RT Firefly
Enigma
Greetings,
Mr. psneeld. Disagree!
Mr. psneeld. Disagree!
Bayliner 4588
- Thread starter Shantyhag
- Start date
The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
psneeld
Guru
That's OK...I've just learned through the years about people that use certain catch phrases....
Even then 2 different people can use the same one and it makes a huge difference..depending on their personality...
Coupled with the whining post....and the catch phrase....I have a sneaking suspicion....
But truly amazingly enough...I have been incorrect before....
CPseudonym
Moderator Emeritus
Wow. Just wow. His post was was not and will not be edited. All I did was check the box that said "approve post" and deleted his duplicate post as per his request via PM.
Via that very brief PM sent from my phone I offered him a couple lines explaining the software and a pat reply about advertising IF interested(a very common follow up question in my experience). Apparently that must have led to this misunderstanding.
I accept full responsibility for the poor communication that led to this misunderstanding and publicly apologize as it obviously offended you. That was not the intent.
Via that very brief PM sent from my phone I offered him a couple lines explaining the software and a pat reply about advertising IF interested(a very common follow up question in my experience). Apparently that must have led to this misunderstanding.
I accept full responsibility for the poor communication that led to this misunderstanding and publicly apologize as it obviously offended you. That was not the intent.
ksanders
Moderator Emeritus
Guys, I've known Pilothouse king for many years over on the Bayliner Owners Club. Over a decade.
He is a character like we all are. He also absolutely knows his boat market, and knows boats from a what sells, what boat models have problems at survey, etc...
His posts don't always make owners happy, especially if they have an unrealistic value on their boat, but I've found them to be informative and accurate.
I'm glad he found TF finally.
He is a character like we all are. He also absolutely knows his boat market, and knows boats from a what sells, what boat models have problems at survey, etc...
His posts don't always make owners happy, especially if they have an unrealistic value on their boat, but I've found them to be informative and accurate.
I'm glad he found TF finally.
Edelweiss
Guru
If you're a boating industry salesperson, it's a fine line between participating as a forum member and advertising your wares.
I respect the forums guidelines and who knows, maybe he wasn't interested in participating solely as a forum member. I would have enjoyed seeing the information he amassed concerning Meridian and Bayliner boats.
They were a local Washington manufacture for many years.
PS: If you want to view the old ads and information he was talking about, he placed the link at the bottom of his personal information page. Double click on his name in his last post to see it. Maybe that was the confusion on his part??
I respect the forums guidelines and who knows, maybe he wasn't interested in participating solely as a forum member. I would have enjoyed seeing the information he amassed concerning Meridian and Bayliner boats.
They were a local Washington manufacture for many years.
PS: If you want to view the old ads and information he was talking about, he placed the link at the bottom of his personal information page. Double click on his name in his last post to see it. Maybe that was the confusion on his part??
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knuckelbuster
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2012
- Messages
- 36
- Location
- United States
- Vessel Name
- Out-A-Sight
- Vessel Make
- 1993 Bayliner 4588
Kevin great video of your boat. We have seen bits and pieces of your boat during the rebuild but have not seen the finished project. Excellent job! Your project has inspired me to add some more goodies to my boat.
ksanders
Moderator Emeritus
Thanks very much! Its been a process.
The next project is stabilizers. I've bounced the idea around several times, but never moved beyond the planning stage. The problem is getting decent fiberglass work done in Seward Alaska.
What I've learned is that stabilizers arent about seaworthiness, they are about comfort. My boat is plenty seaworthy. The challenge is that in my cruising area I face an almost constant beam sea.
Kevin, not sure what if anything happened behind the scenes there, but I would love to check out his sites. He had this link posted on his profile:
http://meridianpilothouse.com/meridian-bayliner-pilothouse-motoryacht-history/
But if the links to the other sites are available at the bayliner forum you mentioned I would love to see them... any chance you could post them?
Thanks,
Shanty
[EDIT: I edited the above link to direct to the history portion of his site rather than the front/sales page]
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ksanders
Moderator Emeritus
The only site he has that I know of is www.baylinerpilothouse.com
Even though he specializes in selling bayliner pilothouse boats, there is a ton of information on these boats that lodes not exist anywhere else.
Just an FYI if others read this, and think that I'm in cahoots with pilothouse king. I am not. I am not in the boat business, in any shape or form. I work in the electrical and industrial telecommunications industries, not the boat industry.
