bow thrusters

Adelaide · Jul 16, 2013

IslandEagle said:
I'll offer up a fairly contrarian opinion:

There is no need for either a bow or stern thruster.

Island Eagle is 60 feet, single screw, and has plenty of windage as you can see from my avatar. With that said, I have never encountered a situation where I have not been able to dock her in complete safety. Yes, you have to plan it out. Yes, you have to get your spring lines in place. Yes, you have to practice. Yes, you have to know your boat.

Here's my advice: try living without a thruster, and practice! One really great way to practice is to throw a life jacket overboard and then go around and put the boat right beside the life jacket. Your partner in the cockpit should be able to grab it with a boathook. The other great way to practice is by approaching a mooring buoy. You should be able to just kiss it.

For "normal" boats in the 30 to 40 foot range, learning to handle the boat is actually a lot of fun. Try it!

Scott Welch
Island Eagle

Honestly, have you ever had transmission issues? I can dock my boat just fine without my stern thruster, but man, I do have to use my transmission 90% more than I do when I use my thruster.....and I almost never have to fling it in reverse to get the prop walk. I'm convinced that a thruster is better for an engine's transmission.

johnma · Jul 16, 2013

I would agree they are completely unecessary on a twin engine boat. With a single, if your boat was built with a large rudder and you have a lot of room in the fairway they are unecessary. However, If your boat is like mine, with a relitively small rudder, an loa of 39'8" and a fairway that is less than 39' wide, the bow thruster is pretty much required. I can get out of the slip without it by backing and filling multiple times, playing with spring lines, etc. Being able to do that and HAVING to do that are two different things. If I wanted to really work at boating I'd trade the trwaler for a sailboat.
John
MS390

Gulf Comanche · Jul 16, 2013

Yes, I have a bow thruster and know how to use it. Had it installed when the boat came off the truck in New Orleans. But, the day will come when it fails like all boat stuff does, and I'll get Old School docked, no problem.

psneeld · Jul 16, 2013

If you are reasonably agile and really understand and practice with spring lines...thrusters are on the desired but not needed list.

If not and single handling a single a lot...spend the money and enjoy your boating.

IslandEagle · Jul 16, 2013

Adelaide said:
They are a necessity imo for a single engine trawler.

I disagree. They might be a "nice to have", but "neceessity"? No way. I've had Island Eagle ten years and have never once felt that it would have helped to have a bow thruster. And let you think that I never dock -- last week I had to dock bow-out BEHIND the 158 footer here, right where the 50 footer and the little boat are: http://goo.gl/maps/05SWq

Ease in slowly down the channel past After Eight (the 158 footer), favouring the starboard side. Back and fill to port and get the bow 6 feet off the dock. Throw the bow line down and lead it to the aft (shore-most) cleat on the dock. Use that line as a spring and using full port rudder bring the stern in against the dock. Throw a bow and stern line down, and you're done in less than 10 minutes.

Either one will do just fine. Your transmission will thank you and so will your significant other.

First, transmissions are designed to be shifted. A few back-and-forths at idle are not going to hurt anything. And second, when you take it nice and slow, your S. O. will thank you as well.

Scott Welch
Island Eagle

IslandEagle · Jul 16, 2013

Adelaide said:
Honestly, have you ever had transmission issues?

Nope, never.

I can dock my boat just fine without my stern thruster, but man, I do have to use my transmission 90% more than I do when I use my thruster.....and I almost never have to fling it in reverse to get the prop walk. I'm convinced that a thruster is better for an engine's transmission.

Well, I'm not sure that shifting is bad for the transmissions... in any event, I have a massive Allison MH tranny rated at about 500 HP, it weighs half a ton, and I'm running about 180 HP through it, so I think it should last about forever.

Scott Welch
Island Eagle

psneeld · Jul 16, 2013

IslandEagle said:
I disagree. They might be a "nice to have", but "neceessity"? No way. I've had Island Eagle ten years and have never once felt that it would have helped to have a bow thruster. And let you think that I never dock -- last week I had to dock bow-out BEHIND the 158 footer here, right where the 50 footer and the little boat are: http://goo.gl/maps/05SWq

Ease in slowly down the channel past After Eight (the 158 footer), favouring the starboard side. Back and fill to port and get the bow 6 feet off the dock. Throw the bow line down and lead it to the aft (shore-most) cleat on the dock. Use that line as a spring and using full port rudder bring the stern in against the dock. Throw a bow and stern line down, and you're done in less than 10 minutes.

