Cummins 210 hp

Virginias Run · Sep 11, 2013

Not too familiar with these engines, and I trying to ascertain what midlife would be under "normal" engine use. Also looking for economics, i.e. fuel consumption at ~80%? (43' Marine Trader (Tradewinds))

Any information on systemic issues would be more than helpful.

Thanks in advance

Jim

jleonard · Sep 11, 2013

Pretty bullet proof engine, dead simple to work on, one of the easiest around. Parts available amost everywhere from NAPA, etc. to Cummins dealers, to Dodge dealers, and heavy truck parts stores. Most mechanics can do the common jobs as these are the same engines found in Dodge trucks, Freightliners, busses, etc.
Fuel consumption will be similar to any like sized diesel engine of the era.

This engine would be my first choice for a trawler.

bshanafelt · Sep 11, 2013

you should be able to find a fuel burn graph from cummins on this motor. As to what actual burn/usage is, this will depend on many variables determined by the boat it is installed in.

As to condition of the motor, this is entirely dependant on the care and feeding, not to mention regular use of the engine.

What year is it? How many hours? What sort of maint. log comes with it?

There are a couple of weak points in the marinizing of this motor. Particularly the raw water pump and the stock exhaust elbow. Find out when these items were replaced/rebuilt.

The good news is that at 210hp there is no aftercooler to fail. But the turbo will need to be checked.

Lots of info on boatdiesel.com

good luck

DavidM · Sep 12, 2013

Jim:

If you run that engine at 80% of wot rpm, it is probably producing something like 120 hp, which is way too much to push your boat to displacement speed.

Assuming that your boat weighs 40,000 lbs it typically takes 2 or so hp per 1,000 lbs to push a boat to displacement speed. So about 80 hp to go 9 kts. 80 hp will require about 5 gph for that engine.

Slow down a couple of knots and the fuel burn will drop in half.

As others have said the Cummins 210 is a rock solid engine and is one of the best choices for your boat.

David

FF · Sep 12, 2013

>40,000 lbs it typically takes 2 or so hp per 1,000 lbs to push a boat to displacement speed.<

However the huge wake at hull speed where the hull is attempting to climb over its bow wave is not how most cruisers travel .

2 hp per ton ,,2240 lbs is more common for LRC where most folks travel.. SL-1

brian eiland · Sep 12, 2013

jleonard said:
Pretty bullet proof engine, dead simple to work on, one of the easiest around. Parts available amost everywhere from NAPA, etc. to Cummins dealers, to Dodge dealers, and heavy truck parts stores. Most mechanics can do the common jobs as these are the same engines found in Dodge trucks, Freightliners, busses, etc.
Fuel consumption will be similar to any like sized diesel engine of the era.

This engine would be my first choice for a trawler.

bshanafelt said:
The good news is that at 210hp there is no aftercooler to fail. But the turbo will need to be checked.

Lots of info on boatdiesel.com

I take it this is a turbo engine. Is there a non-turbo version? ....HP?

Baggiolini · Sep 12, 2013

I have twins, 6bt 5.9 210 turbos. 5.9 GPH at 2000 rpms pushing 20,000 lbs at 9.6 kts. As said above, parts are everywhere and general maintenance skills are available everywhere. For more skilled maintenance Cummins has a huge dealer network. The only downside is that Cummins changes part numbers every 15 minutes so the part number you ordered in January will be something completely different in June.

Midlife appears to have everything to do with the POs maintenance than the pedigree of the pusher.

DavidM · Sep 12, 2013

brian eiland said:
I take it this is a turbo engine. Is there a non-turbo version? ....HP?

I don't think Cummins ever made a marine non turbo version of the 6B.

But don't worry about the turbo. There is no aftercooler to fail on this engine and turbos, if they don't get seawater sucked back into the exhaust, can last the life of the engine- 10,000 hours or more.

David

Rivahrat · Sep 12, 2013

djmarchand said:
I don't think Cummins ever made a marine non turbo version of the 6B.

But don't worry about the turbo. There is no aftercooler to fail on this engine and turbos, if they don't get seawater sucked back into the exhaust, can last the life of the engine- 10,000 hours or more.

David

David, FYI, Our 1990 Marine trader has 2- 6b5.9, 115hp naturally aspirated Cummins
installed, and @ 1700rpm, burn 2gph per engine...
Frank

O C Diver · Sep 12, 2013

djmarchand said:
I don't think Cummins ever made a marine non turbo version of the 6B.

But don't worry about the turbo. There is no aftercooler to fail on this engine and turbos, if they don't get seawater sucked back into the exhaust, can last the life of the engine- 10,000 hours or more.

David

Not exactly. Cummins has offered all 3 versions:

6B = Naturally aspired 135 HP
6BT = Turbo 210 to 220 HP
6BTA = Turbo After Cooled 250 HP and above.

Ted

FF · Sep 13, 2013

For those that want a cheap swop,BEWARE, the block and the fuel system is different on the light truck version , from the factory marine version.