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psneeld
Guru
I know you are lying...never met an Alaskan with only one job...
Unless you work for the government...and even then your second job is recreational salmon/halibut fishing to keep the freezer full...
ksanders
Moderator Emeritus
I know you are lying...never met an Alaskan with only one job...
Unless you work for the government...and even then your second job is recreational salmon/halibut fishing to keep the freezer full...
That's too funny!!! But so true!
I actually have two jobs.
I work as a telecommunications technician on Alaska's North Slope. There I specialize in digital microwave, and networking
And I also run a company that specializes in sales of industrial electrical switching, power measurement, and generator electrical parts.
psneeld
Guru
Told ya so!!!!!
It's the spirit that makes Alaska magical...I miss it a lot and I only have 2 years residency and another 6 months in 2winter Arctic trips...but have seen it from past Attu to north of Nome in winter and the whole Aleutians from Attu and coastal all the way to the coastal Canadian border....man what a PLACE!!!!!
I've missed several million square miles of the interior and I still think it can't be beat for a lot of things....
Hello, new member here. I have been looking at the 4588 and 4755 and saw this discussion. I know it is an old discussion but, wanted to see if anyone was still out there to answer a couple of questions. Going from a sailboat to a trawler I have been eying these Bayliners but, the twin big engines had me concerned . I really wasn't interested in a planning hull, more of a displacement hull as that is what I am use to. I am also use to the fuel economy of an engine that could barely push a sailboat hull. But, somewhere in this discussion a comment was made that you could run these engines in the bayliner at lower rpm's and, occasionally higher, and I am assuming that is not a problem for the engines. I was always under the impression that diesels need to work under a good load to be productive. Once you start using them less than their capacity they start to deteriorate. Is this true?
ksanders
Moderator Emeritus
The Bayliner 4588 and the 4788 with both the HINO and the Cummins engines has a long history of operation at displacement speeds without any issues related to underloading.
Best of luck with your boat search!
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2008
- Messages
- 13,731
- Location
- California Delta
- Vessel Name
- FlyWright
- Vessel Make
- 1977 Marshall Californian 34 LRC
Pure Apocrypha.
It is true diesels like to run but it is not true that diesels deteriorate under part load.
I would tend to agree with this for non-turbo diesel engines. Their turbo brethren need to get the turbo up and running with higher power.
pilothouse king
Guru
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2013
- Messages
- 525
- Location
- USA
- Vessel Make
- 15' Hobie Power Skiff w/90hp Yamaha-owned 28 years. Also a 2001 Bayliner 3788 that I took in trade
Both the 45s and 47s have turbos.
So are you saying that the 45s and the 47s do not have engines that can be run at slower speeds?
ksanders
Moderator Emeritus
CWC
I cannot guess at Blakes response to that question.
What I can say, having been in communication constantly with a huge population of Bayliner 45 and 47 owners, over a very long period of time, is that none of them have reported any premature engine issues by running their boats at hull speed.
None.
Nada
Zero.
Nyet
Same here - run at "hull speed" (~8 kts) for very long trips. Between 1400 and 1600 RPM depending on my mood. (1600 is faster than hull speed.) No problems for many years now. A bit less than 2 nautical miles per gallon. Could go slower and get even better.
Occasionally run up to 3000 rpm to make sure all is ok with cooling and fuel delivery. Probably also "blows out" the turbo and exhaust but I don't think my operational profile causes a problem in that area.
Occasionally run up to 3000 rpm to make sure all is ok with cooling and fuel delivery. Probably also "blows out" the turbo and exhaust but I don't think my operational profile causes a problem in that area.
Nomad Willy
Guru
CWC,
Perhaps the best advice on how to use a given engine is to contact the manufacturer and find out what the people and most importantly engineers that design, build and market the engine have to say. If anybody should be able to specify how to run an engine it should be them and if you do ask them I'd like to hear what they say.
Perhaps the best advice on how to use a given engine is to contact the manufacturer and find out what the people and most importantly engineers that design, build and market the engine have to say. If anybody should be able to specify how to run an engine it should be them and if you do ask them I'd like to hear what they say.
pilothouse king
Guru
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2013
- Messages
- 525
- Location
- USA
- Vessel Make
- 15' Hobie Power Skiff w/90hp Yamaha-owned 28 years. Also a 2001 Bayliner 3788 that I took in trade
What Kevin said. I was just pointing out (in response to a poster) that all the Bayliner 45's and 47's engines have turbos if powered with diesel engines, so as not to have them waste their time looking for these boats with naturals.
