Frustrated with yacht brokers

IslandEagle said:

As others have pointed out, and I will emphasize, brokers only make money when they sell a boat. I'm guessing that you're not about to buy a Nordhaven. So why would a broker with a Nordhaven for sale bother showing it to you? He's never going to make money on it.

One thing to remember is that boat brokers are often not located in the same place as the boat. When I was looking for Island Eagle, I looked at a boat in Oakland and the broker flew down from Seattle. That costs real money, and the broker wants to make darn sure that I'm at least a good prospect.

You need to have a realistic idea in mind of what type of boat you are going to buy and how much you are going to spend before a broker will take you seriously. When you have a realistic budget and target boat in mind, I'm sure brokers will take you seriously.

Scott Welch
Island Eagle

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These guys don't know me.
When I viewed the Hats the owners showed me. This should be no different.
Maybe I will decide that I love the Nordy. I wouldn't know until I look at it. He doesn't know what I will buy.

Thanks for all of the responses. I'm going to try again tomorrow.

GalaxyGirl said:

The funny thing is that whenever I e-mail an out of the country brokers they are very attentive. They answer all the questions quickly, send pics, and ask about viewings. Now, here I go calling for showings on boats that are 20 minutes from me and nothing.

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Try emailing the local brokers.

BruceK said:

Try emailing the local brokers.

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Yup, I did.
I even tried e-mailing them under a different name, "Mike".

I'm calling the main office today instead of their cell. Let's see if that works.

One last comment about suggestions of lying to try and get more attention from a broker.

Dont lie, lying never wins - just be honest. Brokers who dont show you the attention you just need to drop them. I didn't pursue a trawler one time because I didn't trust the broker who never returned my calls and initially made promises of grandeaur which I knew were rubbish.

As in all things in life find a good partner and the results will be much better.

GalaxyGirl said:

Yup, I did.
I even tried e-mailing them under a different name, "Mike".

I'm calling the main office today instead of their cell. Let's see if that works.

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This might be more simple than we think.

If you are e-mailing the broker directly...

If you are calling his cell directly...

Possibly he does not work at that brokerage, or any brokerage for that matter any more.

Possibly the listing is expired, or he knows a reason why the boat will never sell.

Calling the main office is a great idea.

Wish I could recommend a buyer broker with integrity. But I cannot.

I don't know if this has been suggested before, but maybe hiring a buyer's broker would be the way to go. Convince your own broker that you are serious, have the money, etc. Let your broker qualify you and then let him make contact with the seller's broker.

Just a thought,

Bob

BobH said:

I don't know if this has been suggested before, but maybe hiring a buyer's broker would be the way to go. Convince your own broker that you are serious, have the money, etc. Let your broker qualify you and then let him make contact with the seller's broker.

Just a thought,

Bob

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Bob - And, a good thought too! To a large extent, especially in the services industry... ya gets whats cha pay fer!

G Girl...

Seeing as you are new to the "boat market"... and... you've implied more than once that you have plenty of dough! One or two "Boat Bucks" up front to a reputable personal boat broker (ya know - one that's on your side!) will probably save you much $$$$ and yards of hassle in the short and long runs.

As always, GG - - > Good Luck!

I agree with Bob, a buyers broker would be the best way to go for you.
Not only for the reasons stated above, but you could also find one that has considerable knowledge about boats that could help educate you and protect you from a bad investment along the way.
I know of several captains in the PNW that have their brokers license only to supplement their regular income. They are sailors first, brokers second. They are not totally focused on the sale so to speak. I would suggest finding a broker that will work with you in that way.

GalaxyGirl said:

Phil,
Your right. That's the way Real estate works also. Pre-Approvals are key, but I am paying cash.
I would feel funny lying about having a boat already, then I would have to keep the lye going when questioned.

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Even if you are going to pay cash, I would advise you to get preapproved finance and/or insurance as both are a great resource of information and they will make sure buying the boat goes smoothly and correctly. Maybe have your personal bank give them a call. I have/had my attorney and/or personal bankers make calls.

