dragged anchor

Chip it looks like you're scar'in those poor dogs half to death.

The ABS connection makes it really funny.

GOOD one Chip.

Good Grief Anode, they`re not natural water loving dogs, are they?
I second Hendo and PeterB on the Sarca, loving ours. But I can understand that exporting something that heavy and odd sized is going to be a challenge.
Interesting, I saw Sarcas stocked in BCF, a few days back when I bought my kayak.

Bruce, which Sarca did you get?

It seems odd to me that a lightweight aluminum anchor should out perform all the steel anchors of the world but they do ... including all other Danforths.

That is because "efficiency" is being compaired by the pound.

The Danforth and every other anchor needs a certain amount of AREA to grab the bottom.

A 35H or 60H Danforth should be compared to a similar aluminum anchor by its size , not the weight.

Since the weight gets the anchor down thru the weeds on some bottoms , I prefer steel to flyweight as the windlass brings it into the bow roller , not hand over hand recovery.

A Forteress would be a fine hurricane anchor , as these are usually huge, stored below , brought up before a storm and set in the best sand bottom one can find, with a special storm rode and chain and chafing gear.

For most cruisers a Danforth H , or slightly heavier CQR seems the first choice for indifferent bottoms.

FF said:

A Forteress would be a fine hurricane anchor

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Since just about the only complaint about Fortress anchors is its ability to reset if the wind changes, I would have thought differently.

SeaHorse II said:

David: Do you have 2 chain lockers on your boat? I keep my spare (Danforth) in the starboard locker with line attached. If I had to, I could deploy the spare by hand with the use of the capstan on the windlass. This is very comforting when you consider all the anchoring I do.

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Walt: I have only a single locker and its too small for an anchor and barely large enough and deep enough for one chain rode. I keep the Fortress in the Lazarette and its Brait rode next to it in a milk crate. I can have it out and over fairly quickly, but not as quickly as if it were ready to go on the foredeck.

Since this pic was taken, there is now a roller on the anchor platform in line with the bitt for the Fortress rode or our mooring pennant.

Carolena said:

We have a Fortress on our sailboat as primary and it is amazing in the muddy bottom around here. We've had five boats rafted on it with a good breeze and no dragging (in fact, it set so well that getting it back up is another story). That said, it doesn't reset well when the tides/wind change. With no windlass on the boat and given our bottom type, it made a lot of sense for us. The reset issue hasn't been too bad, but we do keep an eye on it (set alarm to check anchor around time when tide changes). All that said, we would probably go with a different anchor were we in an area with grassy, rocky or coral bottom. The Tug came with a Delta, which we like, but is not as good in the mud. The Tug also has a Fortress backup.

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The anchor test that tested the performance of anchors when there was a big change in the direction of pull like when the wind changes measured the fact that certain anchors stayed buried and all others either moved a bit or broke out and reset or broke out and never reset.

The anchors that stayed buried and didn't move over 12" were:
Spade 80
Super Max
Danforth Deepset II
Fortress
Bruce

If you look at the anchors listed you will note they have sharp points and edges and the angle of the flukes are more aggessive.

So now I have to modify the Danforth also. Well luckily the plant can grind down the point and edges and weld an additional piece to the Forjord Fluke and raise the height of the Danforth’s pad.

dwhatty said:

Since this pic was taken, there is now a roller on the anchor platform in line with the bitt for the Fortress rode or our mooring pennant.

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Speaking of pics, It sure would be great if you could post more of them. You have one of the best looking 32's I have ever seen and it's a Euro, which I covet.

Here is a Forfjord w mud flukes.

I thought they were owner add-ons but I've noyiced most are all the same and look professionally done so I suspect they are a factory option.

Anchor choice seems to be a very regional decision. Around here, the majority of boats would have the old stockless type anchor, or a variant similar to the Forfjord. The old salts around here say nothing else holds as well in the local heavy weed beds. There is the occasional are Rocna, Manson or Bruce, but they are fairly rare.

Is all this it good local knowledge, or stubborn traditional mindset?

