I'm still looking for a boat. Been looking for awhile. Flip Flopped many times. I started looking at cheaper boats, but now I'm trying to look for my "second boat" first.

I've found a couple of "older" Nordhavn 46s, and I need some help comparing if anyone is interested:

Nordhavn 1:

1989 Hull #1

Lugger 143 hp with 5300 hours 8kw Northern Lightes genset with 2500 hrs
Amidships Master layout with guest cabin forward
Hydraulic bow and stern thrusters
Wing engine
Electronics mostly updated around 2007-2008
Sat phone
SSB radio
Helm Chair
Two new compressors 2008
watermaker

Electronics pkg:
SIMRAD AP2622 Auto Pilot with AC20, RPU160, RFC36 Rate Compass and RF300 Rudder ref. (NEW 2008) Interconnected to New C120 Chart Plotter.
Nobeltec AIS 100 Receiver with SeaCAS Antenna. Integrated with C 120 Radar and Chart Plotter.
Raytheon RG425 Chart plotter
Raytheon C120 Chart Plotter and RD424 4Kw Rdar 24” Radome, (NEW 2007). Navionics XL3 CF Gold East Coast USA, Bahamas, Caribbean, Bermuda, Spain and al Mediterranean countries.
Globalstar satellite telephone
Standard load hailer(2) GPS's - Garman and Raytheon w/ Interface cables for PC
ICOM SSB radio
ICOM VHF radio
Raytheon VHF Radio (MMSI) (NEW 2008)
5 in. Ritchie compass
Weather fax
406 E.P.I.R.B. (2) (new 2007)
(2) Depth sounders - Datamarine and Raytheon ST60 speed and depth/sea temp. (NEW 2007)
Rudder angle indicator

about $100k less than the following boat:

1998 Nordhavn 46 Hull #59

Lugger 143 HP with 2600 hours 8kw Northern Lights with 1600 hours
Better engine rooom access and room due to no wing engine
Master forward with guest cabin amidships
Electric bow thruster
No wing engine
Original (1998) electronics
No helm chair
No sat phone
All new a/c systems installed 2008 (never had a/c-- was a west coast boat)

electronics pkg
Furuno SSB Transceiver Model 1502
Furuno GPS Plotter 1810
Furuno Front Radar GaAs Fet Front End 8-tone daylight display (64 mile)
Furuno Color Fish Finder/depth FCV-600L
Furuno GPS Navigator
Simrad Auto Pilot AP20 with hand held remote
Icon IC M504 VHF Radio
B&G Network Depth/ Speed/Wind
Seahail Loudspeaker with communications speaker in aft cockpit
Ritchie 6” Compass
EPIRD

Both boats are one owner boats in good condition. The older boat is not quite as nice as the newer one, but not too much difference cosmetically. Gel coat good on both, interior more worn on older boat.

I really can't compare the electronics packages very well due to not enough experience, but the older boat's electronics are newer. Any ideas here?

My main struggle/confusion is the wing engine. The cheaper boat has the wing engine, which I really like the idea of, except that it really, really clogs up the already kind of small engine room. Do I even need this wing engine? I see Dashew gave up on the wing engine to reduce complexity and instead went with a sail set up to get him home. Why couldn't a junk sail rig be rigged up for emergencies for downwind sailing, but maybe there is not enough way to rig enough sail area... Seems like the extra shaft and prop sticking out unprotected on the get home could be an issue. Steering issues? Pros and cons on the wing engine idea?

I like the older (cheaper) boat with the wing engine better, but I do worry about the age of the boat a little. Is a 100K savings over the 9 year age difference (assuming both equally well maintained) sound about right? I tend to be a cheap ass, and I don't want that trait to lead me to the wrong decision.

Was there anything "wrong" on the earlier boats that should make me lean towards the "newer" boat? The galley is arranged a little funky on the 1898, but it's not too terrible IMO.

I plan to own the boat at least 7-10 years and then may sell it. Will resale be wildly different from the 100k price difference now? In other words, will the more expensive boat depreciate quicker than the older, cheaper boat? Or vice versa?

Plan to cruise the Gulf of Mexico initially, then the Caribbean and hopefully through the canal eventually to the Pacific side of Costa Rica (have friends there). Is either boat more suitable for my planned cruising? If I want to go to the Mediterranean the older boat has 220v capability, but I don't actually think that will happen. ;-)

What else do I need to look at on my comparison?

