Shaft Seal Failure

Edelweiss said:

There is also the other possibility. . . . total lack of mechanical skills!! Shocking how someone who owns and personally runs a boat can have no mechanical skills ...

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All it takes is a checkbook ... surely you are not really surprised, you aren't exactly new here.

The only thing that continues to surprise me is the venom with which many of the checkbook captains will defend their shocking lack.

HopCar said:

A couple of months ago I was on a sport fish boat that was hooked to a large fish and backing down. Eventually enough water came in and worked its way below that the freeing ports were under water. When I looked in the engine room, I saw two big 2 inch sea strainers feeding water to the engines. It sure would have been nice if we could have used those to pump the bilge. There was no shortage of crew on board and the freeing ports were stuffed with towels and then the bilge pumps and bucket men started to make very slow progress. The Coasties showed up and put a 3" gas powered trash pump aboard and that made short work of removing the water. I'm in favor of anything you can do to increase your pumping capacity.

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A friend of mine has a 2006 Luhrs 41 sport fish. Right there, next to the strainers, is a valve on each side that allows you to select the intake water to the bilge as an emergency pump. I thought it was pretty damn clever. BUT, even though they were 635hp engines, I still can't imagine them having the ability to pump a lot of water...

My Mainship, a then Luhrs product, had three regular pumps as well as a high water alarm and an "oh ****" 4000gpm emergency pump. Obviously, the Luhrs folks take it seriously.

Baker said:

Right there, next to the strainers, is a valve on each side that allows you to select the intake water to the bilge as an emergency pump. .

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I had a similar set up on my twin DD8V92s. (760hp each)I don't know how much they were capable of pumping but I was told by the Detroit Diesel shop that they could pump a hell of a lot more that my bilge pumps could deliver.

It was so simple....close the RW sea cock & open the valve to the hose that laid on the ER FLOOR.

Turn Your Engine into a High-Capacity Pump | Cruising Compass

Baker said:

BUT, even though they were 635hp engines, I still can't imagine them having the ability to pump a lot of water..

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I would be surprised if the seawater pump was rated very much above 125 GPM.

RickB said:

All it takes is a checkbook ... surely you are not really surprised, you aren't exactly new here.

The only thing that continues to surprise me is the venom with which many of the checkbook captains will defend their shocking lack.

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"Surprised". . . . . . . After years of protecting stupid people from themselves; No. . . .not hardly.

Maybe better than "shocked", would be "annoyed." Your checkbook observation was correct. He eventually called Roche Harbor Marina and they hired one of the inter island water taxis to come out the 16 -18 miles to transport them. I wonder what that cost him?
LB

Maybe this captain was just not interested in risking his life to save his boat.

I can see myself doing the same. If there was another vessel that can rescue us, I would take that option, but if there wasn't, I would try my very best to keep my boat afloat to save lives, not the boat. Boats are replaceable....

Just another possibility.

Do you suppose running a hose from one of the unused manifold outlets to a flooded bilge while shutting the raw-water inlet to the manifold would work? (I presume the two unused outlets were for a genset and raw-water washdown system which don't exist on my Coot.) The engine's water pump would have to lift the water a foot or two unless the flood water reached the engine compartment's floor.

markpierce said:

Do you suppose running a hose from one of the unused manifold outlets to a flooded bilge while shutting the raw-water inlet to the manifold would work? (I presume the two unused outlets were for a genset and raw-water washdown system which don't exist on my Coot.) The engine's water pump would have to lift the water a foot or two unless the flood water reached the engine compartment's floor.

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Unfortunately you smallish engine just wouldn't do enough to worry about..a hand bilge pump or even a tiny 500GPH bilge pump would probably be much more efficient and no danger in harming your engine.

markpierce said:

Do you suppose running a hose from one of the unused manifold outlets to a flooded bilge while shutting the raw-water inlet to the manifold would work? (I presume the two unused outlets were for a genset and raw-water washdown system which don't exist on my Coot.) The engine's water pump would have to lift the water a foot or two unless the flood water reached the engine compartment's floor.

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If you read what Baker and Rick B posted, it would seem that what you propose wouldn't be worth the effort as engine water pumps do not push enough water. Plus based on that photo, if you used those unused ports to run water in opposite direction to what they were intended for, water going through your RW pump and heat exchangers will be unfiltered as the flow you propose will bypass the strainer basket in you manifold. But, with how clean your bilge is, maybe bypassing the strainer is not an issue.

I have a set up similar to the drawing that Walt posted except my hose doesn't go through the hull. Strange drawing.

I don't know what my 1-1/4" Sherwood pump will move but I think about a 1000 GPH minimum. Some similar 1-1/4" rubber impeller pumps will move well over 2000 GPH depending on how fast they turn and the design of their cam. It cost me the price of two nipples, a tee, a ball valve, a hose barb, a couple of hose clamps and about three feet of hose. After reading the link Walt posted, I think I should add a strum box to the bottom to catch the big stuff.

