When Are the Seas Just Too Rough?

The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
The only real potentially hazardous condition we encountered was fog. The run from the middle of the Oregon coast all the way down to San Francisco was done mostly in fog. You really want to have a good radar unit and know how to use it. Most of the time we had less than an eight of a mile visibility. If you are planning on doing any overnight runs, you gotta have radar anyway. We did have a sailboat slip inside our half mile ring undetected (some of them make poor targets), and a whale sleeping on the surface that wouldn’t get out of our way, so even with radar you still have to maintain a good watch.

The several times I've boated along the northern California, Oregon, and Washington coasts (admittedly on 900+ foot-long "boats"), the seas were usually flatter under foggy conditions compared to clear weather. Is this a valid observation?
 
......................We did have a sailboat slip inside our half mile ring undetected (some of them make poor targets), and a whale sleeping on the surface that wouldn’t get out of our way, so even with radar you still have to maintain a good watch.......................


I almost only single handle, and i must admit that now and then i sleep. Mid ocean sometimes for hours. I don't have a radar nor ais.

Pls. don't hit me ;-)
Cees
 
Mark,

That's been my observation at least 80% of the time as well.
 
I almost only single handle, and i must admit that now and then i sleep. Mid ocean sometimes for hours. I don't have a radar nor ais.

Pls. don't hit me ;-)
Cees

I had a senior member tell me that he slept 20 minutes at a time. If you wake up and can't see anything you have 20 minutes before you could hit anything.
 
Tell us about running at night. I can see how you might to start imagining seeing things, or miss seeing that whale. We do have a 48 mile open array radar with a color display and it is pretty good about picking out the small stuff. One comment I have heard is that in the open Pacific (or any ocean), the loneliest you will ever feel will be a 3am on a moonless night in a pitching sea. Valid?



Actually, running the boat at night isn’t that bad. Assuming you’ve been travelling all day and into the evening, you already know what the sea conditions are. Unless there is a front moving in overnight you would most likely (not necessarily though) encounter the same conditions that night. If conditions were marginal during the day, you should already be in port by dark.

As evening sets in, you should already have your radar on (if there is fog you will have your radar on all the time) and your eyes should be getting accustomed to the fading light. By nightfall you should be comfortable with your surroundings, as even on a moonless night it seems that you can still make out the water immediately around you. It does seem that the seas lay down flatter in fog, which kinda compensates for not being able to see much of anything.

We stood four hour watches and the off watch person would sleep on the couch in the main cabin with our clothes on so if needed we could be up on the bridge pretty quickly. We did all our driving from the flybridge so if we needed to call the off watch person we would sound a loud buzzer down below. Fortunately, we never had to do that.

It is important that the off watch person gets as much sleep as possible because it does get tiring standing watch in the wee hours.

On my watch I always had some good music to listen to. The other crew person had a book on CD he listened to. I don’t know about the lonely thing at 3am, but you sure do get an opportunity for some major introspection.
I set the alarms on the autopilot, depth sounder, and radar and had the VHF scanning 16, 13, 68, and WX alert (we had another radio on NOAA all the time). I would then drape all the instruments except the radar screen. I was able to maintain my night vision better that way. I would check our position on the plotter occasionally, but I focused mainly on the radar screen.

I have to admit that sometimes I did find myself doing the head-bob thing and sometimes it was a struggle not to doze off. Usually I would get up and walk around the bridge for a while and maybe even drop down to the open sundeck for a minute. I was still able to keep a look out while doing this and I found that I was somewhat refreshed when I sat back down in the chair. I don’t recall being so tired that at any time I felt I was jeopardizing our safety. If I did I would have called the other crew up and gone to a two hour watch (like a dog-watch) which we had agreed we would do before doing the night run. If you have more than a two person crew, things become much easier.

As I said though, overall it wasn’t that bad. However, you really do have to trust your radar. It’s probably ok to sleep for a couple of hours when you are pretty far out on the ocean, but we were in an area where there were fishing boats out all night and larger vessels transiting the shipping lanes. AIS can help you with the big boys, but most of the smaller vessels are not equipped with transponders.

Fortunately, the sleeping whale encounter was during the day. I tooted the horn several times but he didn’t move until after I went around him, then he just quietly sounded. I doubt I would have seen him or had enough time to avoid him if it had been at night.

If you have lots of time though, you really don’t need to think about doing night runs, just go port to port on day runs. We did them simply because we wanted to take advantage of the favorable conditions which stayed pretty good for about a week after we reached LA. After that a major system moved down from the Gulf of Alaska and basically shut down the whole west coast for a while. It’s all a matter of timing (and a healthy dose of good luck).