Thanks for the help.......

Think in percentages when dealing with price. $100k is a lot of difference on a $400k purchase (25%), but not so much on an $800k boat (12.5%). For 25% savings I would purchase the older vessel.

hollywood8118 · Sep 20, 2013

CarDude,
If you truly think you will go across the Carib. and thru the Canal the wing would be a nice insurance policy.. it can have other uses than just propulsion ( docking, power generation etc. ). The owner if the N57 that I cruise on had a 46, he had to replace the wing at 176hrs as it was toast from non use.. so make sure the current owners have used it or it could be a big liability.

Also the spare $100k can make a big dent in the upgrades you will do to either boat. I always look at boats on what they can do per dollar ... many feel the need to have a newer boat .. I look at them as to what I can do with them in a cost vs. use view.

If you are going to blue water cruise you cannot beat a Nordhavn.. In a few years I plan to join that club.

Happy boat hunting!
HOLLYWOOD

Bay Pelican · Sep 20, 2013

I am ignoring the electronics, and especially the Globalstar sat phone. These will be replaced sooner or later regardless of which boat you choose.

You fail to mention stabilizers on either boat. That is a $30,000 to $40,000 item.

Two items stand out. The older boat has both a wing engine and hydraulic bow and stern thrusters. Both of these are desirable items on a Nordhavn. I can't tell whether you are an East Coast or West Coast boater. A 46 ft Nordhavn would not be the optimal choice for using as a coastal cruiser. Nordhavns are built for open water not marina hopping on the Atlantic ICW. If you are planning to frequent the Bahamas, Caribbean or cross the Atlantic the wing engine moves up to the realm of near necessity, or at least peace of mine. If you are planning on going into marinas the hydraulic bow and stern thrusters (versus and electric bow thruster) will be the joy of your life.

Can't tell which would be a better investment (a boat as an investment?).

Already mentioned is the necessity on checking the wing engine for use. If it hasn't been used it might be useless. I, like others with wing engines, regularly use mine even if only to charge the batteries.

The older boat you are looking at appears to be at the bottom of the price range for the Nordhavn 46s, and is 25% less than the others on Yachtworld. It will always sell for less. However in ten years it will be a 34 year old boat versus the newer one which will then be a 25 year old boat. Will buyers consider that a difference at that time?

Good luck, I doubt if you can go wrong on this choice.

Marty

FF · Sep 20, 2013

I hope you have toured both vessels , and are not doing a paper comp.

The Nordys are built for offshore so are tight inside , big tanks ,take away volume.

The chopped up interior is great as you can not be tossed too far underway ,
but the dance to go from area to area is different from a more wide open inshore boat.

The hull 25 or 40 years old would not be a problem , but there will be more efficient engines to replace the std engine.

Now that even the UN has given up on the ,global warming, HOAX we can expect 10-20% more efficient engines.

Inshore at 3GPH, 20% doesnt mean much , but the distance to dry tanks getting 20% better on a cruiser is of interest.

cardude01 · Sep 20, 2013

Bay Pelican said:
I am ignoring the electronics, and especially the Globalstar sat phone. These will be replaced sooner or later regardless of which boat you choose.

You fail to mention stabilizers on either boat. That is a $30,000 to $40,000 item.

Two items stand out. The older boat has both a wing engine and hydraulic bow and stern thrusters. Both of these are desirable items on a Nordhavn. I can't tell whether you are an East Coast or West Coast boater. A 46 ft Nordhavn would not be the optimal choice for using as a coastal cruiser. Nordhavns are built for open water not marina hopping on the Atlantic ICW. If you are planning to frequent the Bahamas, Caribbean or cross the Atlantic the wing engine moves up to the realm of near necessity, or at least peace of mine. If you are planning on going into marinas the hydraulic bow and stern thrusters (versus and electric bow thruster) will be the joy of your life.

Can't tell which would be a better investment (a boat as an investment?).

Already mentioned is the necessity on checking the wing engine for use. If it hasn't been used it might be useless. I, like others with wing engines, regularly use mine even if only to charge the batteries.