When I bought the engine, I bought the optional V-Belt pulley with the idea that I could belt drive a larger emergency pump but I've never installed the pump.

ancora said:

Another example of "KISS" ignored.

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mmmm thats debateable mate!

whilst im all for KISS but IMHO its a good example of poor preventative maintenance.

PSS's dont just explode for no reason and without first showing signs of fatigue.

mahal said:

If you read what Baker and Rick B posted, it would seem that what you propose wouldn't be worth the effort as engine water pumps do not push enough water.

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It can't hurt ... Mark's engine will move about 20 GPM (1200 GPH) at 1800 rpm so it is at worst case equal to another bilge pump. A separate bilge pickup and strainer could be added to each of those spare fittings to provide a forward and an aft bilge suction.

Not much cost and nothing to lose really.

Also made are these. Called a safety seacock.
You just pull the plug.

looks kind of scary to me. What if you bumped it or something.

sd

Sd, It would be hard to pull the plug the plug by accident. You have to give it a quarter turn before it will pull out and it takes some effort to turn and pull it. You can also use it to flush your engine with fresh water or winterize it, what ever that is.

I've been thinking about this idea of using the engines raw water pump in an emergency, and I see some real challenges with that idea.

1. We're assuming that you can actually get to the valves in an emergency.

2. Unless the engine pump is undersized for the emergency, you're going to run dry. Then unless you're paying super close attention (with everything else that'll be going on) you're going to burn your engines pump impeller, possibly rendering the boat dead in the water.

The more I think about it, the more I like the AC powered pump. The one I posted earlier will move 95 GPM or 5700 GPH at a 5' head. Thats allot of water! More than most engine pumps. It takes approx 7 amps AC, which many of our boats have available using either an inverter or generator. You could also rig the pump up like a standard bilge pump with a on/auto mode switch. This would allow it to cycle, freeing you up to try to find and fix the source of the flooding.

I think the key here is early detection. Bells, lights, buzzers to tell you that you need to take action before the water gets to a point where it overcomes your electrical system.

I have a Y valve on my holding tank pumpout line, ahead of the pump, so that I can draw from the bilge, where the line terminates in a flat pickup with a screen. This will help at the rate of the attached pump, and will totally evacuate the part of the bilge in which it sits, as an added bonus. The only downside is that the pump doesn't like being run dry, so you need to keep an eye on it. In a flooding situation, that wouldn't be an issue. I doubt it could keep up to a failed PSS. I know of too many of those that have failed to ever consider having one on my boat.
I also carry a 2" trash pump. Sure it takes up space, but with a blue sunbrella cover, nobody knows how ugly it is.

ksanders said:

I've been thinking about this idea of using the engines raw water pump in an emergency, and I see some real challenges with that idea.

1. We're assuming that you can actually get to the valves in an emergency.

2. Unless the engine pump is undersized for the emergency, you're going to run dry. Then unless you're paying super close attention (with everything else that'll be going on) you're going to burn your engines pump impeller, possibly rendering the boat dead in the water.

The more I think about it, the more I like the AC powered pump. The one I posted earlier will move 95 GPM or 5700 GPH at a 5' head. Thats allot of water! More than most engine pumps. It takes approx 7 amps AC, which many of our boats have available using either an inverter or generator. You could also rig the pump up like a standard bilge pump with a on/auto mode switch. This would allow it to cycle, freeing you up to try to find and fix the source of the flooding.

I think the key here is early detection. Bells, lights, buzzers to tell you that you need to take action before the water gets to a point where it overcomes your electrical system.

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Absolutely!

The next important thing is progressive flooding. If you have a wide open bilge...you have to keep up with the flooding or be able to slow the flooding down...that's why early detection is important...so you can locate and work around the source of flooding quickly.

If your bilge is segmented into watertight or nearly so compartments...total pumping capacity can be reduced somewhat on how well the compartments are set up.

These are the types of things that help determine whether keeping her afloat will be possible depending on why the flooding is happening. A failed through hull or broken hose or topside water ingestion should be manageable for all boats...a submerged object strike opening even just a small hole and large crack may sink the average trawler unless you are really good with damage control and have someone working repair while another gets one or two 10,000 GPH trash pumps going.

I have been the one plugging the hole on a sinking boat it is a unnerving place to be when all you know is the water is rushing in and you can't see daylight. There is a reason salvage is expensive!

funangler said:

I have been the one plugging the hole on a sinking boat it is a unnerving place to be when all you know is the water is rushing in and you can't see daylight. There is a reason salvage is expensive!

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I'm with you on that. Laying down inside a 40" tunnel with an engine while trying to locate the origin of the gush may be a real test in courage/stupidity.