I agree lying is not the best most times, but some times to over come obstacles? In small/many ways we all do! Saying you are Mike is going to be harder to explain than not having a boat? Can you look and sound like a Mike?

Like it or not, there are three factors against you; a newbie, want a be live aboard with young children and female .

Being you have not formal actual knowledge and experience trying qualify and buy a boat that size and value, is a big factor against you. Talk the talk, and walk the walk.

I would not mention want to be a live aboard and with young children. For some reason getting finance and/or insurance is harder and more expensive than non live aboard. Live aboard moorage is very limited, less than 5%, and the broker will also factor that in.

Weather we like it or not there is still preconceived notion. I know that first hand as people in general behave differently if they perceive female or a male. My wife gets upset some times as to the service she receives vs. I receive in my male mode. We/I usually search out females as they usually have had to earn/work for their position/job, tend to listing and be open minded.

I still do not take you serious as I been in you place and done that. Don’t get me wrong, I am all for you, willing to spend the time, but the odds are stacked against you.

Blue Heron said:

Wish I could recommend a buyer broker with integrity. But I cannot.

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There are a number I would heartily recommend in the Washington State/BC lower coast area in a heartbeat if asked.

Galaxy Girl,
Since I am in Florida it is hard to help you find the right boat. I have found boats around the US for other TF members but they knew what they wanted, I just found the right boat at the right price in different parts of the east coast.
Before you can buy a boat you need to line up insurance and financing. Most insurance companies do not want to insure a larger boat unless the buyer has experience, so you need to get the real information now from an insurance agent. Get a commitment for a size range of boats, dollar value, and if they will require a captain for the first six months or year to be on board when you leave the dock.
Are you going to finance part of the purchase? Most banks will not finance a live aboard unless you also own real estate, their collateral could disappear over the horizon at any time. Get a pre approval for a price range as you do not know which boat it will be. The bank will be more interested in your credit than the value of the boat anyway.
When this is done tell the brokers and they will take you more seriously.

Also send to me a pm with the boats that you want to see in Massachusetts and your realistic price range so I have an insight about what you like.

With all due respect and your "behavior" on here...I think the brokers have you pegged! Sorry. You gotta figure out what you want.

ksanders said:

This might be more simple than we think.

If you are e-mailing the broker directly...

If you are calling his cell directly...

Possibly he does not work at that brokerage, or any brokerage for that matter any more.

Possibly the listing is expired, or he knows a reason why the boat will never sell.

Calling the main office is a great idea.

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I just called and spoke to the secretary on one of the boats. She is trying to contact the guy also. Let's see.

Baker said:

With all due respect and your "behavior" on here...I think the brokers have you pegged! Sorry. You gotta figure out what you want.

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So, your suggesting that the brokers know me from the forum. I havn't even gotten on the phone with them yet. My name isn't on the forum. And even if that were the case, they sure are stupid, because I will be a cash buyer. Everyone says go look at boats, and I say, no, not until I find the right boat. Finally, I concede, I will look at boats, and now I get, don't look until you know exactly what you want. You can't win here.

You would be a very difficult person to deal with.

I have been waiting on a real estate broker to schedule a showing since last weekend. No return calls, emails --- nada!!

GalaxyGirl said:

So, your suggesting that the brokers know me from the forum. I havn't even gotten on the phone with them yet. My name isn't on the forum. And even if that were the case, they sure are stupid, because I will be a cash buyer. Everyone says go look at boats, and I say, no, not until I find the right boat. Finally, I concede, I will look at boats, and now I get, don't look until you know exactly what you want. You can't win here.

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Well then...go kick some tires locally!!!! I will tell you right now....the vast majority of us have spent our "boating careers" trying to "hone our boating needs and wants". We have done it through trial and error and through numerous boat purchases and sales. And most likely, we ain't finished yet....right Walt???

But I think at this point, I really do agree with the suggestion of sitting down with a buyer's broker(I hate that term BTW). I don't know how good of a judge of character you are. But you have to find somebody you are comfortable with and the only way that is gonna happen is if you meet them face to face. You have to get your hands dirty and your feet sandy and salty. You can't do that over the internet. We can only help so much from afar.