First, transmissions are designed to be shifted. A few back-and-forths at neutral are not going to hurt anything. And second, when you take it nice and slow, your S. O. will thank you as well.

Scott Welch
Island Eagle

Correct...not a necessity...

And transmissions can take a HUGE beating....I know I'm in the assistance towing business and the Borg-Warner in the tow boat sees a rougher life in one week of ungroundings than most trawler trannys see in a lifetime (with a decent skipper of course...

)

Scout · Jul 16, 2013

We have a single with both bow and stern thrusters. Maybe not necessary, but we boat more because my wife is much more confident. For us it's about being comfortable in using our boat when we want to.

CPseudonym · Jul 16, 2013

My 2 cents...

I beat this issue around in my mind for weeks while boat shopping. Both sides of the coin make sense to me, these are pleasure boats. If a thruster brings you pleasure get one. If not, don't worry about it.

We bought our first larger boat about 6 months ago, single engine - no thruster. The first time putting it in the slip it woulda been nice to have one. Every time since then I haven't given it a second thought. There are plenty of times it would of been nice but got by fine without it, and I haven't used a spring line yet. I'm in a reasonably tight fairway with a teeny tiny planing hull rudder and have thus far managed to park the boat every time with the gelcoat still intact.

Everybody is instructed to stay seated while docking and it's just me at the wheel until the boat is in the slip or adjacent to the dock or other boat. Sure I've looked like a fool a few times and taken a second shot at it a few as well but that's how we learn.

Bow thruster, stern thruster, harbor tug, use whatever you feel you need to enjoy your boating experience. I only ever spend 5 to 10 minutes per day maximum docking the boat the rest of the time we're out enjoying it.

Codger2 · Jul 16, 2013

johnma said:
I would agree they are completely unecessary on a twin engine boat. With a single, if your boat was built with a large rudder and you have a lot of room in the fairway they are unecessary. However, If your boat is like mine, with a relitively small rudder,.....

My sentiments exactly!

Adelaide · Jul 17, 2013

IslandEagle said:
I disagree. They might be a "nice to have", but "neceessity"? No way.
Scott Welch
Island Eagle

It's OK to disagree. IMO, the OP, who stated he will be single handling a single engine trawler, should look to a thruster for an added measure of safety. For me, it's a necessity when single handling a boat with 1 engine. But again, it's OK to disagree here.

As far as your transmission goes, I'm glad to hear your transmission is built like a tank.

Steve · Jul 17, 2013

Not a necessity but, in my opinion sure nice to have.
By the way, I have a friend who won't take novacain when the dentist drills his teeth.

SCOTTEDAVIS · Jul 17, 2013

Huh!!

You're manhood is not larger if you manage to bump into the dock not using a thruster, yep folks been doing it for years (news flash they are the ones that invented the thruster).

I have sailed into a slip in the past without power when my aux. failed, not my first choice mind you but yep anything can be done when there is no better way.

I bet I could get the anchor up without the windless, swim to shore without the dingy and drink my cocktails without ice.
I have in the past, so I guess I could also go a week without a shower, and read by candlelight or use a plumb line to check the depth. Why?

The OP's question SHOULD be answered with the truth, a bow thruster makes close maneuvers much easier, safer, more relaxing and more fun. It is my unsolicited opinion that if it is at all possible a thruster, windless, ice-maker, lots of hot water are must haves. At the risk of my shrinking manhood that I will keep my electronics as well.

Boating is fun and relaxing for me, but I toast you rugged tough guys (with ice in my drink) and you're great manhood, I will keep using my thruster equipped single as Neptune intended.

I think for most couples in retirement running a 30+ foot single a thruster is a necessity.

Peter B · Jul 17, 2013

Not quite a necessity, as we manage fine without, but if you have one, that's also good, as they come in handy occasionally, and if you don't have one, you are a bit more selective in what you do. For example, I don't bother trying to back into my berth. Actually it works better for us that way anyway.