The older boat you are looking at appears to be at the bottom of the price range for the Nordhavn 46s, and is 25% less than the others on Yachtworld. It will always sell for less. However in ten years it will be a 34 year old boat versus the newer one which will then be a 25 year old boat. Will buyers consider that a difference at that time?

Good luck, I doubt if you can go wrong on this choice.

Marty

Marty

I am an East Coast boater-- Gulf Coast specifically. We will be coastal cruising the first few years and then more blue water cruising after that due to other commitments ending in 4 years. We are planning on some Bahamas trips during those 4 years however, and plan on Gulf crossings from Texas to the Bahamas.

Sorry, I forgot to mention that both boats have paravane type stabilizers, and the older boat also has flopper stoppers for while at anchor.

Thanks for this info on the wing engine. The wing engine only has 140 hours on it and the main has 5300, so I wonder if it has been "exercised" enough. Opinion?

Gotcha on the electronics. This is another reason I'm leaning toward the cheaper boat, to leave more room in the budget for upgrades.

My thoughts are like yours that in 10 years the boats may be valued more similarly since they are now both pretty old boats.

cardude01 · Sep 20, 2013

FF said:
I hope you have toured both vessels , and are not doing a paper comp.

The Nordys are built for offshore so are tight inside , big tanks ,take away volume.

The chopped up interior is great as you can not be tossed too far underway ,
but the dance to go from area to area is different from a more wide open inshore boat.

The hull 25 or 40 years old would not be a problem , but there will be more efficient engines to replace the std engine.

Now that even the UN has given up on the ,global warming, HOAX we can expect 10-20% more efficient engines.

Inshore at 3GPH, 20% doesnt mean much , but the distance to dry tanks getting 20% better on a cruiser is of interest.

We have toured a local boat and plan on looking at the non local boat soon. The wife liked the interior setup and exterior room, but sad it did not have a flybridge. The engine room was really not as constricted as I had worried it would be with all the tanks, but I do worry about the engine room on the non local boat (with the wing engine) being very cramped.

Bay Pelican · Sep 20, 2013

140 hours in 24 years (wonder when installed) is on the light end but certainly not fatal. What you would be looking for is 30 minutes once a month just to keep it lubricated and broken in. Find out if there is a record of oil samples, maintenance etc.

If I were buying the boat I would probably go with the 1989. But then I have a 1985 Krogen which I have had for 15 years.

Marty

Boydski · Sep 20, 2013

I have to agree with Marty's post way above. I'd go with the older boat as well. The Hydraulic Bow and Stern Thrusters and wing engine are very desirable features and the Mid-Master layout is also much more comfortable (and quiet) than the newer boat's Fwd Master layout.

Wing engines are very nice to have when you are making long trips. If the main stops for any reason (clogged fuel filters, stoopid owner tricks, etc.), you just fire up the wing and it will keep you off the rocks and pointed into the weather. :facepalm:

The $100,000 price difference would buy a LOT of electronics if you're really concerned about them. Furuno is generally considered to be better gear than Raymarine, but if it is really old, it will need to be replaced at some point anyway.

Good Luck with your new Nordhavn!

Codger2 · Sep 20, 2013

Boydski said:
I have to agree with Marty's post way above. I'd go with the older boat as well.

While cruising the Sea of Cortez quite a few years ago, I made friends with a gentleman and his wife that had a Nordy 46. It had the wing engine, stabilizer fish, great electronics, etc. and was a most impressive & salty looking boat. Were I a long distance cruiser at that time I would have had one. The reality, though, was that I commuted to San Carlos, Mexico by air and was not a long distance cruiser but rather I was a died in the wool "gunkholer." As such, I found the interior of the N46 to be quite small, chopped up and not conducive to the full enjoyment I sought when cruising in warm water areas. (swimming, diving, fishing, etc.) The cockpit was too small, on deck space was limited by all the rigging the boat has, etc.

The N46 is probably the first truly recreational blue water trawler that was marketed as such and is a very strong & capable boat. It's not for everyone, however, and it would be very wise to separate your dreams from reality when buying a boat. In other words, what do you really (honestly) expect to do with the boat?

Pau Hana · Sep 20, 2013

No dog in the fight (yet) as a Nordhavn is a dream yet realized for us. My take: the age of the boats are really moot, considering the intended usage. Equipment takes precedence- engines, thrusters, etc. My vote is for the older vessel with the wing engine.