Another suggestion I have is to find a friend that can help you and be your sounding board....somebody that is knowledgeable about boats. If you were down here, I'd be happy to. But you're not. Get some human face time with people THAT ARE ON YOUR SIDE and don't have a financial stake in this. IOW...get off the computer and get on the dock!!! We will always be here to hep the best we can! But you gotta dedicate time to kick some tires and that will help narrow your search. And you will end up meeting numerous brokers along the way and you can find out who you would like to help you.

Chrisjs said:

I have been waiting on a real estate broker to schedule a showing since last weekend. No return calls, emails --- nada!!

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We would be more than happy to show you property if you were in our area

Putting " boots" on the deck is the only way to do it.

GG,

I have followed your posts from day one, and I think you have reached the point where you can hold your own in the buyers market, you have listened and learned an aweful lot over the past months, I personnely find your post very interesting because I feel your uncertainty, and you just don't want to be rushed and that's understandable.

Many people, like me, have also picked up some valuable tips from your journey, I too hope to buy my first boat soon, although I have to contend with a very small budget, I've searched the market for months, very often totally changing my mind as to what boat I would want to buy, all thanks to reading post here on TF.

I really think it's time for you to take the plunge, get out there girl and go do it, I would bet you will really enjoy getting your feet on board a few boats, use your newly aquired knowledge and get a buyers broker to back you up all the way.

All you need to do is trust your gut, have fun looking..it's supposed to be fun!!!, the technical stuff comes later and that's handled by an expert not you!!.

Robbie.

A Short Story - - > NY, NY, 1960s...

A well lubricated (often boozed up) person who with nothing better to do, decided to play a cold-call phone game of getting people to help over the phone to define the parameters of and also to locate a piece of property that would suit this person’s fantasized, grand needs. Hundreds of cold calls were made by this person in the comfort of a small apartment. A considerable number of helpful people called believed the cold-caller’s ruse and spent much time working over the phone, time and again, with the person in attempt to best answer the person’s questions and inquiries... sometimes items were repeated over and again! The cold-call person even got the helpers in touch with each other by phone so they could collectively work toward answers for all the questions the cold-caller would come up with. After several months, and ongoing stall by the cold-caller of any real-progress toward the objectives stated by the cold-caller, the helpful people began to contact each other simply to discuss why every time the cold-caller’s questions and inquiries got well answered that the cold-call person either could not perform the many helpful peoples’ suggestions... or... that the cold-call person would simply switch to a different area of the “property-find” ruse with new questions and new reasons why things suggested just didn’t seem to pan out for them, at all.

In reality, the helpful people had become fed up... and... were in agreement that the cold-caller should then Put Up – or – Shut Up!

So... one of the “helpful people” decided to actually find the cold-caller and ask face to face what was really going on that even after all the questions had been time and again answered correctly that the cold-caller never seemed to be successful and could never make even a little progress... much less accomplish any type of personal interview, personal property review or to close on any deal!

Well... when the true identity of the cold-caller was found out, by the helpful person having located the small apartment from which the cold-calls emanated, the truth was suddenly revealed! So, all the helpful people simply continued their fine lives being helpful to others... but not so prone to waste their time again... ya know, ta nip-it-in-the-bud if things just don’t smell right and items sounded off key with lack of results being way off color.

And, the originating cold-call person simply continued their life too... no matter how sadly that may have been.

Moral of the story: You can trust some people some of the time. Ya just can’t trust all people all the time!

Now, please do understand, I am a short story writer and a poet. This short story is one of my personal favorites from being in NY, during 1960’s. It of course has nothing to do with anyone, except the cold-caller mentioned in my short story... Just Sayen!

I still think the best bet is to get your own broker. Walk the docks and ask for recommendations. In our area I have one I would highly recommend and one I would advise people to steer clear off. I also have dealt with one in the Baltimore area who I would highly recommend. But ask around and then have some face time with a few.

Once you convince your broker that you are serious and have the means he/she will be able to convince sellers and their brokers to deal with you. In addition sometimes there are things a selling broker will pass on to a buying broker that they would not mention to a prospective buyer, something like professional courtesy.

