Island Gypsy

Hello all,
My wife and I have our eyes on a couple of Island Gypsy Trawlers and we are wondering if anyone has any experience and comments on either one.* The first one is a 1986, 32 ft. sedan for $68,900.00 and the other one is a 1990 Mark II Europa for $89,900.00.* We are in SW Florida so will want to cruise to the Keys from time to time.* Any comments will be welcomed since this willbe our first Trawler type boat.

Thanks,
Bob

Marine Traider is the place to look.

Those prices seem very high.

Bob:

Your choice of boats to be your first trawler is a great one! I have a 2005 Island Gypsy 32' Gourmet Cruiser that, after owning 7 boats since 1995, both my wife and I love. She (the boat) is solid glass, no coring, and has all the comforts one could ask for. Although my boat has no flybridge, she has a generous cockpit and a great master stateroom. Separate shower from the head is a big plus.

There are several people on this site that have Gypsies, one who comes to mind is Dave Hawkins in New England. (Look him up on this site or read the posts under Halvorsen Designs.)

My advice would be to buy the Europa as access to the bow for anchoring is a lot easier.

Walt


-- Edited by SeaHorse II on Sunday 29th of November 2009 09:22:36 AM

"Those prices seem very high."
__________________
FF

A review of similar boats on YachtWorld 2 would seem to indicate that those prices are not high!

Walt

Bob: Feel free to ask me anything about our IG32 Eurosedan. Still getting to know her after only one year of ownership after downsizing from a 38'+ woodie, but so far we like her a lot.



Walt: I see that the Island Gypsy brand is now under the new ownership of Maxi Marine. Hope that that bodes positive for the brand. I guess time will tell.

Finished my Garmin install and, if not too cold, will take some pics.

Question Walt: Did your boat come with engine room gratings? I've read that many IGs did but ours doesn't have them. Clambering over the transverses can be somewhat uncomfortable but not sure if gratings would make things better or worse.

Dave:

No engine room grates here. These are the only two pics I have of the ER.

Walt

Yachtworld or the non restricted brokerage sites cover a huge area.

This fellow is in SW Florida , prices should be 30 to 50% below Annopolis , Seattle or Newport.

Why pay extra?

FF

Thanks for your posts guys.....I have been studying the various websites including*Yachtworld and cannot find much of anything that costs less.* When we find lower costs and go take a look we usually see junk!!!!*

The 32 ft. 1986 Island Gypsy Sedan with flybridge at $68,000.00 asking price has teak decks and that is a little worrysome.* I don't think it has leaks but you just don't know.* The survey*hopefully will let me know about that.* The single Lehman has 3500 hours but from what I read that is just beginning to be broken-in.* It has a bow thruster for easy maneuvering.

The 36 ft. 1990 Island Gypsy MkII Europa does not have teak decks so that is good I guess.* It does have two engines at 1200 hrs but then that is twice the maintenance plus another $21K.*

I am also concidering a 1978 Mainship MKI with a Perkins at 825 original hours (At least that is what the hour meter says) for about $49,500.00 asking price.* This trawler does need some extra cleaning and shining but I don't mind the work.* Good way to make it your own.

What do you guys think about teak decks vrs. fiberglass?* Are these prices really all that bad?*

We have looked at several Grand Banks and Marine Traders but they seem to have window leak problems.* I did find a 1985 35 ft. President at $35K but she got away.* The lady lost her husband and was giving the boat away from what I can see.** You snooze....you loose!!!

Your comments will be much appreciated.

Thanks,
Bob

I hate to say this, but ----------------- run and hide from teak decks on 20+ year old boats unless* you are 100.00% sure of the substructure integrity. Note the posts on fuel tanks destroyed by teak deck leaks.

A fellow on our dock has a 36' (I think) Island Gypsy. I believe it's a single but I could be mistaken. A couple of years ago he replaced the teak decks with fiberglass. To restore the stiffness the teak had*provided he added four layers of fiberglass plus the non-skid surface.* Not all types of boats*need this but apparently Island Gypsies do. *The main deck is as strong as a battleship now.* A marine engineer with a boat on our dock said that, in his opinion, two additional layers of glass would have been sufficient to restore the stiffness the Island Gypsy's deck lost when the teak was removed, and that four was a bit overkill.

