Ugly Boats?

"That GB36 would look much better without the flybridge."

IMHO no it doesn't

You know, there are 2 production boats that I must confess, I find rather lacking in the "pleasing to the eye" department. I am sure they appeal to some people and I am sure they have various wonderful attributes and they are most likely better than staying home and mowing the yard. However, dollar for dollar, I think there other boats I would buy prior to these 2 models...




And....

Bet those boats are pleasing to most boaters based on the boats I've seen. But as usual, I'm in the minority.

I'm surprised this one hasn't been presented....

No pictures but I remember one boat I used to see 25 or more years ago in my area called the SNOOP. T'was a steel hulled boat about 45' that looked like a tiny freighter with the long, clear fordeck, a deck crane and a wheelhouse near the stern. Now that I think of it maybe like a smaller North Sea type design. Certainly was not the typical good looking boat of the day but she sure was attractive nonetheless and kept well.

Andy G said:

Marin;The GB36 would look better without the flying bridge, with a shorter and lower house that was set farther aft, a longer forecabin,

Click to expand...

That's an interesting concept. Here's how it worked out.

Hmmm.... Not much of an improvement is it. Getting rid of the mast will help. It doesn't go with the boat anymore. And now the aft cabin is too short so the boat looks truncated. Perhaps moving the rear bulkhead of the main cabin forward to the front of the large main cabin aft window so the aft cabin is longer will help. That wouldn't work in reality though because the engine room takes up all the space below the main cabin.

Of course once one starts shortening the main cabin they might as well go all the way and make a pilothouse boat out of it with a low aft cabin. Don't know where the engines would go but it might look really nice. Sort of a rumrunner look.

The pink paint job doesn't help either.

Very impressive piece of Photoshop work, though.

Attempting to have two bedrooms in a 36-foot boat causes a lot (too much in my opinion) of compromise. The 34-foot-LRC-Californian does a pretty good job with two bedrooms forward if sleeping in a closet/Pullman berth is OK with you.

Sleep two; entertain six: that's my preference for a mid-30-foot boat. And while the Coot can sleep three in the saloon (one settee turns into a double), having five souls aboard for 24/7 is too much to contemplate.

healhustler said:

That's an interesting concept. Here's how it worked out.

Click to expand...

I must say it looks better than I thought it would.

I do agree with Mark that two sleeping cabins are rough on a mid thirties boat. The proportions always seem tight until after 40'.

markpierce;
Sleep two; entertain six: that's my preference for a mid-30-foot boat. And while the Coot can sleep three in the saloon (one settee turns into a double), having five souls aboard for 24/7 is too much to contemplate.


Well, it all depends on what you bought the boat for. This is our second 'trawler' style boat over 15 years, the first a CHB 34' & now the 36' IG. Both are the aft cabin design, the IG actually manages to get 3 sleeping cabins in the layout, with two bathrooms.The only thing I might change, now the kids are older, on our layout is perhaps move the galley down to where the twin bunk room is, this would open up the main cabin a bit more, then I think she would be perfect.

Over the years we have had so many kids & adults play and stay on board I have lost count,plus a few brain cells along the way.With our style of boating the aft cabin two bathroom set up is terrific. The climate helps, most of our boating time and meals takes place outside.

I agree though, if it is just a couple using the boat the extra cabins are probably unnecessary, however an aft cabin sleeping arrangement is far superior to a forward cabin set up IMHO.

I have to disagree on 2 staterooms in mid-30's. The Monk 36 pulls this off really well, though the forward cabin is not exactly palatial and yet it still also has a huge hanging locker and full head. I know I am probably biased having owned ours for 3 years until just now but I remain convinced it is one of the best laid out boats for a mid 30's size trawler.

Marin said:

Getting rid of the mast will help. It doesn't go with the boat anymore. And now the aft cabin is too short so the boat looks truncated. Perhaps moving the rear bulkhead of the main cabin forward to the front of the large main cabin aft window so the aft cabin is longer will help. That wouldn't work in reality though because the engine room takes up all the space below the main cabin.