I went with the local advice, so I'll find out soon enough. I've got a spade type as well for sandy bottom, just in case.

AusCan said:

Is all this it good local knowledge, or stubborn traditional mindset?

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That's a great question! For myself, knowing very little about what makes a great anchor, I tend to go with the tests that I see at boat shows and on the Internet. There's good advice here, too, but keeping the OP's question in mind, sometimes it's a real problem trying to confirm/deny the advice.

Tom.B said:

Since just about the only complaint about Fortress anchors is its ability to reset if the wind changes, I would have thought differently.

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The single greatest negative with the Fortress we read about when researching anchors to replace our Bruce is that under a lot of pressure it bends. And can bend quiet badly if the pull gets off to the side and the anchor doesn't unset.

This is understandable given its construction. But if one is looking for a storm anchor that will hold like stink, the Fortress would actually seem to be a poor choice if the wind is going to veer round and the pull go off to the side. In test after test of this that we saw, the Fortess bent and sometimes very severely. Just something to keep in mind.

Thanks, Marin.

Our new FX36(?) is not really going to be our primary anchor. We have a CQR that does well in the muddy bottom of the Neuse, but considering the mud performance of the Fortress, we MAY switch for a while and see how it does. We have a Navy-Type with removable stock as our big storm anchor.

The bending of the Fortress occurs under really strong pulls. In "normal" service as a primary anchor this would not be a problem.

Marin said:

The bending of the Fortress occurs under really strong pulls. In "normal" service as a primary anchor this would not be a problem.

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They also have a lifetime guarantee, send in the tweaked part & they'll replace it.

Marin I disagree w you about the claw being wi I've seen them on the bows offish boats bent quite a bit (one almost 90 degrees) but all were on large boats and fishermen are hard on equipment. I keep my Claw mostly for rocks and that's why I bought a Claw on my last boat just before we took it to Alaska. It looked stout to me. Didn't let me down either but we had perfect weather.

Excellent point RC .... another reason I probably should be using the Fortress.

Tom B. I think Navy anchors are stockless. And I think the stocks on Fortress and other Danforth anchors contribute considerably to their holding power. Think about sticking a 1/2" dia rod into the bottom and dragging it sideways. And Tom the CQR did well (very well) in an anchor test conducted on a mud bottom.

Anchors being religion? If so I better get in line .... Not my nature though.

manyboats said:

Marin I disagree w you about the claw

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I wasn't talking about a claw. I was talking about the Fortress. Read the post again.

This is my storm anchor. Luke? Navy? Herreshoff? It apparently has many names.

TBH... I doubt I will use it. I prefer to either be on the hard or in a marina during storms.

Gents,

Interesting discussion and I thought I should weigh in since our product is a topic. I have previously posted under the name Brian-Fortress, but I have set up a new name under our company.

Regarding the structural strength of Fortress anchors, they have certainly been put to the test in both controlled and real world tests over the past 25 years. During the US Navy test years ago, all of the hi-tensile Danforth steel anchors were destroyed, while the Fortress anchors tested came out relatively intact, as noted by this comment in their summary report:

“The fact that Fortress anchors incurred no significant structural damage at such high holding ratios suggests that the anchors have been extensively engineered from both the hydrodynamic and structural standpoints.”

The point of mentioning this is that manufacturing an anchor out of a high grade of steel does not necessarily equate to a higher structural strength. By thickening and precision-machining key pressure points, Fortress anchors are oftentimes better able to disperse and withstand high stress loads.

In another controlled test conducted by the Sailing Foundation, a 24 lb Fortress FX-37 held up to the 4,000 lb maximum load in a straight pull, then the same during a 90° pull, and finally again after a 180° pull. See the summary page of these test results below in the attachment.

Afterwards, the testers included this comment: "The Fortress set so deep that the rode had to be hauled in to 1:1 and significant power applied to rode by the 83,000-pound tug to break it free. It is doubtful that a sailboat would have windlass power to break it out. Perhaps large primary winches or a rising tide might be adequate. However, it is also doubtful that a sailboat could have set the anchor that deep in less than a full hurricane."