At 2 or 3 GPH it might not matter but for a defuler at 80% power , it could.

brian eiland · Sep 13, 2013

Don't know that I understand your posting FF?

Are you saying they are different engine blocks for these 3 version of the engines depending on whether it is marine or truck application?

At 2 or 3 GPH it might not matter but for a defuler at 80% power , it could.

Don't understand?

jleonard · Sep 13, 2013

Same block design only changed by "era" of engine. Heads might be different, but a new replacement head will now be the same. Fuel systems are different, but some (with the Bosch 7100 series pump) only by calibration.
If you take an older (12 valve) truck block you can bolt on all the marine parts. (For example you remove the power steering pump and bolt the raw water pump in it's place, etc.)
The turbo might last the life of the engine, if not they are cheap to replace and easy to rebuild.

O C Diver · Sep 13, 2013

Pistons are different between the NA and the Turbo. Also, the truck turbo isn't water cooled. Don't think the truck turbo would last very long in an enclosed engine room as there isn't the constant flow of air it sees in a truck application.

Ted

DavidM · Sep 13, 2013

O C Diver said:
Pistons are different between the NA and the Turbo. Also, the truck turbo isn't water cooled. Don't think the truck turbo would last very long in an enclosed engine room as there isn't the constant flow of air it sees in a truck application.

Ted

Yes, Yanmar re-learned that lesson with their first BYs.

David

Bay Pelican · Sep 13, 2013

Isn't there a 150hp limit to naturally aspirated / non-electronic engines being sold new. If so a 200hp Cummins would not be exempt and therefore would be more complicated than the old trawler engines.

Marty

Baker · Sep 13, 2013

Not sure if the 210hp version has fuel coolers on them but if they do, they are a source of problems as well. Some people remove and bypass them. I think my compromise is to replace them every 2 years or so...

O C Diver · Sep 13, 2013

Bay Pelican said:
Isn't there a 150hp limit to naturally aspirated / non-electronic engines being sold new. If so a 200hp Cummins would not be exempt and therefore would be more complicated than the old trawler engines.

Marty

The 200+ B engines are all turbo. The main stipulation on these engines (210-220 HP Turbo) is that they have to be installed in older boats, not new builds.

Baker said:
Not sure if the 210hp version has fuel coolers on them but if they do, they are a source of problems as well. Some people remove and bypass them. I think my compromise is to replace them every 2 years or so...

Not positive, but I believe the fuel coolers were installed with the after Turbo air coolers (250 HP and above).

Ted

brian eiland · Sep 14, 2013

O C Diver said:
Pistons are different between the NA and the Turbo.

Is this true of most manufactures who use a basic engine design as both turbo and non-turbo?

I can imagine not needing a more domed piston in the turbo version as you would not need the extra compression.

But this would mean you could not convert a non-turbo version to a turbo engine by simply added on a turbo kit, ...is that correct?

Also, the truck turbo isn't water cooled. Don't think the truck turbo would last very long in an enclosed engine room as there isn't the constant flow of air it sees in a truck application.

Is the turbo itself actual water cooled,.... in any case?

Baggiolini · Sep 14, 2013

No fuel coolers & yes, 6BT 210 turbo is water cooled. At least on my boat.

brian eiland · Sep 14, 2013

Sorry for that stupid question about turbo cooling. I guess I'm just old school and knew of the oil cooling on big CAT engines (had one blow one time), but wasn't up on the latest engine techs. I googled water cooled turbos and saw lots on entries.

O C Diver · Sep 14, 2013

brian eiland said:
Is this true of most manufactures who use a basic engine design as both turbo and non-turbo?

No Idea what other manufacturers do. This is just what my Cummins mechanic, who has rebuilt / repaired hundreds of B engines told me.

brian eiland said:
But this would mean you could not convert a non-turbo version to a turbo engine by simply added on a turbo kit, ...is that correct?

Correct. There might be differences in the heads (valves) and elsewhere.

brian eiland said:
Is the turbo itself actual water cooled,.... in any case?

Yes the fresh water cooling system continuously flows from the block, through the water jacketed turbo, then into the exhaust manifold (not exhaust elbow which is raw water cooled) and then into the fresh water pump which is part of the block.

Ted

Edelweiss · Sep 14, 2013

brian eiland said:
Is this true of most manufactures who use a basic engine design as both turbo and non-turbo?
I can imagine not needing a more domed piston in the turbo version as you would not need the extra compression.
But this would mean you could not convert a non-turbo version to a turbo engine by simply added on a turbo kit, ...is that correct? QUOTE]
----------------------------------
Perkins 6-354's were the same way. The n/a engines had different heads, pistons, and crank. They even reversed exhaust manifold bolt pattern on the heads so you couldn't bolt a turbo manifold to an N/A head. Cranks were same design, but turbo cranks went through an extended metal hardening process to strengthen them further.

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