Click to expand...

Trying to imagine what is happening to the interior is something difficult to stay on top of. Then, as you noted, things like masts don't work. Still, the traditional style probably wouldn't support an Eastbay type of accent, so here is the shortened cabin, still wearing a vertical mast. (Took a bit of the pink out too.)

Andy G said:

I agree though, if it is just a couple using the boat the extra cabins are probably unnecessary, however an aft cabin sleeping arrangement is far superior to a forward cabin set up IMHO.

Click to expand...

(If the boat also has a cockpit.)

Marin said:

And now the aft cabin is too short so the boat looks truncated.

The pink paint job doesn't help either.

Very impressive piece of Photoshop work, though.

Click to expand...

Marin it's a trunk cabin. Looks rather sweet in pink.

Heal-now, if that thing had forward slanted pilothouse windows, it would a damn fine looking boat!

Woodsong said:

I have to disagree on 2 staterooms in mid-30's. The Monk 36 pulls this off really well, though the forward cabin is not exactly palatial and yet it still also has a huge hanging locker and full head. I know I am probably biased having owned ours for 3 years until just now but I remain convinced it is one of the best laid out boats for a mid 30's size trawler.

Click to expand...

I think you've hit on the key difference...the aft cabin. If you have a mid-30s with a usable fishing cockpit and 2 staterooms, you're stuck with smaller sleeping quarters fwd. If you've got an aft cabin (or trunk), you sacrifice the fishable cockpit, but get roomier staterooms.

Here is a typical 34 Californian layout:



There are boats like the IG32 that provide a roomy stateroom fwd, split head/shower and a fishable cockpit, but lack the extra storage available with a 2nd stateroom. (see attached image)

IMHO, all boats this size are just a floating collection of compromises. You pick your preferences based upon your intended use.

PS. I don't believe either of these 2 boats deserve to be discussed on an Ugly Boats thread. Apologies to IG32 and 34 Californian owners everywhere.

Marin said:

Hmmm.... Not much of an improvement is it. Getting rid of the mast will help. It doesn't go with the boat anymore. And now the aft cabin is too short so the boat looks truncated. Perhaps moving the rear bulkhead of the main cabin forward to the front of the large main cabin aft window so the aft cabin is longer will help. That wouldn't work in reality though because the engine room takes up all the space below the main cabin.

Of course once one starts shortening the main cabin they might as well go all the way and make a pilothouse boat out of it with a low aft cabin. Don't know where the engines would go but it might look really nice. Sort of a rumrunner look.

The pink paint job doesn't help either.

Very impressive piece of Photoshop work, though.

Click to expand...

Marin, all it needs is some forward slanting wannabe pilothouse windows and....tuh duh....done deal. HH??? Could you oblige us that???

markpierce said:

Attempting to have two bedrooms in a 36-foot boat causes a lot (too much in my opinion) of compromise.

Click to expand...

Well, it works great on a GB36 Classic. Forward V-berth has two berths that are just about seven feet long, a head, and on the post-1988 boats (when they made new, slightly larger molds for the 36 and 42), a shower. Two stowage drawers under each berth with a bigger stowage compartment under them. And a good size hanging closet. All the guests we've had on board have loved the forward stateroom even though on our pre-88 boat the head is compartment is considerably smaller than on the later boats.

The aft cabin of our boat has a head, shower, a full queen-size berth, 9 big stowage drawers, shelves, plus a very large hanging closet with more stowage space on top of it. The queen berth is a relatively rare configuration on a GB36. The more common arrangement is a double berth to starboard and a single berth to port with big drawers under both.

In addition, the salon table and L-settee in the main cabin can be converted to a double berth.

The great thing about this configuration is that the people in the fore and aft cabins are completely independent of each other, with their own closets, drawers, and head compartment. So someone can get up, go up into the main cabin, make coffee, read, go for a walk, whatever, without disturbing the people in the other cabin.