On the nights that were clear it seemed like there were a million stars out and the air was clean and fresh. However, it did feel great to see those first hints of daylight coming up over the coastal range.

I’m sure other folks out there have different methods for doing night runs that work better than ours and different experiences. Perhaps they will share them also.

I’ve included some pics just to give you an idea of the conditions we encountered.

Fair Winds. KJ
 

Attachments

  • SMOOTH RUNNING.jpg
    SMOOTH RUNNING.jpg
    67 KB · Views: 91
  • TATOOSH ISLAND.jpg
    TATOOSH ISLAND.jpg
    38 KB · Views: 88
  • NEWPORT OREGON.jpg
    NEWPORT OREGON.jpg
    140.7 KB · Views: 73
  • SUNSET OFF DESTRUCTION ISLAND WA.jpg
    SUNSET OFF DESTRUCTION ISLAND WA.jpg
    85.4 KB · Views: 89
  • WHALE.jpg
    WHALE.jpg
    76.1 KB · Views: 94
I'm loving this thread!

You guys make me want to head out the Golden Gate and keep on going. Great posts!
 
I would liket o add one thing to KJ's detailed, comprehensive post.

You MUST prcatice with the radar during the day in good visibilty, so you can start to understand what it is really telling you. I run my radar whenoever under power. Today, i noticed it "lost" a target I had acquired, even though the tug and barge were as close as ever.

Also in the last few weeks, becuase I have it on all the time, I have noticed that when i acquire a target, if another target crosses its path, ti may switch. Even to the point of changing from a moving boat to a stationary buoy.

You must practice with radar to be able to safely use it when you need to.

Richard
 
You guys make me want to head out the Golden Gate and keep on going. Great posts!
You & your boat are more than qualified. Stick your nose out beyond the G.G. Bridge and see how much bigger the water feels. The euphoria you experience when coming back into SF Bay is beyond description.
 
I looked out over the Pacific Ocean to see just how big it was. You know, it wasn't as big as I thought it was. It didn't look any bigger than the Atlantic!:D
 
I looked out over the Pacific Ocean to see just how big it was. You know, it wasn't as big as I thought it was. It didn't look any bigger than the Atlantic!:D
Well, it is! Our sea level in the Western Pacific is higher than the Atlantic, too! :flowers:
 
Well, it is! Our sea level in the Western Pacific is higher than the Atlantic, too! :flowers:

Oh yeah, well I've seen it with my own 20/20s, and it looks no bigger than the Atlantic. You just can't beat a real eye witness that has seen them both. I'll stand on that!
 
I had a senior member tell me that he slept 20 minutes at a time. If you wake up and can't see anything you have 20 minutes before you could hit anything.

That's also my rule. I try to sleep during day light, then i am more vissible for others. But every single handler lies if he say he never sleep for a few hours, even the "great" guys from this year Vendee Globe Race told that now and then they sleep for more hours at ones. You can't ignore your body.

Cees
 
You just can't beat a real eye witness that has seen them both. I'll stand on that!
Oh! You are the only one who has sailed both the Atlantic and the pacific? Well let me fill you in on something, Buster! I, too, have sailed the Atlantic (Enterprise) and the Pacific (My own boat) Throw in the Caribbean, the Gulf of California, Alaska etc. and all before I was 50! :blush:
 
Last edited:
Moonstruck, I hope you're not going to take that sitting down.

:popcorn:

(LOL...you guys are killing me!!)
 
We need to spend more time in the SF Bay! San Pablo Bay doesn't count (anymore).

SF Bay, looking southwestward, toward past the Gate:

img_157406_0_ba48b15e48954f061eaaff09057bfa5b.jpg


SP Bay looking south-westward, betwixt the refineries:

img_157406_1_ef2140f3217c009e3a9f9e661c362cff.jpg
 
Last edited:
KJ, I have to tell you, once again you outdid yourself. And I can only hope we get calm seas like in your pictures, at least some of the time.

We fortunately do have a three man crew so we can break up the watches at night into smaller segments. Another thing working in our favor is the radar. Most of my boats have had dome style 18 - 24 mile radars, but I also had a 3988 Bayliner with the same 48 mile open array radar as this 57. The difference clarity and target definition with open array is amazing. I remember picking up a seagull sitting on a log at 1/8 mile one time. Just sitting here in the marina I can track small boats on Lake Union. Once the AIS is installed, the MARPA feature will probably be relegated to non-AIS equipped fishing and pleasure boats.

Thanks to all of you guys for your valuable input. Consider us sponges and very appreciative.
 