Yes, there were a handful built with gas engines. Rare rare rare, but exist.
The reason I specialize in these boats is that I don't like to waste my time ( having money is better than not having any) that it's been my experience for the past 20 years I've been specializing in the big Bayliners is that they always fly through survey no matter how they were used or abused, which equals a commission check being cashed. There's nothing worse as a broker than spending time (years back before the internet!) and money (print ads were/are expensive!) on a listing to finally find a buyer- and it all being flushed down the toilet after survey.
Prior to me focusing on this marque I would take so called quality boats (Hatteras and Grand Banks come to mind!) through surveys, and the deals wouldn't go through as it would be regular to be handed a survey with $200k of needed repairs on $300k boats!
Then I started looking at the cars of the Yacht Brokers who specialized in those "quality" boats, those same brokers who regularly bashed Bayliners and realized all were driving old beaters (one from Merrit Yachts had a back seat full of McDonald wrappers!!), but the Bayliner salesmen over at the dealership (the owner I quickly became friends with) all were driving new Jaguars and Vettes. It was a "light bulb" life changing revelation, as I've always had Benz habits to support.
One of my longest best friends became a broker (after watching my success) for Ardell in Ft. Lauderdale, after working with Fraser in Newport Beach California. He closed one (1) big yacht in three (3) years-he made $150k on that deal, but once he paid taxes and deal after deal after deal collapsed after surveys, year after year-he exited the profession broke. In hind sight he should had stayed with "Chevy" as there's way more Chevy buyers than Ferrari buyers. I should say Ford as that's where he ended up selling cars- up in New Hampshire where nobody knew who he was.
TIME has proven that real yacht quality wasn't related to the price new, but in how they actually were built, and when it came to these boats, the price was low, which many confused people confused with quality- Maybe too low in buyers perceptions, which is why Brunswick changed their name to Meridian and jacked the prices up. Then those consumers finally had a expensive product they could be happy with, although it was basically the same boat-just a different name.
Time has been good to these boats and have proven them well built. They still fly through surveys (most of my foreign buyers don't even survey them), and unless the engines have ingested copious amounts of water, the engines do too. But here's the good thing about the engines on these boats, you can easily (floor boards in the salon come up-and out the door or windows they go) exchange them out for new ones with full warranties for $50k "soup to nuts" pretty easy. That's two engines. For those who mess with expensive cars, plane, and helicopter engines-that's cheap. That's less than many YACHT buyers pay for their dress watches (had a Chinese Meridian 580 buyer show me his $200k watch) or the giant diamond ring on their trophy wife's finger!
There's some heavy hitters that cruise around in these boats under the radar screen as it were. I started getting a clue when picking them up at the airport as they flew in on their own twin engine planes and jets. These people didn't get to be rich by being stupid!
You don't hear many Bayliner bashers anymore. All those stupid brokers -went broke! lol
Give me Bayliner and Meridian listings any day!! Ka-ching.
Yes, there were a handful built with gas engines. Rare rare rare, but exist.
The reason I specialize in these boats is that I don't like to waste my time ( having money is better than not having any) that it's been my experience for the past 20 years I've been specializing in the big Bayliners is that they always fly through survey no matter how they were used or abused, which equals a commission check being cashed. There's nothing worse as a broker than spending time (years back before the internet!) and money (print ads were/are expensive!) on a listing to finally find a buyer- and it all being flushed down the toilet after survey.
Prior to me focusing on this marque I would take so called quality boats (Hatteras and Grand Banks come to mind!) through surveys, and the deals wouldn't go through as it would be regular to be handed a survey with $200k of needed repairs on $300k boats!
Then I started looking at the cars of the Yacht Brokers who specialized in those "quality" boats, those same brokers who regularly bashed Bayliners and realized all were driving old beaters (one from Merrit Yachts had a back seat full of McDonald wrappers!!), but the Bayliner salesmen over at the dealership (the owner I quickly became friends with) all were driving new Jaguars and Vettes. It was a "light bulb" life changing revelation, as I've always had Benz habits to support.