This test offered proof that if a Fortress anchor is properly set and buried, then it is not coming out of a sea bottom no matter which direction it is being pulled.

The shank was bent during these tests, but as in the real world, it is not uncommon for a Fortress anchor to remain buried and become mangled long after steel anchors would have likely broken free from the sea bottom.

And yes, we do offer a Lifetime Parts Replacement Warranty, which has no stipulations as do other warranties. I believe that it is the most customer-friendly, pain-free warranty offered by any company in the boating industry, and possibly elsewhere throughout the world as well.

To take advantage of this warranty, a customer with ANY Fortress model simply has to contact us and let us know which damaged parts he or she needs. We do not ask when, where, or from whom he or she bought their Fortress anchor.....nor do we require that they send us back the damaged parts.

For example, if a customer bought the anchor secondhand on eBay or at a garage sale or he found it on the bottom of the ocean floor.....we will still replace the damaged parts for free. The only cost to the Fortress owner is for shipping & handling, which is nominal since we ship parts via the US Postal Service.

Safe boating,
Brian Sheehan

Fortress Marine Anchors

"Made in the USA"

SeaHorse II said:

Speaking of pics, It sure would be great if you could post more of them. You have one of the best looking 32's I have ever seen and it's a Euro, which I covet.

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Oh, Oh, Walt, Walt .... I didn't know you cared. Why don't you come up (er, down, er, downeast) sometime and see me? Signed: "Emily Anne".

P.S. I even sent you written directions on how to find me (two years ago).

Fortress Anchors said:

"The Fortress set so deep that the rode had to be hauled in to 1:1 and significant power applied to rode by the 83,000-pound tug to break it free. It is doubtful that a sailboat would have windlass power to break it out. Perhaps large primary winches or a rising tide might be adequate. However, it is also doubtful that a sailboat could have set the anchor that deep in less than a full hurricane."

This test offered proof that if a Fortress anchor is properly set and buried, then it is not coming out of a sea bottom no matter which direction it is being pulled.


"Made in the USA"

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This we can relate to - several times we had to haul in the line then use the engine to break free (no windlass on the sailboat). Really like the anchor. Thanks for providing the technical feedback and being clear about your association with the company.

dwhatty said:

Oh Walt ....

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Come on, David! The ice hasn't even melted in your neck of the woods yet and besides what else do you have to do? Meanwhile, most of us are ===>

SeaHorse II said:

Come on, David! The ice hasn't even melted in your neck of the woods yet and besides what else do you have to do? Meanwhile, most of us are ===>

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Sad, but true.

Tom.B said:

This is my storm anchor. Luke? Navy? Herreshoff? It apparently has many names.

TBH... I doubt I will use it. I prefer to either be on the hard or in a marina during storms.

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Tom B,
That's a Kedge anchor and was frequently called a "Yachtsman's Anchor" also.
These people (see link) offer a Herreshoff version of the Kedge and has over half the holding power of most other anchors. Not bad considering. And I've read ther'e very fast setting. The Herrishoff has wider flukes than the usual Kedge. And the fluke arms are shaped a bit differently.


Here is a Kedge being used by a fisherman in Craig Ak probably on a Halibut skate. You can see in Tom B's drawing how one would run the stock through the hole at the top of the shank and fold it alongside the shank. The end of the stock is bent so the stock can be turned alongside the shank. Then the anchor can lay flat on the fore deck.
http://http://bronzeblocks.com/

Andy G said:

Bruce, which Sarca did you get?

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Andy, no.6 Super Sarca, in gal. On displacement, loaded, we were between a 5 and a 6 size, so went for the heavier 22kg one, though it was a big jump in size and price, much greater than from no.4 to 5.

High jack starting.

Andy and Bruce: I would love a 13kg Sacra but the shipping cost estimate from UPS would be more than the anchor cost. Sure hope they'd start distributing in the states. It does look well suited to our Delta mud here in California.

High jack over.

"I prefer to either be on the hard or in a marina during storms."