We need to spend more time in the SF Bay!

Al, Mark, Ray, Craig, PG and others:

To even consider spending more time in SF Bay, without having to do a long cruise, speaks to the great cruising ground you guys have up there. To cruise salt water in surroundings such as SF Bay and then rinse the cooling system with fresh water ((Without pulling the boat out or going through a lock) is pretty damn neat! Not to mention covered slips and rates that are ridiculous when compared to San Diego. I'm envious! ( But not enough to leave S.D.)

Returning Home
 

Attachments

  • IMAG1221.jpg
    IMAG1221.jpg
    127.5 KB · Views: 99
Haven't read much of this thread but I have a comment.

The seas are too rough when you can't see them any more due to wind blown flying spray.

The worst sea conditions I've ever seen were in Dixon Entrance w wind driven breaking seas about 2 story house size AND ....

Up Lynn Canal. In the winter the "Big Lynn" is hit by awful northerlies that make incredible "sea smoke". Can't even see the water for all the white spray as not seen from the ferry deck. The first time I saw that it was an OMG moment.

But re the thread from my experience the seas are too rough when ther'e too rough. By that I mean that there seems to be a well defined point where there is no doubt about it ..... I'm gett'in ou'ta here! All the "let's see how it goes" thoughts are gone when you reach that point.
 
As one of the crew on Following Seas when we take this journey I appreciate all the input and insight you have shared. This will be my first trip onto the Pacific and, while it will be a learning experience for me, I'm a bit apprehensive as well as eager to be out there.

As the "keeper of the blog" for this little boat trip I'm going to be posting lots of notes and photos of our journey.

GFC
 
GFC I look forward to following your adventure on the blog.
 
GFC and StuartT, did you guys know each other before TF or did you meet here?

Sounds like a great trip. I'll follow the your Following Seas Journey bLog.
 
We actually 'met' on IBoatNW. Stuart put up a thread there and BOC asking for info for a captain he could hire to make the trip with him. Someone suggested he find a couple of regular guys with a fair amount of boating experience to make the trip with him, and he decided to do that. So that's how he and I got together.

By way of a confession my 'blog' won't be a traditional blog as most of you are familiar with. I don't know how to set one of those up so I'm just going to be making my notes in MS Word and pasting them into a thread on here and a couple of other boating sites I frequent. I'll probably start those threads just before we take off on the trip. I've done that in the past and, based on the comments from others on those threads, I've have had a pretty good following.

Stuart is going to have an AIS on board so people following our trip can track our progress. Between the AIS tracking and the stories and photos I suspect we'll have quite a large 'crew' on board. The more the merrier.
 
You won't be able to follow them all the way with marinetraffic.com. They will probably disappear around Cape Flattery and show up again just south of Fort Bragg. If they pull into Newport, it will work for a while, but even Eureka wiil probably not pick them up.

Also, try vesselfinder.com. It works better than marinetraffic.com much of the time, but not always.
 
Oh! You are the only one who has sailed both the Atlantic and the pacific? Well let me fill you in on something, Buster! I, too, have sailed the Atlantic (Enterprise) and the Pacific (My own boat) Throw in the Caribbean, the Gulf of California, Alaska etc. and all before I was 50! :blush:

OK there buddy, if the Pacific is bigger, explain to me why you can't see any farther on the Pacific than you can on the Atlantic. It's just all west coast hype.
 
OK there buddy, if the Pacific is bigger, explain to me why you can't see any farther on the Pacific than you can on the Atlantic.
Oh, but you can see farther on the Pacific than you can on the Atlantic! I pulled this from a NASA paper on this very subject and here is what they concluded:

Obviously, the sun does not set in the east (Atlantic) so it is not possible to see as far.:dance:
 

Attachments

  • Setting Sun.jpg
    Setting Sun.jpg
    11.8 KB · Views: 105
Last edited:
Oh, but you can

Obviously, the sun does not set in the east (Atlantic) so it is not possible to see as far.:dance:

OK you're right, but we get the sun when it's fresh and new for the day. By the time it gets to the west coast it is spent, and needs recharging.
 
Who says the sun doesn't set over the Atlantic? Certainly not the Portugese or, dare I say, even the French!
 
Who says the sun doesn't set over the Atlantic? Certainly not the Portugese or, dare I say, even the French!

You stay out of this, Flywright. I've got enough to deal with here without another screwed up thinking left coaster entering into it. Portugal and
France don't even fit in the discussion. I don't think there is a question to match Seahorse II's answer. You guys just won't listen to sound reasoning.:banghead:
 
Back
Top Bottom