U.S. Documentation

Have any of you Willard 30 owners documented your vessel.** I would like to start fresh and not deal with state stuff.* I am hoping if one hull has gone thru admeasurement, that that info can be used on all hulls of that design.* Any info would be useful.* And I would also like to avoid going thru a service, which would cost roughly 3 times as much.

Capt Dan

Sorry,* I should give out some more info in case someone reads this and wants to contact me directly.
Dan Pease********* email is:* capt.revere@gmail.com

Hi Dan -- My first Willard was documented, and I think it was listed as 7 GT (5 is the minimum for documenting a vessel.)*

You can do it yourself by following the instructions at the National vessel Documentation Center website: http://www.uscg.mil/hq/cg5/nvdc/

You can use the "Simplified Measurement" form which calculates tonnage from the overall Length, Breadth, and Depth (Depth is from the main weather deck to the keel -- not the same as draft.)* The form is available online too.*

You also need to prove to them that the vessel was US built.* When I brought my Willard into the country from Canada, I also had to prove US build, and they accepted the Owner's Manual, that had the Costa Mesa Address on it as proof.

As for dealing with state stuff, I'm not sure where you are, but here in Washington, the boat still has to be registered with the state as well.* The only difference is you don't have to install the state numbers on the bow if it's documented.



-- Edited by Sunshine Rick on Thursday 8th of October 2009 01:56:50 PM

Thanks for that info.* The process is started.

Odd that you have to register twice.* Here in Maine not so, but we still need to pay excise tax annually. They get you one way or another.

What year is your W-30?* Mine is 74.* Doing lots of work right now to get ready for next season.

Dan

A vessel does not have to have been manufactured in the US in order to document it. Most Grand Banks owners document their vessels, and GBs were all made in Kowloon (Hong Kong) (woodies) and Singapore (fiberglass). Our GB has been documented by all its previous owners and we have it documented as well.

Oh yeah, right you are!** Sorry, I was thinking of passenger for hire vessels -- they must be US built, or else have an exemption.* Thanks for the correction. . .

<h3>"<a>WHAT VESSELS MAY BE DOCUMENTED?</a></h3>
"A vessel must measure at least five net tons and, with the exception of certain oil spill response vessels, must be wholly owned by a citizen of the U.S." (emphasis added)

*

It's important to keep in mind that documenting a vessel does not necessarily exempt one from having to pay your state's annual registration fees. Washington is such a state. Being documented means you don't have to (actually you're not supposed to) display your Washington state registration number on the boat. However you still have to register the boat with the state, pay the annual registration fee, and display the annual registration sticker.

The federal government could care less about our Washington State registration, but not displaying a current registration sticker on the boat can net one a violation and fine from the state. We had a note on our boat one day that was a warning from the Whatcom County Sheriff's office citing us for not displaying our annual sticker. Actually the stickers were on the window next to the main cabin door and the same window opposite but the windows of our boat have covers on them when the boat's in the slip. So we now put the stickers on the lower sides of the flying bridge.



-- Edited by Marin on Saturday 9th of October 2010 03:08:34 PM

Hey All,
What's to be gained from documentation?

nomadwilly wrote:

Hey All,

What's to be gained from documentation?

Click to expand...

Don't need all those silly numbers on the bow, and it is a good excuse for*painting on the boat's name (hint).* The cost is one time, and in California, annual registration fees/routines are avoided.* It may give some owners the feeling they have a "real" boat and not a "toy."

Chapman says the advantages*are it gives additional security to the purchaser or mortgagee, facilitating financing and transfer of title, and that it gives legal authority to fly the yacht ensign.* Couldn't give a hoot for those advantages.



-- Edited by markpierce on Monday 11th of October 2010 05:57:04 PM

I agree,* no numbers on the hull,* but in Maine, still need to pay the state excise tax and have an "excise tax sticker".

I don't happen to think that a state has the right to require stae registration in addition to the federal documentation,* but someone said in this thread that Washington does anyway.

Dan Pease

It all seems like fly stuff to me. The way I arranged them on my bow I find quite pleasing...see pic. As to this "feeling" of having a "real" boat instead of a "toy" is 100% dumb ego stuff to me. Baugh humbug! In Alaska they say you need to put the numbers on the bow in the traditional way but in Washington they say "on the fwd end of the boat". So some people put them on the cabin sides ect. If I was the only one required to have the numbers the'd stick out like the thumb but they blend in fairly well since everybody has them * * ...
almost don't notice them. Don't want them on my canoe though.

nomadwilly wrote:


What's to be gained from documentation?