In any event, the end result is extremely well done. It took him a summer and a half of steady work to accomplish it, however, and he recently told me that if he had known what the job entailed to do it correctly he never would have started it.

If a GB has leaking windows, it is an easily repaired problem. Any boat that is neglected or not given proper maintenance can have window problems---- this seems a common trait among almost all boats as they get older no matter how their windows are constructed.* Over the years we have overhauled almost all of the windows on our* fiberglass GB although none of them were leaking-- the overhauls were to refinish frames, replace old glass, or replace worn out tracks on the opening windows. Once we learned how to do it it's a pretty straightforward process and the overhauled windows should be good for a couple of decades or more before needing any further*attention.

We much prefer a teak deck to a fiberglass surface because of its far superior traction, wet or dry. Plus we like the look of a teak deck. But an older teak deck can need some maintenance, and sometimes pretty intense maintenance if the deck has not been cared for properly or if repairs to the seams have not been done correctly. Our boat still has its original teak decks, which are now more than 36 years old. Previous owners sanded it too much and it was in pretty bad shape when we bought the boat--- seams had pulled loose from the sides of the grooves, half the deck screw plugs were missing, etc. A shipwright with a lot of teak deck experience determined that there was still barely enough plank thickness left to make the deck serviceable so he recut all the grooves and re-seamed the deck.

In the case of a GB, removing a teak deck makes the boat harder to sell, or requires the price to be dropped accordingly unless one is lucky enough to find a buyer who prefers a fiberglass deck. But the teak deck is part of the appeal of the boat to almost all GB buyers and the few GBs that have come through our local GB dealer that had fiberglass decks took a long time to sell and the price had to be reduced accordingly. One boat's*price had to be dropped by the cost of replacing the teak deck before it sold.* *I cannot say if this*sort of thing*holds true for the "Taiwan trawler" brands like CHB, Puget Trawler, etc.

Teak decks are incredibly expensive to replace. Some ten years ago the quoted cost to replace the teak planking on a GB36 ranged from $20,000 to $30,000 depending on who gave you the quote, and it's for sure a lot more now given the skyrocketing cost of proper Burmese teak (as opposed to plantation teak which is considerably inferior). So we are very conscientious about properly maintaining the deck we have now. So far, so good.

Here's a photo showing our then 32-year old deck from a few years ago. This was a few years after we'd had it re-seamed and we'd replaced many, many*hundreds of deck screw plugs.

PS-- It appears in the photo that the seam lines are squiggley, at least on my computer.* If they look this way on the computer you're using, it's something to do with the photo file.* The seams on the actual boat are straight and even.



-- Edited by Marin on Monday 30th of November 2009 06:26:38 PM

Oh man, there's that boat again!!!! I want that thing so badly and cannot sell my boat!!!

We purchased a 36 IG last February. Our cost was significatly less than the $$ mentioned. Ours has a single diesel with bow thruster and 1200 hours on the engine and 450 on the gen set. This boat is solid as they could come. Solid core, no fillers in the hull or any deck structures and the boat was very clean. Only complaint I have is the flimsy bow thruster and the way the prop is fastened to the shaft. But I'm having that addressed.

sunvale said:

We purchased a 36 IG last February....Ours has a single diesel with bow thruster and 1200 hours on the engine and 450 on the gen set. This boat is solid as they could come. Solid core, no fillers in the hull or any deck structures and the boat was very clean. Only complaint I have is the flimsy bow thruster and the way the prop is fastened to the shaft...

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Congratulations. AndyG will be impressed. Can you tell us the build year and hull number?
When you say "solid core', do you mean the hull is solid f/g?
The decks can be an issue, I hope yours are good. See "IG teak decks" thread.

Congratulations Sunvale, don't believe a thing Bruce says about deck issues, I know for a fact that no IG has ever experienced deck issues, it's all in the mind of the owners, they can be a pretty fragile lot.

How about a bit more info, pic's etc. What's the issue with the prop?

BruceK said:

Congratulations. AndyG will be impressed. Can you tell us the build year and hull number?
When you say "solid core', do you mean the hull is solid f/g?
The decks can be an issue, I hope yours are good. See "IG teak decks" thread.

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Ours is solid core hull. No teak decks. They too are solid with no core. House is another matter.

