Fuel Contamination (and Racor Filter Help)

FlyWright said:

In addition to having the fuel polished, I am having 8 inch access plates installed and the tanks will be scrubbed. The replacement caps arrived today.

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Al - OHHHH... So Pretty!! You're doing a bang up good job! Best luck for many years forward that he angle of "clean fuel flow" flaps her wings and wiggles her tail - - > in your favor!

Thanks, Art!

Capthead said:

Catalina has double moorings with a single ball. There is a wand you pick up that has a line attached to the bow mooring line. You pull that onto your bow cleat and there is a second line called the sand line. It goes to the rear mooring line. You walk that line down the side of your boat to the stern where you can pull up the stern line and cleat it off. It's very easy as long as you have the boat lined up with both mooring blocks below the boat.

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Those moorings are easy as long as the wind is down the line more or less, if the wind is not in your favor it is a good thing the harbor patrol is so helpful
BTW, i just got back today from 7 days at The Isthmus and 2 days in Avalon.

FF said:

Only other reason for gunk in fuel that I know of is if pump station has gunk in its main tank and therein transfers its gunk into your tanks... been there, done that

Actually fuel is a high volume commodity and some water is expected to be in the fuel.

Any water from any source will feed the bugs that live in the water and eat the diesel.

The only solution to the problem is a built in sump to collect the water at the low point and a program to remove it .

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question:
I heard some fuel docks add additives and some dont?
If they dont add any additives, should we consider to use an additive?
We live in a relatively mild climate and the fuel is typically used within a few months of fueling.

Oil additives are very Iffy , but fuel is a great use for specific products that may solve a specific problem.

Most fuel is burned fairly rapidly , in some boats it sits for years.

So some type of biocide might be in order.

Although the first line defence is a Baja Filter to keep water and dirt out of the tank.

On Bay Pelican we have gone against conventional wisdom and draw our fuel directly from the bottom of the tank with side outlets just above the tank bottom. We however use a fuel polishing system extensively on any tank before we use the tank, running the polishing system long enough to polish the tank 4 to 6 times.

So far no problems, although we do collect water in the fuel polisher.

Marty

I recently re-piped my fuel systems. I designed the system myself. Starboard tank to starboard engine, port to port. My generator is combined with the port engine. I have three way valves that let me pull from the drain or from a top entry dip tube. I have racors and pull fuel through them and another three way valve that selects engine or polishing pump. I also have a valved transfer line. All this get me the ability to polish from the tank bottom and motor from the dip tube. Each polishing pump is on a 12 hour timer. After polishing I switch to dip tube. If I need to I can use the polish pumps to transfer from side to side. I have pressure gauges on the racors and change them after polishing or whenever. The polish pumps resolve all my priming concerns. I have had this arrangement for more than a year and a couple of long cruises and couldn't be happier.

That sounds like a great set-up, obthomas. It's something I'll need to consider in the future. Adding a few valves and lines might be all I need to make it happen. I like the idea of having the pumps on a timer switch.

However one handles cleaning the fuel , be sure to create a PDL, pass down log, so the next owener can understand the installation.

Drawings are better.

All of this talk about cleaning fuel, filter and pumps got me thinking( always a scarey idea). I consiidered myself lucky in that instead of having multiple tanks to divert fuel from and to, I only have two tanks. Each 700 gallons which for the most part sit above my engines, so pump is not much of a problem. It does raise the weight higher in the boat then I'd like, but that is anther issue. The motors are DD 6v92T, which I am still learning about but love so far. Now three years into the engine room. I guess I've alway been under the impression that because these motors push so much fuel through the filters and engine just to cool the engine while moving the boat, that I am effectively polishing my fuel every time I run the boat.

Not sure how much fuel I pump, but again, I'm guess that running the hours for 10-20 hours, I've cleaned most of it through my racor 900's I typically only carry between 500 and 900 gallons.

Does that logic track ?

Is there any problem with access panels placed in the side of the diesel tanks? I have no room on the top surface of the tanks and need to ensure there's no problem placing the panels on the diesel tank side. The installer said it's no problem...just want to bounce it by you guys and gals.