The electronics will probably be the first gear replaced- the latest generation of Raymarine MFDs and glass bridges (post-FLIR acquisition) are truly state of the art, and are worth a serious look. They are easy to use, offer excellent networkability, and are a true integrated package.

cardude01 · Sep 20, 2013

SeaHorse II said:
While cruising the Sea of Cortez quite a few years ago, I made friends with a gentleman and his wife that had a Nordy 46. It had the wing engine, stabilizer fish, great electronics, etc. and was a most impressive & salty looking boat. Were I a long distance cruiser at that time I would have had one. The reality, though, was that I commuted to San Carlos, Mexico by air and was not a long distance cruiser but rather I was a died in the wool "gunkholer." As such, I found the interior of the N46 to be quite small, chopped up and not conducive to the full enjoyment I sought when cruising in warm water areas. (swimming, diving, fishing, etc.) The cockpit was too small, on deck space was limited by all the rigging the boat has, etc.

The N46 is probably the first truly recreational blue water trawler that was marketed as such and is a very strong & capable boat. It's not for everyone, however, and it would be very wise to separate your dreams from reality when buying a boat. In other words, what do you really (honestly) expect to do with the boat?

Good points. I will be the fist to admit I am looking at too much of a blue water boat for our initial cruising plans. I can honestly see us going to the Bahamas for a few weeks in June. We have chartered there and really liked it. I can also see me and a buddy crossing the Gulf from Texas to Florida weather permitting to get to the Bahamas. The Caribbean may be pie in the sky dreaming, but I hope not. Same with the Panama Canal trip to the west coast. I doubt I will ever cross the Atlantic.

So I would call it semi realistic dreaming...

Sent from my iPhone using Trawler

Bay Pelican · Sep 20, 2013

A 46 Nordhavn with stabilizers makes the Caribbean not pie in the sky, but a why not destination. The boat anchored next to me at least one month every year in St. Lucia is a Nordhavn 46. (She is also stored for the summer right next to Bay Pelican.) Another Nordhavn 46 was our buddy boat from the Bahamas to Trinidad.

Best of luck

Marty

gwkiwi · Sep 20, 2013

I seriously looked at several Nordhavn 46's on both coasts and have always been impressed by their design, quality, build and proven capabiity.

We finally decided on my Defever 49 RPH for a significant amount less than the Nordhavn cost which has proven good for us.

However make sure you check out the different model 46's as there are true pros and cons between them especially with access to master etc. Also the newer ones have the fiberglass fuel tanks which can be advantageous.

If you are familiar with N46 Egret you may or may not know that she has just come on the market this week under private sale - go to the Nordhavn site look for Egrets blog and contact Scott directly.

Good luck.

cardude01 · Sep 21, 2013

What about, instead of a wing engine, one just loaded up on spare parts for the main that would disable the engine. Fuel lines, injector pump, injectors, lift pump, alternator, water pump, what else?

Wouldn't that be cheaper than a wing setup?

Sent from my iPhone using Trawler

CPseudonym · Sep 21, 2013

That would be my take. I've read the arguments pro and con regarding wing engines. My take is if reliability of a single concerns you that much buy a twin and get it over with. I'm a single engine fan but would prefer a twin over a seldom used wing engine arrangement.

Sounds as though you're leaning toward the newer boat to me.

N4061 · Sep 21, 2013

I would strongly suggest touching base with the Nordhavn Office in Dana Point California and request a list of factory changes between both boats. There were a number of improvements made during the production run including the type of materials used on the fuel and water tanks. Some of these changes alone are worth searching for a newer boats. Regarding Paravans versus Active Fins Stabilizers, I strongly suggest you take your time and investigate the pros and cons of both. Finally I would suggest you dig deep and really understand how you plan to use the boat and if the N46 is the right boat for you. Best of luck

John T. (N4050 & N4061 - former owner looking for N3)

cardude01 · Sep 22, 2013

N4061 said:
I would strongly suggest touching base with the Nordhavn Office in Dana Point California and request a list of factory changes between both boats. There were a number of improvements made during the production run including the type of materials used on the fuel and water tanks. Some of these changes alone are worth searching for a newer boats. Regarding Paravans versus Active Fins Stabilizers, I strongly suggest you take your time and investigate the pros and cons of both. Finally I would suggest you dig deep and really understand how you plan to use the boat and if the N46 is the right boat for you. Best of luck

John T. (N4050 & N4061 - former owner looking for N3)

Thanks for the info. I will contact the Dana Point office and find out the differences.