Andy G said:

Congratulations Sunvale, don't believe a thing Bruce says about deck issues, I know for a fact that no IG has ever experienced deck issues, it's all in the mind of the owners...

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Ask Andy for a copy of his deck spend list. On second thoughts, don`t,you`ll just upset him.
We were lucky, our composite decks were foam cored (rare,previously unknown fit-out). About to go to check progress on the deck reno nearing completion.
David, glad to hear later IGs sold in USA had solid f/g decks, a great improvement of the product.

I know nothing of IG boats but do know for that money you can buy much more boat then 32' For me a queen birth was a big deal...I slept in a v berth for 4 years

Our IG36 is configured with a semi island queen bed in the forward(only)sleeping cabin. I call it the "selfish couple`s" fit out; it has the shower compartment separate from head too. The saloon converts to a big double/queen.
The IG32 is a surprisingly big boat, maybe that affects pricing. IGs were not your typical "Taiwanese trawler", closer to a GB in many ways, maybe due to the Halvorsen design/quality antecedents and input.
I admit to being a biased owner.

The "Kong" in Kong and Halvorsen, who built the Island Gypsy, worked for American Marine in Kowloon first, where he was instrumental in designing that company's new line of diesel cruisers in the 1960s, a line they named "Grand Banks." He was with American Marine for some years before leaving and teaming up with Halvorsen to create their own line of diesel cruisers. So there is good reason for the many similarities between GB and IG.

Is that Peter Kong your referring to? Well live and learn, I always thought that he provided the finance for the operation and the Halvorsen's the boat building expertise.

Yes, there is a strong similarity between the GB and IG's of that era. I wonder where they got the mould for the classic 36' IG's from, bet there is a story there.

The simularities between the early eighties IslandGypsys and the Grandbanks are what originally drew me to consider buying one.

We really like our 1983 32 footer, It is high in quality and a good design on its own merit. I think the boat is dryer than the GB32 as I believe there is more flare to the bow.

Decks are teak and holding well, This past season I removed the varnish from the caprail, eyebrows, and the hand rails and bridge ladder. All the teak is now a uniform silver and the wood maintenance is dramatically reduced.

The boat has a big feel too it, but it is still a pocket cruiser for sure.

Island Gypsy boats are very nice. IMHO.

JohnP

I have a 1976 36' Island Gypsy. I love the boat except for the teak deck leaks. I am selling it very cheap because of this. $32,000 Great Dual Diesel, Hull is solid and does not leak. Great boat but I have not the time or money to fix it.

Andy- His son, Shin Kong, lives in the SFO Bay Area, has a GB, and is a member of the GB owners group. He has provided a lot of photos and history about his father's years with American Marine.

FWIW, are non GB owners welcome on the GB forum?

Andy G said:

FWIW, are non GB owners welcome on the GB forum?

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Yes. In past years there have been several participants in the forum who did not have GBs although they did not say what kind of boats they had.

Most of the things discussed on the forum have to do with boat systems, repair, upgrades, and so on and as such they can be relevant to just about any kind of cruising boat. There are also a fair number of members with wood GBs so there are frequent discussions on wood construction, repair and maintenance.

What would probably not be a good idea is if someone started talking about or asking about issues as they relate to another kind of boat. The discussions are obviously focused on GB boats and I don't think the forum would want people talking about their Bayliners or CHBs or whatever, particularly issues that are unique to those kinds of boats. One piece, aluminum framed windows, for example. It is most definitely not an "open" forum like this one in terms of the boats themselves.

The forum is free to join although they encourage making an annual donation (via PayPal) to help cover the cost of maintaining the forum and they acknowledge the people who have donated by a line in their avatar. There is a very good search function, similar to the one on this forum, so it's easy to go back and find discussions on finishes or deck maintenance or whatever.

There are actually two GB owners forums. The one with the most participation is the independent Grand Banks Owner's Resources The other one is sponsored by Grand Banks themselves and is GB Beacon | Home for Grand Banks enthusiasts across the globe.

The story of why there are two now instead of one is a long one, but the independent forum has the greatest participation. GB Beacon, however, has Mike Negley as a member and he is one of the two most knowledgeable people on GB boats, the other being Bob Lowe on the independent forum. It was great when there was just the one forum with both of them on it. I wish Mike would participate in the independent forum, too.