It's a terrific use of space in a boat that doesn't look like a box, and was one of the deciding factors, after chartering one, that led us to select the GB36 for our own boat. The 42 takes all these features and makes them more spacious.

Were we to change boats it would be a real toss-up between another tri-cabin and a Europa. The Europa offers the covered side and aft decks which in the this climate are a real benefit. But, at least in the smaller sizes, you only have the forward stateroom. Guests have to sleep in the main cabin and that's a hassle to make up and stow the berth, plus everyone has to use the one head, and so on. For just two people the Europa is great.

When you get into a boat like the GB46 Europa or a Fleming 55 you can have two or three staterooms up forward so nobody has to sleep in the main cabin. Some models of the GB42 Europa also have two forward staterooms, so the need to put people in the main cabin goes away.

After taking longer (2 and 3 week) cruises with guests from Europe or here on board, were we in the position of having to select another 35 to 42 foot boat, we would most likely stay with the tri-cabin configuration instead of the Euorpa or pilothouse configuration simply because having two decent size and very liveable staterooms separated by a large main cabin makes life on board so much easier for both couples.

healhustler said:

....here is the shortened cabin, still wearing a vertical mast. (Took a bit of the pink out too.)

Click to expand...

That actually looks very nice, I think. Not particularly unique; I think uniqueness is always a nice thing to have in a boat design, something that makes it a bit different from all the cookie-cutter boats out there. But the proportions, particularly the vertical proportions, are a whole lot better in your design than in the production GB36.

Having lived with a GB36 for almost 15 years now, I can see that this improved exterior design does pose some interior problems. The lower main cabin, while looking much better than the production cabin, will require the cabin sole to be even lower than it is now if the same full headroom is to be retained. And as Mark noted in another thread, a GB's cabin sole is already significantly lower than the deck, which is why the cabin door is not full height and is why Mark keeps hitting his head on Ray's boat. That situation will get even worse on this new design.

But the bigger issue with the lower sole will be the engine room. As we will never own a single engine boat, your design will have to accommodate two engines. As it is now, the engine mounts on our two FL120s are one size too small (per the factory) because using mounts rated for the FL120s weight would not allow the header tank to clear the underside of the very heavily constructed cabin sole. According to our friends at Northern Lights/Lugger, using the one-size smaller mounts in this case is not an issue. They might wear out a bit sooner, but when we bought our boat it still had its original mounts which then were 25 years old. And with more weight on them than they're rated for, vibration will actually be reduced a wee bit according to the NL engineers.

Although the original mounts were getting tired when we bought the boat in 1998, we got another six or seven years out of them before we got metal to metal contact and they had to be changed. So a 30-year life on engine mounts is acceptable to us.

But nobody says you'd have to use FL120s in your re-designed GB36. They're heavy, outdated, inefficient, polluting engines anyway, so this would be an opportunity to go with something smaller, lighter, cleaner, and much more powerful so the boat could be driven at speeds of 12 to 14 knots. As your design represents a considerable weight reduction, a pair of 200 to 300 hp engines could probably really make the boat get up and go. So it's conceivable that the lowered cabin sole would still allow enough height in the engine room to accommodate a pair of modern diesels.

Or maybe the design would accommodate a pair of pod drives which would be really cool.

Anyway, it's an interesting exercise and illustrates, to me anyway, some of the things designers have to consider in creating a workable production boat design. It's obviously not as simple as drawing a really nice-looking boat and calling it good.

Thanks for taking the time to rework the GB36 per my complaints about the stock design. It's been very interesting to see how it would look and your Photoshop skills make the reworked boat look real. Very impressive skill you've got there.

I may put your photo on the GB owners list and see what people there think.

My next ugly boat. Granted, Carvers aren't the prettiest boats out there....but I think this one is the least ugly of the bunch....Engine survey is under way as I type. Twin Cummins 370B...so she should make some time. My objective was interior space with a good turn of speed in the mid 35ft range...and of course a budget of $100k..ish. Believe it or not, there just aren't that many boats that fit that criteria that aren't express style cruisers(ie no flybridge).