I see this issue as more like the comparison with the new gadgets we now have in our cars. If you never had a car with power windows, central locking, auto adjusting seats, anti-lock brakes, stability control, and climate control aircon...you manage...right..? But once you have had a car with those, you find yourself wondering how you managed without, because they are neat, and make life easier. My wife has the new car with all those things, and I love it, but mine only has central locking and power windows, and none the rest, and I certainly would not even think of trying to add those other things, I'm happy to do without. So it is with thrusters in my view.

psneeld · Jul 17, 2013

SCOTTEDAVIS said:
Huh!!

You're manhood is not larger if you manage to bump into the dock not using a thruster, yep folks been doing it for years (news flash they are the ones that invented the thruster).

I have sailed into a slip in the past without power when my aux. failed, not my first choice mind you but yep anything can be done when there is no better way.

I bet I could get the anchor up without the windless, swim to shore without the dingy and drink my cocktails without ice.
I have in the past, so I guess I could also go a week without a shower, and read by candlelight or use a plumb line to check the depth. Why?

The OP's question SHOULD be answered with the truth, a bow thruster makes close maneuvers much easier, safer, more relaxing and more fun. It is my unsolicited opinion that if it is at all possible a thruster, windless, ice-maker, lots of hot water are must haves. At the risk of my shrinking manhood that I will keep my electronics as well.

Boating is fun and relaxing for me, but I toast you rugged tough guys (with ice in my drink) and you're great manhood, I will keep using my thruster equipped single as Neptune intended.

I think for most couples in retirement running a 30+ foot single a thruster is a necessity.

People gave their reasons for and against...I'm sure the OP will figure it out...

Start calling things on a boat a necessity...well that's a slippery slope...

Hendo78 · Jul 17, 2013

psneeld said:
People gave their reasons for and against...I'm sure the OP will figure it out...

Start calling things on a boat a necessity...well that's a slippery slope...

Lol agreed tho it sure has been entertaining watching this thread. Two words come to mind .... Chill ... Pill ....

Sent from my iPhone using Trawler

SCOTTEDAVIS · Jul 17, 2013

psneeld said:
Start calling things on a boat a necessity...well that's a slippery slope...

True enough, next thing we will start saying is that recreational boats are a necessity.

You know, giving some thought to the definition of "necessity" to a skier ski lifts are not a necessity either, you could just climb the mountain.

But I did say most retired folks (65+) operating as a couple will find them oh so nice.

Codger2 · Jul 17, 2013

SCOTTEDAVIS said:
I bet I could get the anchor up without the windless, swim to shore without the dingy and drink my cocktails without ice.
I have in the past, so I guess I could also go a week without a shower, and read by candlelight or use a plumb line to check the depth. Why?

The OP's question SHOULD be answered with the truth, a bow thruster makes close maneuvers much easier, safer, more relaxing and more fun.

Well said, Scott! I think that's the kind of answer the single handling OP wanted to hear.

psneeld · Jul 17, 2013

coke said:
Can someone comment on bow thrusters or stern thrusters as to the necessity of them. Are they an item that someone with little experience should consider getting when they purchase a boat.

Thought I would bring the original post back up so "the retired folk" having trouble remembering what the OP asked would be refreshed.....

Windlasses, dinks and ice can't be replaced as well as boat handling skills can replace a bow thruster...

coke · Jul 17, 2013

Yes, this is the type of reply I am looking for. I know that there are necessities and nice to have items. I bet almost all of you have a GPS on board but if you have a map you really shouldn't need one. Rather than bounce my yacht off the dock or your boat, I think I will try to procure a thruster. If I don't use it a year from now, great. It will be another feature when the yacht sells.

Codger2 · Jul 17, 2013

coke said:
Yes, this is the type of reply I am looking for....Rather than bounce my yacht off the dock or your boat, I think I will try to procure a thruster. If I don't use it a year from now, great. It will be another feature when the yacht sells.

& the very best of luck to you!

IslandEagle · Jul 17, 2013

Adelaide said:
As far as your transmission goes, I'm glad to hear your transmission is built like a tank.

In fact, funnily enough, Allison's big business now is tank transmissions, but that was an outgrowth of the MH marine transmission that is in Island Eagle!