Are you suggesting the N46 is not the right boat for what we want to do? I see you lived on N40s for some time so I value your input.

Chrisjs · Sep 22, 2013

I hesitated to post because it is a while since I looked at the N46. My recollection is that these boats have very small engine rooms. If my memory serves me correctly, access was though the back of the shower stall or a small floor hatch. Either access point would barely permit ingress for myself as a normal sized 180lb male. If you have not been on board either vessel, would strongly suggest taking a look. The one I remember would have made routine maintenance a nightmare!!

Codger2 · Sep 22, 2013

N4061 said:
Finally I would suggest you dig deep and really understand how you plan to use the boat and if the N46 is the right boat for you. Best of luck

Damn good advice!

cardude01 · Sep 22, 2013

Chrisjs said:
I hesitated to post because it is a while since I looked at the N46. My recollection is that these boats have very small engine rooms. If my memory serves me correctly, access was though the back of the shower stall or a small floor hatch. Either access point would barely permit ingress for myself as a normal sized 180lb male. If you have not been on board either vessel, would strongly suggest taking a look. The one I remember would have made routine maintenance a nightmare!!

There are two configurations of the N46 from what I understand so far. One has the master amidships and guest bedroom foreword, and the other config is flip flopped with the smaller guest cabin amidships. With the master in the middle the access to part of the engine room is actually through a door in the shower of the master cabin. I have not been on his config yet, and I have to admit that it sounds kind of strange. I am scheduled to go see an N46 with this layout and one of my concerns is engine room access and room to do maintenance, especially as this boat also has the wing engine.

I have been aboard an N46 with the master forward layout, and engine room access is through a door in the guest cabin as well as through hatches in the salon. No shower door access. I spent some time crawling around that engine room and it was cramped but well laid out IMO. I think with the salon hatches off it would be OK for maintenance. I'm 6'2" and I def had to crawl around on hands and knees to get to either side of the main, but once there I had room to sit up and check things out.

But I do agree that the engine rooms are certainly not the boat's strongest feature to say the least.

cardude01 · Sep 22, 2013

SeaHorse II said:
Damn good advice!

<i>Originally Posted by N4061
Finally I would suggest you dig deep and really understand how you plan to use the boat and if the N46 is the right boat for you. Best of luck</i>

This is the second time you have made this comment about making sure we really understand how we plan to use the boat, so I have to ask what it is I have said that is throwing up this red flag for you?

I think I have admitted that we are not initially going to need, nor do we have the experience for, all of the blue water capabilities of this boat. My thought process is I would rather have this capability so that if we eventually DECIDE we are ready for bigger adventures won't have to sell one boat and buy another. That's what I am trying to bypass by buying the second boat first, but maybe I am not looking at this correctly? I am trying to buy the most capable boat I can that still fits in my budget (the reason for the older Nordhavns).

Do I think this is the perfect Bahamas or great loop boat? No. Is it the perfect boat for my current shallow Gulf Coast area? Nope. Does it lack a fly bridge, and would I like to have one? Yes, but I'm willing to make that tradeoff for what I THINK I want to do later with the boat. Is there the possibility that I'm full of crap and wont actually use the boat for what it was really designed for? I suppose so, but I hope not.

cardude01 · Sep 22, 2013

I just realized I might sound a little like a Nordhavn champion with my posts on this thread, but I'm not stuck on Nordhavn. My thinking was trying to get the most capable boat for the money, and maybe by sticking to a known, quality brand that it might be easier to sell when we are ready to get out, or if plans changed for whatever reason.

I'm certainly open to ideas on other boats!

ksanders · Sep 22, 2013

Cardude

When several people have questiond wether the Nordhavn 46 is the right boat for you, what they were meaning is does the N46 fit your actual cruising plans.

The reason is that many people dream of cruising the south pacific for example, but those dreams never come true. Reality sets in and they end up with a cruising style that does not involve long bluewater passages.