Al

Do you have room for an additional filter and pump to create a fuel polishing system. With such you could have the return go back to the original tank or to another tank in which case you would have a fuel transfer system.

I do this routinely, as I fill at least one tank with existing fuel before I take on a load of new fuel in the other three tanks. Then after taking on the new fuel I polish the fuel in each tank for at least four runs through the filter.

Marty

FlyWright said:

Is there any problem with access panels placed in the side of the diesel tanks? I have no room on the top surface of the tanks and need to ensure there's no problem placing the panels on the diesel tank side. The installer said it's no problem...just want to bounce it by you guys and gals.

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I have an access panel about 2/3 the way up on each of my tanks and no problems so far.

Bay Pelican said:

Al

Do you have room for an additional filter and pump to create a fuel polishing system. With such you could have the return go back to the original tank or to another tank in which case you would have a fuel transfer system.
Marty

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I do, Marty. The pumps is already there on each side. And it would be a relatively easy mod to replace the current fuel panel backboard with a larger one to make room for additional valves.



Thanks for that, gwkiwi. I know access holes/plates are forbidden on gasoline (petrol for our non-Yanks) tanks, just making sure it's OK on the diesel tanks before the first cut on Tuesday! (Can you tell I'm getting nervous about them cutting into my tanks? )

FlyWright said:

Is there any problem with access panels placed in the side of the diesel tanks? .

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Works for me and I think that's where they ought to go.

Access panels and outlets on the sides of diesel tanks. I believe this is generally OK. I have had surveys done in several countries by some pretty tough (too tough in one case) surveyors and the access panels on the sides of the diesel tanks were never mentioned. On this forum, however, there are a number of countries represented and there may be different rules outside the United States.

Marty

Thanks for the reassurances, guys. My original surveyor returned my call today and left a message that it's accepted practice if done right with plenty of fasteners to prevent leakage. He also said that, when done right, it's a modification that he considers an improvement for future system health and maintenance. I'm sold!

I would only cut into the tank as a last resort if you can't polish it the fuel clean.

Yes, that's the problem, funangler. Without the access plates, there is insufficient access to scrub the tanks. I'm planning to go ahead with the mod on Tuesday. I'll take pics and document the job.

Got to the boat today with Giggatoni and markpierce to test out the new fuel caps. They are about 1/4 inch too small. The thread OD on the old cap is 1 7/8 inch. The new cap is 1 5/8 inch! Also we found that although my SS waste and water caps are the same OD, they have different threads. I field repaired the broken cap with JB Weld Putty to make due until new caps are found. So I'll return these and look locally for a good replacement.







After taking care of a few incidentals and a quality control beer sampling, we took a cruise down Mare Island Straight to take in the sights, smells and sounds of the new neighborhood. Along the way we found a couple of dolphins, the Golden Bear sporting her new paint job and near-perfect conditions for a boat ride.

After 6 pages I have lost track of the problem(s) and solution(s). So forgive me for any lack of coherence, but:

1. Why not install proper water tight robust deck fills and new hoses?
2. Totally empty your tanks and flush with 20 gallons or so of new fuel
3. Throw out the Racors
4. Install a Fleetguard type 3 stage spin on filter system
5. Go fishing and live happily thereafter

And for a bit more incoherence, we also saw the USCG showing off their weaponry, including belt-fed machine gun, and clip-fed shotgun, rifle, and pistols.

Mark, I discovered that their machine gun is a M240B, 7.62mm NATO caliber. Our army and marines use it as well. Personal sidearms are Sig .40S&W. The shotguns are Remington 870, modified, and,of course, the M14s. A lot of fire power in that little boat!

Giggitoni said:

Mark, I discovered that their machine gun is a M240B, 7.62mm NATO caliber. Our army and marines use it as well. Personal sidearms are Sig .40S&W. The shotguns are Remington 870, modified, and,of course, the M14s. A lot of fire power in that little boat!

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Not enough when some whack job can get their hands on rocket propelled grenade launcher at some local farmers market in 2/3s of the world....good enough to take out 2 Blackhawks in Mogadishu and an CH47 in Afghanistan killing a boatload of spec-ops people.

sunchaser:

After 6 pages I have lost track of the problem(s) and solution(s). So forgive me for any lack of coherence, but:

1. Why not install proper water tight robust deck fills and new hoses?

My deck fills are in good shape and the hoses are relatively new...7 years. No need for their replacement unless I cannot find a proper replacement cap.