Click to expand...

Not a lot for a recreational boat*unless you intend to cruise to other countries (other than Canada).* Some countries will require*that you have* and show it.

Documentation can also be an advantage in buying or selling a boat as it's easier to trace the financial activity associated with a boat like title search, making sure there are no liens against the boat, etc.**

I don't know that it makes a signficant difference if you're boarded for a "routine" safety inspection by the USCG although the couple of times we've had this happen the boarding party seemed pleased the boat was documented-- they didn't care about the Washington registration.*

When we cleared customs back into the US the other week the customs agent was far more interested to know*if we were documented and in seeing the documentation than he was in our Washington registration.* When I accidentally gave him our radio station license with our registration instead of our documentation paper he said, referring to the state document, "That will do," but when I went back to the boat and got the documentation he said, "Perfect.* Much better."* I have no idea why he preferred the documentation over the state registation.* But a zilliion un-documented boats re-enter the US at our POEs here so it's obviously not a disadvantage not to have documentation.

If your boat is stolen having it documented can make it easier to get back once it's found (if it is found).

*

Capt Dan wrote:
I don't happen to think that a state has the right to require stae registration in addition to the federal documentation,* but someone said in this thread that Washington does anyway.

Click to expand...

It's no different than living in a state that has a state income tax.* You still have to pay your federal income tax, and the fact that you pay your federal income tax does not mean that you don't have to pay your state income tax.

When you buy a gallon of*gas at the pump you are paying a federal fuel tax and (usually) a state fuel tax.

I'm not defending the notion of*a state charging an annual tax/fee for owning a boat in that state, but I don't see that they don't have a right to do it.

*

Marin wrote:

I'm not defending the notion of*a state charging an annual tax/fee for owning a boat in that state, but I don't see that they don't have a right to do it.

Click to expand...

It's the state's annual personal property tax on boats*that's a burden, not the annual registration fee itself.* In CA*the*PPT*is one percent of the boat's value.

*

I don't think we have a PPT on boats here. All we pay each year is the registration fee. The registration sheet we get back is exactly like the ones in our vehicles. Like a car, our two boats' registration fees are based on a sliding scale related to the boat's value and they decreases a little bit each year until they hit whatever the floor is for this fee.

-- Edited by Marin on Tuesday 12th of October 2010 02:24:31 PM

If the "Registration Fee" is different for different value boats then I call it a tax.

In Maine there is a registration fee* (for undocumented) and an exise tax,* based on value.

I guess there is no free lunch.

Dan

Mark,

Do tell about this Seahorse Marine Coot* under construction.

Dan Pease

Good lord Mark,If I had a $100K boat in Cal I'd have to pay the state $1000. a year for the privilege of owning that boat! They tax like this and they are BROKE! * ???

Eric, the PPT is a much smaller bite than the 9.25 to 9.75 percent California user tax (same as a sales tax except it is paid directly by the purchaser*to the state rather than via seller.)

The California state government is spendthrift because most California voters think it is a free ride, and for*too many it is.* If it wasn't for illegal immigration, the state's population would be declining.

Hey Eric,

In Alaska do they pay you to have a boat?

I guess I won't be moving to California!

Dan

Dan,No but they pay me to live here. We pay almost no taxes at all. And moorage for Willy is about $600 a year. We spend more on clothing, transportation and food. Gasoline is $3.75 a gallon at the cheapest place. The weather's rough, the land is rough and we are all a bit rough too. Things and people don't last as long up here on average. As I type the wind roars over the house at at least 55 knots * *..almost scary at times. I have a flashlight right by my left hand. We're experiencing the GALE TRAIN now * *...one after another w a day or 2 of nice breezy rain inbetween.
I need to talk to you about removing the rudder. Will call tomorrow.

Capt Dan wrote:
In Alaska do they pay you to have a boat?

I guess I won't be moving to California!

Click to expand...

The majority of my slightly over six-digit-income*is for taxes.* Please come to California to share*the burden!

*

Capt Dan wrote:

Mark,

Do tell about this Seahorse Marine Coot* under construction.

Dan Pease

Click to expand...

I'll send you a PM.

*