Has all of the same features Marin states above. I am not a huge fan of the ACMY style but I have never owned one so here we go. The rationalization to get through that was the VERY nice molded in stairway(with handrail the whole way) from aft deck to VERY large swim platform. 35 LOD....41 LOA....and most of that 6ft is swim platform. A heckuvalotta boat for 35ft!!! Huge in fact!!!

Wish me luck.
(sistership photo)

John I had a buddy with a 35 Carver like that. We did a full Thanksgiving dinner on it while anchored on Lake Chickamauga. A very comfortable boat. I just got a little light headed being up on a flybridge. The air sure is thin up there.

Marin said:

...

Having lived with a GB36 for almost 15 years now, I can see that this improved exterior design does pose some interior problems. The lower main cabin, while looking much better than the production cabin, will require the cabin sole to be even lower than it is now if the same full headroom is to be retained. And as Mark noted in another thread, a GB's cabin sole is already significantly lower than the deck, which is why the cabin door is not full height and is why Mark keeps hitting his head on Ray's boat. That situation will get even worse on this new design.

But the bigger issue with the lower sole will be the engine room. As we will never own a single engine boat, your design will have to accommodate two engines. ...

Click to expand...

With a single engine placed under the Coot's pilothouse, the pilothouse floor is even with the deck and the saloon and stateroom floors are below the waterline. This plus the absence of a flying bridge results in a low profile, excluding the optional mast.

John your interior volume will be similar to Pineapple Girl's PT 35. I never considered sundeck styles because of our active boys but wowzers do those things have space! They pack a small condo into those things.

How fast will that Carver run?

Don it's hard to believe a Tennessean would have altitude issues

healhustler said:

Trying to imagine what is happening to the interior is something difficult to stay on top of. Then, as you noted, things like masts don't work. Still, the traditional style probably wouldn't support an Eastbay type of accent, so here is the shortened cabin, still wearing a vertical mast. (Took a bit of the pink out too.)

Click to expand...

Nice job, Healhustler. You're almost there!

CPseudonym said:

Don it's hard to believe a Tennessean would have altitude issues

Click to expand...

Maybe it was the untaxed whiskey.

Alemao said:

Click to expand...

ahhhh...the original Diesel Duck.

It looks like it has a better hull design anyway. It's the first Duck/Coot that doesn't push a bigger bow wave than a Bayliner.

CPseudonym said:

John your interior volume will be similar to Pineapple Girl's PT 35. I never considered sundeck styles because of our active boys but wowzers do those things have space! They pack a small condo into those things.

How fast will that Carver run?

Don it's hard to believe a Tennessean would have altitude issues

Click to expand...

It "should" cruise around 20kts...upper teens at least. I say should because I do not know because the running gear was in such poor shape that we couldn't sea trial it. I was obviously walking away from the deal and I mumbled some ridiculous price that would get me back into the deal....and the seller accepted that LOW price. I just got finished spending time with the engine surveyor, and while we could not run the engines under load, he has pretty high confidence the engines are fine. The are clean and low time(350 hours) and absolutely ZERO blowby...he was even slightly surprised at the lack of even a slight "puff"...basically "can't get any better". My one BIG surprise was that all this time, I thought they were 370hp but they are 330hp. That kinda bummed me out and I do not know where I got the 370 figure but I did not pull it out of my ass. It is not on the listing and I know I asked the listing broker and that is what he told me...obviously nothing in writing sooooooooooo................. As Timjet has basically the same boat(a 355 instead of 356) with the same engines, he says his boat has plenty of power and even used the term "overpowered" for his objectives. But I am in the camp of there is never too much power! Long story short...it should run easily in that 18-22 knot range.

SeaHorse II said:

Nice job, Healhustler. You're almost there!

Click to expand...