Scott

IslandEagle · Jul 17, 2013

SCOTTEDAVIS said:
The OP's question SHOULD be answered with the truth, a bow thruster makes close maneuvers much easier, safer, more relaxing and more fun.

Actually, I did answer with the truth. That statement is not true for me.

I think for most couples in retirement running a 30+ foot single a thruster is a necessity.

We're a couple, and we run a 60 footer, and we've never missed it.

Just another data point to consider.

Scott Welch
Island Eagle

skipperdude · Jul 17, 2013

The issue as I see it regarding the thruster no thruster is the practice thing.
How often do you really get the opportunity to practice?

If you have to dock 20 times in a season that is a lot.
Doing something 20 times a year is not enough to become proficient.

Chasing a buoy or life jacket around in calm water is nothing like maneuvering into a slip.

I live in Alaska yet I use my boat all year long Fishing all summer and crabbing all winter. I have become good at using my single screw. My tyranny is a 506 Twin Disc. Arguably one of the most bullet proof tyranny's around.

Many times I have been given the thumbs up or the way to go skipper.

But it takes lots of practice.

If you can. Get a thruster and use it. You are never going to get enough practice.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

SD

mahal · Jul 17, 2013

skipperdude said:
The issue as I see it regarding the thruster no thruster is the practice thing.
How often do you really get the opportunity to practice?

If you have to dock 20 times in a season that is a lot.
Doing something 20 times a year is not enough to become proficient.

Chasing a buoy or life jacket around in calm water is nothing like maneuvering into a slip.

I live in Alaska yet I use my boat all year long Fishing all summer and crabbing all winter. I have become good at using my single screw. My tyranny is a 506 Twin Disc. Arguably one of the most bullet proof tyranny's around.

Many times I have been given the thumbs up or the way to go skipper.

But it takes lots of practice.

If you can. Get a thruster and use it. You are never going to get enough practice.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

SD

Very good point SD. There are people that take their boat out a lot and quickly become proficient at close quarters maneuvering, then there are those that take their boats out ten times a year (if lucky enough to find the time) that take a very long time to become comfortable at handling their boat in close quarters. Obviously the first group would be wasting money with thrusters whereas the second group could benefit from them.

bligh · Jul 17, 2013

IslandEagle · Jul 17, 2013

mahal said:
Very good point SD. There are people that take their boat out a lot and quickly become proficient at close quarters maneuvering, then there are those that take their boats out ten times a year (if lucky enough to find the time) that take a very long time to become comfortable at handling their boat in close quarters. Obviously the first group would be wasting money with thrusters whereas the second group could benefit from them.

Again, just a data point to consider: I use my boat once a year, in the summer. Typically about 4 weeks at a time.

Like I said before, there is no reason at all that you can't learn to put your boat close enough to the dock so that you can step ashore.

Scott Welch
Island Eagle

Adelaide · Jul 17, 2013

Boy, the anti-thruster crowd is aggressive.....why?

cafesport · Jul 17, 2013

My wife learned to dock and undock a boat with thrusters in winds and currents in two days. She never got comfortable enough to do the same with a twin engine sport fish in 5 years. Oddly enough she did manage to dock a few sailing boats under sail. Go figure. Get the boat, learn your limits, try to operate within your comfort zone as often as possible and have fun.

psneeld · Jul 18, 2013

Adelaide said:
Boy, the anti-thruster crowd is aggressive.....why?

First of all there's no such thing as the anti-thruster crown. In a normal conversation I doubt you would hear and one say "hey...let's take your thruster out this weekend as it's a useless POS anyhow"

It only usually only seems like there's an anti side if someone discusses a thruster as a necessity...and as we all know....that like many things on a boat...some things are a necessity for some and not for others. If a response is worded that way then I doubt many of these threads would be maybe 10 posts long instead of 10 pages long. But people feel the need to impose THEIR needs on others.

If the anti crowd seems aggressive...what about posts such as this...would you say that it may be slighty aggressive?....

Originally Posted by SCOTTEDAVIS

I bet I could get the anchor up without the windless, swim to shore without the dingy and drink my cocktails without ice.
I have in the past, so I guess I could also go a week without a shower, and read by candlelight or use a plumb line to check the depth. Why?

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