One of the best assets of the GB forum is the manuals section. There are manuals for engines, transmissions, etc. most of which can be downloaded. You have to be a member to access the manuals section.

Andy G said:

Is that Peter Kong your referring to?.. I always thought that he provided the finance for the operation and the Halvorsen's the boat building expertise.

Yes, there is a strong similarity between the GB and IG's of that era. I wonder where they got the mould for the classic 36' IG's from, bet there is a story there.

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The Owners Manual reveals it was Joseph H. H. Kong. He and Harvey Halvorsen sign the "Welcome On Board" page. The builder is identified as "Kong & Halvorsen Marine and Engineering Company Limited".
Harvey Halvorsen is often credited as the IG designer, I believe he resides in northern Sydney.
The fit-out has elements of traditional Halvorsen design, eg. the "anchor" design locker/cupboard vents in the cabin, while reproducing some GB features.The hull design is differs from older Australian built classic Halvorsens and does not reproduce the GB bow. I was surprised to recently see a Halvorsen around 50ft, built to traditional design in the early 1970s, in steel.
IGs up to 44ft were built in fibreglass, 50, 57, 65, 72 and 80ft models were built in wood. I have seen a 50ft model, of considerable volume and grand design, undergo a major refit after sinking. It was built of meranti, not the best choice judging from the rot.
While shopping for "Doriana" a broker commented the GB and IG were virtually the same boat. That may draw protests from GB owners but I think tells us Kong & Halvorsen`s aim in producing the IG range. I understand the GB is regarded as a better sea-boat.

BruceK said:

While shopping for "Doriana" a broker commented the GB and IG were virtually the same boat. That may draw protests from GB owners but I think tells us Kong & Halvorsen`s aim in producing the IG range. I understand the GB is regarded as a better sea-boat.

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The couple of IG owners I know here personally, including the fellow who replaced his wood deck with a fiberglass deck that is probably done better than the manufacturer could have done it, refer to their boats as "poor man's Grand Banks."

I have never heard the specifics for this attitude other than they say they are built lighter. I've never actually been in one so I can't compare the interior craftsmanship and so on.

I don't know about the better sea-boat business. Neither one of them are blue-water boats; with their big windows, relatively shallow draft semi-planing hulls, and wide transoms they are coastal boats only.

The fellow with the re-decked IG on our dock has taken his boat to SE Alaska several times Based on that and what his boat looks like out of the water I would be very hesitant to make any "better than" claim for either boat regarding their capabilities.

Replacing Island Island port lights

I am new to this posting idea and hope this is the correct place for it.. We have just purchased a fabulous 1983 44" Island Gypsy in good condition. We are interested in changing out the 8 existing plastic Master stateroom port windows and would like to upgrade them to bronze. We are having a difficult time finding ones large enough. These are approximately 10" x 20" . Any suggestions where to find them?
Thanks
Robinini

Marin said:

The couple of IG owners I know here personally.. refer to their boats as "poor man's Grand Banks."
I have never heard the specifics for this attitude other than they say they are built lighter. I've never actually been in one so I can't compare the interior craftsmanship and so on.
I don't know about the better sea-boat business. Neither one of them are blue-water boats; with their big windows, relatively shallow draft semi-planing hulls, and wide transoms they are coastal boats only.

The fellow with the re-decked IG on our dock has taken his boat to SE Alaska several times Based on that and what his boat looks like out of the water I would be very hesitant to make any "better than" claim for either boat regarding their capabilities.

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Fair comment. The only authoritative way to compare sea keeping ability would be sea trial comparisons. I doubt that has or will happen. I regard mine as a coastal cruiser. There is a GB36 advertised here as coming from Singapore on its own bottom. Could have been a millpond all the way. Or not.
I don`t disagree with the "poor mans Banks" view. I`ll certainly be a "poorer man" after I pay the final deck reno bill.
I think GB set a benchmark; the IG is largely derivative and it differs from past Halvorsen design. An experienced local surveyor said IGs are "constructed to a high boat building standard", he considered the IG36 "seaworthy for coastal passages in fine weather", I don`t disagree with the latter but have been beyond that ,in safety, with due care.

I would agree with Marin and Bruce on the IG vs. GB comments.