Even with your own broker you can still continue to look, but then pass the info on to your broker and let him take care of making the contact.

Bob

BobH said:

I still think the best bet is to get your own broker. Walk the docks and ask for recommendations. In our area I have one I would highly recommend and one I would advise people to steer clear off. I also have dealt with one in the Baltimore area who I would highly recommend. But ask around and then have some face time with a few.

Once you convince your broker that you are serious and have the means he/she will be able to convince sellers and their brokers to deal with you. In addition sometimes there are things a selling broker will pass on to a buying broker that they would not mention to a prospective buyer, something like professional courtesy.

Even with your own broker you can still continue to look, but then pass the info on to your broker and let him take care of making the contact.

Bob

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I concur wholeheartedly. A buyer's broker that you have an established relationship with can open doors for you far beyond your local market. Most brokers have a huge jurisdiction, meaning that they can share the commission on vessels across North America; once they have a good handle on your requirements, they can talk on equal terms with brokers everywhere.

Having entered this conversation at a late date, I'm not sure how many vessels you have looked at, although the sense is that you haven't looked at a lot but have your requirements more or less in place. If you have not looked at a number of vessels, I would strongly recommend that you do. EVERY vessel will teach you something, whether it is something you hadn't thought of that would be good, or something that is to be avoided. The devil is in the details, which only first hand observation will illuminate.

The quest is always stressful, but should also be enjoyed.

Get a good buyer's broker; you won't regret it.

Call Tucker Fallon if you are in the SE. He is a straight shooter. He will not waste your time. In mid atlantic try Chuck Grice at 757 287 6344 at Virgina Yacht and Walczak in Annapolis. These are professional broker who care about their reps. They do not want to waste your time or theirs .

Baker said:

We have done it through trial and error and through numerous boat purchases and sales. And most likely, we ain't finished yet....right Walt???

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Right! I, however, bailed on this particular subject (member) a long time ago.

Phil Fill said:

Even if you are going to pay cash, I would advise you to get preapproved finance and/or insurance as both are a great resource of information and they will make sure buying the boat goes smoothly and correctly. Maybe have your personal bank give them a call. I have/had my attorney and/or personal bankers make calls.

I agree lying is not the best most times, but some times to over come obstacles? In small/many ways we all do! Saying you are Mike is going to be harder to explain than not having a boat? Can you look and sound like a Mike?

Like it or not, there are three factors against you; a newbie, want a be live aboard with young children and female .

Being you have not formal actual knowledge and experience trying qualify and buy a boat that size and value, is a big factor against you. Talk the talk, and walk the walk.

I would not mention want to be a live aboard and with young children. For some reason getting finance and/or insurance is harder and more expensive than non live aboard. Live aboard moorage is very limited, less than 5%, and the broker will also factor that in.

Weather we like it or not there is still preconceived notion. I know that first hand as people in general behave differently if they perceive female or a male. My wife gets upset some times as to the service she receives vs. I receive in my male mode. We/I usually search out females as they usually have had to earn/work for their position/job, tend to listing and be open minded.

I still do not take you serious as I been in you place and done that. Don’t get me wrong, I am all for you, willing to spend the time, but the odds are stacked against you.

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It wouldn't matter about Mike. Mike can set up the showing and I get to view the boat. I highly doubt that the owner will refuse cash because the buyer isn't Mike.

You don't take me serious, as, you don't really think that I am going to buy a boat. I would expect that from others, but it surprises me coming from you, Phil.

Re retaining your own buyers broker.
Get one you pay to work for you, not one working under that strange (to me) arrangement of only being paid by the selling broker when a sale gets up. Putting some $ up front should be convincing all round and get you going.
I`m amazed you need to do anything like this at all, something is not right.

BruceK said:

Re retaining your own buyers broker.
Get one you pay to work for you, not one working under that strange (to me) arrangement of only being paid by the selling broker when a sale gets up. Putting some $ up front should be convincing all round and get you going.
I`m amazed you need to do anything like this at all, something is not right.

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Evidently she is good at some things but not all.