We all know that all boats are a compromise. You can only fit so much space in so much length.

The Nordhavn boats make the compromise in favor of long distance cruising capability. Other boats make other compromises.

In order to demonstrate those compromises lets take the Nordhavn 46 and compare it to my Bayliner 4788.

I'm sitting in my 4788 right now and mentally comparing it to the Nordhavn 46 three slips away.

The Nordhavn 46 is much smaller inside. Much smaller. For example my pilothouse is twice the size of the Nordhavn pilothouse. I have a real captains chair. No room for this in the Nordhavn.

These comparisons could go on and on. The Nordhavn is a much smaller boat inside.

But, comfort isnt what the Nordhavn was built for. That boat could take off today for Seattle and not stop for fuel. I cant do that. I'd have to stop twice along the way.

The Nordhavn can comfortably go out in seas that would keep my boat tied to the dock.

The Nordhavn could and has circumnavigated the globe. I cant do that.

The Nordhavn is also a full displacement boat, 7 knots is it. I can cruise at 15 knots if I want. I can get twice as far on a weekend trip, or a week long trip than the Nordhavn. I made a 1500NM trip last year in 12 days. My son had 2 weeks of vacation, and we made the trip meet his available time. That would not happen in a Nordhavn.

So, if your actual (not your dream) cruising plans call for the things that the Nordhavns do best, then buy one, they are all great boats.

But, if your cruising plans could be acomplished with a boat that has more interior room, or more power, you might consider a different boat.

Remember that cruising is time aboard, and space = comfort when sitting at anchor, or tied to a dock with you and the admrial exploring a new place.

sunchaser · Sep 22, 2013

Cardude01

Having been on many Nordhavns and seriously made offers on them, not mentioned in the many good responses you have received is cost. Not only will you pay much more to purchase the boat than a similar sized very good heavy sea state boat like a DeFever, but the upkeep/refit cost to keep and bring a 15 to 25 year old Nordhavn to brand and blue water standard should be considered.

I'd liken it to the all in cost comparison of an older Beechcraft vs a Cessna or Toyota Highlander vs a BMW X5. IF you can afford it with no cost concerns buy the newer N46. If you are worried about the additional $100K of the newer, but likely cheaper in the long run vessel, you may not be a Nordhavn guy - yet.

Codger2 · Sep 22, 2013

cardude01 said:
This is the second time you have made this comment about making sure we really understand how we plan to use the boat, so I have to ask what it is I have said that is throwing up this red flag for you?

Do I think this is the perfect Bahamas or great loop boat? No. Is it the perfect boat for my current shallow Gulf Coast area? Nope. Does it lack a fly bridge, and would I like to have one? Yes, but I'm willing to make that tradeoff for what I THINK I want to do later with the boat.

Your question is a fair one and deserves an honest response.

I bought my first big boat (48' Offshore Yacht Fisher) in 1995. I had ideas, dreams, etc. of cruising to Mexico and points beyond. I also thought that we would invite numerous friends to share the adventure with. None of it happened.

I then bought a boat (42' Ocean Alex) that had 20 knot cruise speed and a small guest stateroom. It was (and still is!) a great Southern California cruising boat. I fished it in Mexico, cruised all over SoCal and finally sold it in order to buy a 54' Sport fisher. (I would find out later that this (the 42' Ocean Alex) was the boat I should have kept as it fit the actual "mission" that my wife & I enjoyed.)

The decision to buy the sport fisher was based on a burning desire to join the Bill Fish tournaments in Mexico, Catalina. etc. The boat was just what one needed to compete on an equal basis with hard core bill fish anglers. I spent over $500K on this boat and never entered one tournament. I finally sold it and bought a smaller sport fisher (38') that more accurately matched my fishing habits. (Offshore, chasing Albacore, tuna, Yellow tail, etc.)Although I thought it was a great boat for that type of fishing, it was not so great when taking friends for a Bay tour or over nighting on a mooring in Catalina, which my wife loved to do.I had similar experiences with several successive boats, a total of 8 since 1995, before finally pinning down the exact mission the boat would see and we would be totally happy with.