One of my longest best friends became a broker (after watching my success) for Ardell in Ft. Lauderdale, after working with Fraser in Newport Beach California. He closed one (1) big yacht in three (3) years-he made $150k on that deal, but once he paid taxes and deal after deal after deal collapsed after surveys, year after year-he exited the profession broke. In hind sight he should had stayed with "Chevy" as there's way more Chevy buyers than Ferrari buyers. I should say Ford as that's where he ended up selling cars- up in New Hampshire where nobody knew who he was.
TIME has proven that real yacht quality wasn't related to the price new, but in how they actually were built, and when it came to these boats, the price was low, which many confused people confused with quality- Maybe too low in buyers perceptions, which is why Brunswick changed their name to Meridian and jacked the prices up. Then those consumers finally had a expensive product they could be happy with, although it was basically the same boat-just a different name.
Time has been good to these boats and have proven them well built. They still fly through surveys (most of my foreign buyers don't even survey them), and unless the engines have ingested copious amounts of water, the engines do too. But here's the good thing about the engines on these boats, you can easily (floor boards in the salon come up-and out the door or windows they go) exchange them out for new ones with full warranties for $50k "soup to nuts" pretty easy. That's two engines. For those who mess with expensive cars, plane, and helicopter engines-that's cheap. That's less than many YACHT buyers pay for their dress watches (had a Chinese Meridian 580 buyer show me his $200k watch) or the giant diamond ring on their trophy wife's finger!
There's some heavy hitters that cruise around in these boats under the radar screen as it were. I started getting a clue when picking them up at the airport as they flew in on their own twin engine planes and jets. These people didn't get to be rich by being stupid!
You don't hear many Bayliner bashers anymore. All those stupid brokers -went broke! lol
Give me Bayliner and Meridian listings any day!! Ka-ching.
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Nomad Willy
Guru
That was interesting PK and I saw lots of them in Alaska. In Pt Baker w socialized w a couple w a BL 45 and went w them to our next anchorage. They left late, passed us (w a big wake even at 9knots) and we rated to them in anchorage. Their boat was very rommy w a do die for wheelhouse. Really really wonderful wheelhouse. And their looks are top of the fleet I'd say. Nothing worth mentioning about the hull (above the WL) but having a house that is so beautiful in combination w that WH is an outstanding combination. I like the very soft Chines below the WL also. I can see why you like to sell them even wo the easy surveys. I could readily relate to a 32' version w a little rocker to the bottom.
Rustybarge
Guru
Thanks for your insights PK.....
Over here the smaller models are know as 'Bin Liners'.
Translation: garbage sacks.
Never knew that they were well made reliable boats.
Over here the smaller models are know as 'Bin Liners'.
Translation: garbage sacks.
Never knew that they were well made reliable boats.
Robster_in_edmonds
Senior Member
So nice to see this thread resurrected! We have now had our 4788 for two years and absolutely love it. We have yet to see another fifty-foot boat that we would trade ours for. Our first boat here in the PNW was a Bayliner 2855 - three years with it and we knew we loved boating up here and we also knew we wanted a bigger boat. Sold the 2855 for a grand less than we paid for it and started looking for a bigger boat.
The Admiral took a tour of a friend's 4788 and ten minutes later told me she wouldn't let us buy anything else. We ended up finding a distress-sale 4788 in a hard-to-reach moorage with a lazy broker who lived two hours away and didn't want to show it because of the trip he had to make. Our low-ball offer was accepted and she was ours.
We had to make lots of (minor) repairs, and half of them were to address deferred maintenance and the other half were to repair screw-ups made during equipment installations by well-paid yards. No issues whatsopever with the factory build quality.
When I had my 2855 a friend who owns a Carver and is in the marine industry informed me that Bayliners were "disposable" boats. After ten years they were used up and should be thrown away. After we got our 4788 he and his wife came aboard for cocktails and after a thorough tour he quietly apologized to me.
I find the 4788 very easy to maneuver around the dock, and we do not have thrusters. No issues (knock on wood) with the Cummins engines. Have fun shopping!
The Admiral took a tour of a friend's 4788 and ten minutes later told me she wouldn't let us buy anything else. We ended up finding a distress-sale 4788 in a hard-to-reach moorage with a lazy broker who lived two hours away and didn't want to show it because of the trip he had to make. Our low-ball offer was accepted and she was ours.