2. Totally empty your tanks and flush with 20 gallons or so of new fuel

The fuel polishing and tank scrubbing scheduled for tomorrow will address this more thoroughly than sloshing 20 gallons of fuel in a 125 gallon tank.

3. Throw out the Racors
4. Install a Fleetguard type 3 stage spin on filter system

I don't see the need to throw out the baby with the bathwater. What I need to throw out is the failed fuel cap. The Racors did their job. Why discard them?

5. Go fishing and live happily thereafter

That's the ultimate goal!!

Has anyone installed a commercially available fuel polishing system or designed and installed their own. I know it's not too difficult with a pump and filter and additional plumbing. Having a timer that regularly circulates fuel would be the advantage of purchased systems

That's the ultimate goal!! [/COLOR]

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Wow. Six pages to discuss a failed plastic deck fill. And now we can hear again about fuel polishing systems. The advertisers are having a field day so far be it from me to attempt to close the money tree down.

On a more serious note, sloshing some clean fuel around an empty tank is pretty much what what drive in fuel polishers do, in addition to carting the water logged solids and gel HC leftovers away. It will be interesting to hear how they do it, maybe Mark could get a picture or 20 of their work. I've cleaned out big and small fuel tanks and always found the most expensive and troublesome part to be waste disposal.

This has been a good thread, and may hit the post number record as more Q and A surfaces.

Let`s be brave and ignore the machine gun for a moment.
My recall is these deck fillers, as distinct from the caps, are bronze. That explains fillers outlasting caps, and a design flaw, mixing plastic and bronze. You can buy metal fillers, and plastic ones, but a hybrid is not good. Of course it is possible, but improbable, plastic caps replaced bronze at some point.

Yes, Bruce, they were combo brass and plastic like this.



I found a replacement cap today from the local marine supply that fits.



A second is on order as a replacement for the other side. These new caps make my deck fills look like crap! Now I'll need to break out the chrome paint left over from my lower helm leather wrap project to improve the look.

The fuel polisher showed up today for the job. Duke and Charlotte are the husband/wife team of Cruising Seas Services. They are great folks who are professional, thorough and a pleasure to spend the day with.



They set up their filtration cart on the dock ...



and loaded two 55 gallon drums in the cockpit to handle the fuel. Duke explained to me that they'd pump all but the last 10 gallons or so from the tank before cutting the holes. The reason for this is that the crud at the bottom of the tank can release hydrogen which causes an ignition/explosion hazard. If the bottom stays covered with diesel fuel, this problem prevented. The 6 inch access hole and 8 screw holes were cut uneventfully.







After the holes were cut, the tank was emptied completely.

The port tank came through with flying colors. The fuel looked great and the tank did not show signs of contamination or bacteria presence.

I have been hunting for the source of a persistent, but intermittent, fuel leak that sometimes would leave a few drops in a pan and other times a few ounces. For months I have been searching unsuccessfully for the source. Duke found a fitting at the tank outlet that was very slightly loose.

With the tank empty, he was able to remove the fitting. It showed signs of being installed with thread sealant which he removed. The fitting was reassembled properly with tape and the area cleaned thoroughly. I'll monitor it closely for further leakage. I'm hopeful that this was the source.

After the access plate was installed, the fuel was returned to the tank and the tank checked for leaks.



By this time, it was approaching 3PM, so Duke decided there was not enough time to comfortably finish today. We arranged to reconvene tomorrow morning to complete the stbd side. I appreciate the fact that he would rather work a 2nd day than rush to complete the job today. I want this done thoroughly and correctly the first time and I'm convinced watching their team work that it will be done right.

As it turns out, the Admiral is home entertaining a former neighbor lady who returned to town for the week and is staying at our house. They have LOTS to talk about apparently b/c they had not stopped talking when I left last night and reports are that they stayed up until midnight catching up. Damn! Another night on the boat!!

I'll report back tomorrow with the epilogue.