At age 72, we use the boat for a lot of Bay cruising and Bay fishing, taking friends out for the 25 cent San Diego Harbor tour, fishing just a few hundred yards off shore for Halibut, watching Big Bay activities (4th of July, New years, etc.) and an infrequent cruise to Catalina Island.

That's the God's honest mission of SeaHorse II and she is exactly the boat I need for doing the above.

Do I have anything against the N46? NO!
Would I like one for going to Avalon & back? No
Would it be a great boat to fish from? No
Is it a great boat for taking friends sight seeing? No

It just doesn't fit the actual mission that I experience!

All I was attempting to impart was to share my own experience of buying the wrong boat because I hadn't really been honest with myself as to what it would be used for!
Go ahead and by the N46! My God, It doesn't affect me in the least! If you find it doesn't fit the mission you had in mind, sell it! I, and a few others, were just trying to share some real world experience with you and possibly save you some real money down the road.

Codger2 · Sep 22, 2013

cardude01 said:
This is the second time you have made this comment about making sure we really understand how we plan to use the boat, so I have to ask what it is I have said that is throwing up this red flag for you?

Do I think this is the perfect Bahamas or great loop boat? No. Is it the perfect boat for my current shallow Gulf Coast area? Nope. Does it lack a fly bridge, and would I like to have one? Yes, but I'm willing to make that tradeoff for what I THINK I want to do later with the boat.

Your question is a fair one and deserves an honest response.

I bought my first big boat (48' Offshore Yacht Fisher) in 1995. I had ideas, dreams, etc. of cruising to Mexico and points beyond. I also thought that we would invite numerous friends to share the adventure with. None of it happened.

I then bought a boat (42' Ocean Alex) that had 20 knot cruise speed and a small guest stateroom. It was (and still is!) a great Southern California cruising boat. I fished it in Mexico, cruised all over SoCal and finally sold it in order to buy a 54' Sport fisher. (I would find out later that this (the 42' Ocean Alex) was the boat I should have kept as it fit the actual "mission" that my wife & I enjoyed.)

The decision to buy the sport fisher was based on a burning desire to join the Bill Fish tournaments in Mexico, Catalina. etc. The boat was just what one needed to compete on an equal basis with hard core bill fish anglers. I spent over $500K on this boat and never entered one tournament. I finally sold it and bought a smaller sport fisher (38') that more accurately matched my fishing habits. (Offshore, chasing Albacore, tuna, Yellow tail, etc.)Although I thought it was a great boat for that type of fishing, it was not so great when taking friends for a Bay tour or over nighting on a mooring in Catalina, which my wife loved to do.I had similar experiences with several successive boats, a total of 8 since 1995, before finally pinning down the exact mission the boat would see and we would be totally happy with.

At age 72, we use the boat for a lot of Bay cruising and Bay fishing, taking friends out for the 25 cent San Diego Harbor tour, fishing just a few hundred yards off shore for Halibut, watching Big Bay activities (4th of July, New years, etc.) and an infrequent cruise to Catalina Island.

That's the God's honest mission of SeaHorse II and she is exactly the boat I need for doing the above.

Do I have anything against the N46? NO!
Would I like one for going to Avalon & back? No
Would it be a great boat to fish from? No
Is it a great boat for taking friends sight seeing? No

It just doesn't fit the actual mission that I experience!

All I was attempting to impart was to share my own experience of buying the wrong boat because I hadn't really been honest with myself as to what it would be used for!
Go ahead and by the N46! My God, It doesn't affect me in the least! If you find it doesn't fit the mission you had in mind, sell it! I, and a few others, were just trying to share some real world experience with you and possibly save you some real money down the road.

My perfect boat!

ksanders · Sep 22, 2013

sunchaser said:
Cardude01

Having been on many Nordhavns and seriously made offers on them, not mentioned in the many good responses you have received is cost. Not only will you pay much more to purchase the boat than a similar sized very good heavy sea state boat like a DeFever, but the upkeep/refit cost to keep and bring a 15 to 25 year old Nordhavn to brand and blue water standard should be considered.

Good point!

The Defevers, the Hattaras LRC's, and a few others offer long range passagemaking capability, and can be pruchased at a cost, enough less than the Nordhavn to make or either a very nice refit, or enough cash in pocket to pay for probably a lifetime of fuel.

Two Nordhavns

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