Be sure to find aboat yard that is up a good hill.

In some areas hurricane storm surge + tide can run over 15-20 feet .

It takes a really special marina to have piles long enough to keep docks and boats in place with an extra 20 ft of water.

Here in FL the trick is to put at least 2 locks and 50-100 miles between the real water and the boat dock.

On a cruise I would rather chug up a river and anchor with my storm anchors than trust an unknown boat yard.

Brian,

Welcome back and I remember you. We also have Rex of Anchor Right Australia pop in from time to time and has added much to our anchor threads.

The anchor tests you submit are confusing and several anchors represented I've never heard of ... Luke, Davis, Max 17 and Performance 35. I suspect the Performance 35 is a steel Danforth marketed by West Marine but ? Anchors interest me and I read about them more than others and see that a large number of anchors fail miserably in one test and shine like a diamond in another. In some "tests" there are advertisements included for anchors represented in the tests. Frequently anchors test so poorly that one would be led to believe that putting an old engine flywheel over the side would work as well. With your Fortress it most often performs wonderfully and frequently out performs all others but I have downloaded a test that presents a less favorable showing for the Fortress. Regarding some anchors I've never seen a poor showing in any test and frequently some older anchors like the CQR, Claw, Danforth anchors and others show holding power maximums of less than 1/10th of the top performers. I can see how an anchor can be half as good as another but these older anchors have been holding boats in place all over the world for a very long time representing millions of performances ... not all wonderful I'm sure but we don't hear of anchors dragging very often.

I see your "palms" or pads are longer and at a lower angle than most Danforths. So I would think the pads getting the back end of the anchor up enough to angle the flukes down into the bottom is better than most and of course the Fortress being light helps as well.

I see some Danforth type anchors do not have a stock at all. The Brittany for example. Being essentially flat it would seem the Danforth types wouldn't need aid to stay flat on the bottom so why have the stock? The stock may be drag and contribute to holding power but I suspect it may also limit or reduce the ability do penetrate deeper.

Manyboats, thanks for your welcome message. Rex at Anchor Right is a solid guy and a very passionate fellow anchor manufacturer. He makes a terrific product and I have a great respect for him.

Regarding the test I posted, you are correct, the Performance 35 is a West Marine anchor model. The Luke anchor is made by the Paul E. Luke Co. and is modeled after the traditional fisherman's anchor.

The Max (or Super Max) is made by Creative Marine. There is a Davis Anchor company, but I am not sure about that anchor tested. A Google search on the exact model (Davis DXL 45) did not turn up anything. I will check the original test report and let you know.

Regarding other tests, I would be surprised if a Fortress anchor performed well in all of them. We know from our own extensive product testing (which was oftentimes alongside competitive brands) that there are many variables which can negatively affect test performance. In almost all of the anchor tests I have seen, no one single anchor has always been the top performer. The exception might be Rex's Excel model, which appears to have performed very well in all of the tests conducted in Australia.

And I am in full agreement with you regarding the older models, as they have provided many years of excellent performance to satisfied owners all over the world. E.S. "Mac" Maloney, who is 90+ years young and who authored the Chapman's Seamanship book for decades, is a long time CQR user, as is noted author Tom Neale, who has lived aboard his boat since the late 70s. I am sure that Bruce and Danforth have their strong followings as well.

The Mud Palms, which we have included with every anchor for the past 17 years or so, lift the back end of the anchor up so that the flukes take a more aggressive angle into the sea bottom, and we recommend that they are permanently installed.

Concerning the stock (narrow round rod), it acts as the landing gear and it helps stabilize the anchor once it reaches the sea bottom. Anchors with shorter stocks (and customers have cut ours to fit in their anchor lockers) or no stocks have a tendency to move unsettled along the bottom until one or both of the flukes begin to dig in and set. This is particularly noticeable if the boat is falling back quickly due to wind or current.

You are certainly right as well in that a downside of a long stock is that it is possible it will inhibit seabed penetration to some degree, as will the roll bar on some of the "new generation" models.

Thanks again,
Brian