We had to make lots of (minor) repairs, and half of them were to address deferred maintenance and the other half were to repair screw-ups made during equipment installations by well-paid yards. No issues whatsopever with the factory build quality.
When I had my 2855 a friend who owns a Carver and is in the marine industry informed me that Bayliners were "disposable" boats. After ten years they were used up and should be thrown away. After we got our 4788 he and his wife came aboard for cocktails and after a thorough tour he quietly apologized to me.
I find the 4788 very easy to maneuver around the dock, and we do not have thrusters. No issues (knock on wood) with the Cummins engines. Have fun shopping!
ksanders
Moderator Emeritus
We've had our 4788 Bayliner since 2011.
What I've found is that it is a reliable, seaworthy, second home.
We boat in the open ocean, and I remember being concerned about that prior to purchasing the boat. I even remember a PM I sent to a friend of mine, another TF member worrying that if we bought this model we would become dock queens.
Nothing could be further from the truth!
Folks that cruise in the open ocean know that real 6 footers are more common place than not. Four footers are a flat sea. We have found that the 4788 handles these seas perfectly. If they are abeam, the application of a little power makes the rear of the boat squat a bit, and smooths out the rolling.
Having spent so much time in the Gulf of Alaska has given me experience and confidence in this model. I would have no problem taking our boat along any coastline, anywhere. With 600 miles of range there is literally nowhere in North or Central America we could not go in a 4788.
What I've found is that it is a reliable, seaworthy, second home.
We boat in the open ocean, and I remember being concerned about that prior to purchasing the boat. I even remember a PM I sent to a friend of mine, another TF member worrying that if we bought this model we would become dock queens.
Nothing could be further from the truth!
Folks that cruise in the open ocean know that real 6 footers are more common place than not. Four footers are a flat sea. We have found that the 4788 handles these seas perfectly. If they are abeam, the application of a little power makes the rear of the boat squat a bit, and smooths out the rolling.
Having spent so much time in the Gulf of Alaska has given me experience and confidence in this model. I would have no problem taking our boat along any coastline, anywhere. With 600 miles of range there is literally nowhere in North or Central America we could not go in a 4788.
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PK-the fact of the matter is that Orin Edson believed that (1) building a not quite so fancy, but very well-built, boat and then (2) selling it at a good price was a pretty good recipe for success. Which explains why the backup at the Locks in Seattle on a summer weekend is about 60% Bayliners!
Too many builders forget either (1), (2) or both!
Too many builders forget either (1), (2) or both!
Scary
Guru
Having owned a 4788 and currently a Hatteras 48LRC I can honestly say that very few if any boats do better at as as many things the 4788 does. It's low center of gravity make it a very safe boat, It's flat hull shape make it very stable at anchor. I'ts light weight make it easily driven and quick for it's rated power. It's long enough to ride well in chop. and low enough to handy at the dock. There is a reason you see so many 4788's and it has nothing to do with price. They have a great layout and the access from the pilot house to the upper helm is quick and easy. You can entertain 20 adults and have seating for all. The boat is easy to single hand tracks well in most conditions. This boat does what most people really do with a boat better than any other I've been on. This is the one single boat most other brands should have build and wished they had.
ksanders
Moderator Emeritus
Well Steve
Nothing like an endorsement from someone that used to own one.
BTW I am still smitten with your Hatteras!
even after all these years!
FF
Guru
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2007
- Messages
- 22,552
Turbos live long and prosper IF they are operating with some minimum boost.
No boost and its just a plug in the exhaust.
INDUSTRIAL engines , rated to operate 24/7 at a good load suffer from under
loading.
Car , light truck and farm implement engines have Auto style ratings , maybe 5 min at max hp , so are weaker than advertised numbers suggest..
Thats GOOD ! for most cruisers.
Rule of thumb,,, , 3 cubic inches for 1 hp at cruise , and it will run a long time.
No boost and its just a plug in the exhaust.
INDUSTRIAL engines , rated to operate 24/7 at a good load suffer from under
loading.
Car , light truck and farm implement engines have Auto style ratings , maybe 5 min at max hp , so are weaker than advertised numbers suggest..
Thats GOOD ! for most cruisers.
Rule of thumb,,, , 3 cubic inches for 1 hp at cruise , and it will run a long time.
