anchor chain/gypsy size

Eric:

Our boats are of similar size and weight and I had a 33 lb. Bruce as my main anchor. Although it was quick to set, it also was quick to release. I stumbled on a killer deal on a polished SS knock off of the Bruce but this one is 44 lbs. Not only does it hold better, but it looks so nice on my bow! <grin>

Hi Walt,
Indeed it does look nice and even if it were a piece of scrap metal at 44# it should hold hold my boat well. I have a small forjord. I may practice w it as I think it's performance will be very similar. I intend to label my line so I can see how easily the anchors pull out at 3-1 and then 2 to 1 scope. I'll need to find a good concistent bottom. The 44 is just another 10lbs* ..* what the fluck. If I got the drum winch @ the 44 w 15' of 3/8 chain and the 350' of 5/8 Brait I already have** ..* could be a very good system. Also the Bruce would work well w the anchor retrieval ring (oval) that I saw on a web site. Murray Pacific (Ketchikan's Fisheries Supply) even stocks a Bruce kno-off. Some Bruce knock-offs are supposed to not work as well as the original. Any truth to this and if so which are the bad claws.
Last week I became the "Bad Eye". I fell w out arms as landing gear on a rock in my back yard* .. SMACK* .. really hard on my right eyebrow. I'm still quite disfunctional w many other cuts and bruises plus a fractured wrist. I am glad your'e still speaking to me Walt.

Eric Henning

"Some Bruce knock-offs are supposed to not work as well as the original. Any truth to this and if so which are the bad claws. "


I believe ALL the knock offs are a poor choice for a cruising boat , that may end up in indifferent anchorages.

Yes REAL CQR ,and Danforths cost $$$ , but sleeping at night is worth some $$$.

Perhaps IF I had a superb anchor retrival setup , I might contemplate a 125lb Chinese CQR , which costs about 1/2 a real 60lb CQR, but mostly for anchoring in such a foul area that I might loose it.

So far a trip line has always done the job.

In principal the Bruce and Danforth are the same , just a different shape .

There is a difference with a fly weight , the Danforth may plane , the Bruce wont.

Anchoring in FL during most summer months means THUNDERSTORMS , so a breeze far beyond a "named storm - 35K" can happen 3X a day for weeks . Thunderstorms frequently run 50-70K and sometimes have a wind reversal at the end.

The simple solution is full sized REAL anchor gear (not Chinese knock offs) , and the techniques , stern anchor ,to handle the conditions.

Eric:

As you well know, there are numerous ways to mark the rode on your boat. Since I have all chain (238 ft.) I use red, white & blue wire ties. (plastic) I have red at 50 ft, white at 100 ft and blue at 150 ft. Beyond 150 is red, white and blue at 200 feet. using the colors of our flag is easy to remember. Also, 238 ft is a lot of chain. (weight) I probably don't even need an anchor. <grin> Guys that use all chain rode and talk about the great holding power of their various anchors, should give a little credit to the 100+ lbs of chain that rest on the bottom. On my fishing trips to your part of the world, the guides use a set up such as you describe (chain, line and drum) almost exclusively on the 32' aluminum boats. In some cases, they anchor in 300 ft. of water when fishing Halibut.

It's interesting to me to see the various anchoring techniques, as they vary so much by by local. The guys in the Baja approach it quite differently. Different strokes for different folks?

Sorry to hear about your "fall." It happened to me last April and resulted in broken ribs. Man, it takes a long time to heal these days. (8 weeks for me!)

Walt

-- Edited by SeaHorse II on Sunday 2nd of August 2009 07:50:20 AM

-- Edited by SeaHorse II on Sunday 2nd of August 2009 08:03:20 AM

I have heard the same sort of thing that Fred mentioned---- the only thing that performs like a Bruce (assuming you feel a Bruce has performance) is a Bruce. But..... I have never heard or read why a genuine Bruce has better characteristics than a knock-off Bruce. The only person who ever told me anything concrete was Bob Hale (the publisher of the Waggoner Guide) and who used to be the Bruce distributor/representative for this area years ago. He said that the knock-offs do not have the same geometry of the genuine Bruce even though they appear to be the same. Things like fluke curvature, the angle of the edges of the flukes, and so on, are just enough different that they don't give the knock-offs the same kind of setting and re-setting characteristics of the genuine article. This is what Bob told me---- I have not done any comparisons myself of a genuine Bruce and any of the knock-offs.

As to marking our rode, we initially used color combinations of red, white and blue to mark the chain, following someone's recommended pattern. But we could never remember what "three blues" meant or a "red and blue." So we scrapped the whole idea and on someone else's recommendation simply tied a wire tie to a link every ten feet. We did not trim the wire ties, and we put them all on the same side of the chain so that as it's running in or out the wire ties don't come in contact with the wildcat. Granted, the long tail of a tie could get snagged down in the chain locker and break off, although we haven't had that happen yet, so we keep a ready supply of new ties to replace any that lose their tails. We use white ties so they will show up better.

So when we deploy the anchor, whichever of us is operating the windlass (usually me) we simply count out the wire ties as they run out to the end the pulpit. I don't even have to see the ties if I'm looking at something else--- I can put my fingers on the chain (after the wildcat ) and count them as I feel them. If we want to put out a hundred and ten feet of rode, it's just a matter of counting out eleven ties.

When the anchor is set we just stick a piece of blue painter's tape on the cable raceway between the lower and upper helm stations and write how many ties are out.

-- Edited by Marin on Sunday 2nd of August 2009 07:20:07 PM

Red, white and blue is easy to remember. Red is 25 feet, white is 50 feet, blue is 75 feet and red/white/blue, is at each 100. (assuming you can remember if you already have 100 feet out or not) Even during the off season the sequence is easy to remember and with 250 feet of chain (which I have) it's hard to get confused. 25 feet is an easy marker for me. I notice Marin marks at 10 foot increments which is too precise for me. My general system is to lay out a reasonable 3-5 to 1 scope, depending on the weather. If heavy weather is predicted I'll lay out more, but for the average night at anchor 3-1 works really well and I sleep as well as I do anywhere else. (there is a story about sleeping the way I do, and why)

Some folks state that their ties get broken off and lost. That's not my experience, although I tuck my tails into the chain to avoid the flag sticking out and hanging up as the chain goes thru my labyrinth hawse into the locker. It's easy to miss a marker if you cut them short, but tucked/weaved into the chain, they are easy to count.

Kenz

"I have not done any comparisons myself of a genuine Bruce and any of the knock-offs."

The only difference is the Bruce are claimed to be forged,

the Chinese I have seen are simple cast iron from sand castings.

Your decision,



-- Edited by FF on Monday 3rd of August 2009 05:35:29 AM

There is a short discussion on the T&T list right now about using Rescue Tape as markers on chain rode. Apparently the proponents wrap thin lengths of the tape in various colors around one side of a chain link. The only negative anyone has mentioned to this is that the tape on the first twenty or thirty feet of chain gets worn off pretty quickly as the chain drags around on the bottom.

So, as promised, I replaced my old rusty chain on Saturday with 100' of 10mm (3/8") plus 100' of 16mm 3-strand nylon rope. Put my back out in the process, but all's well that ends well!

My Muir Atlantic windlass (vertical) handled the cross-over from chain to rope perfectly, and reeled in the rope equally well. Worked on Saturday, worked on Sunday, all good so far. As described by Ken, it's fitted with a fixed peeler utensil which peels the rope off as it comes around the gypsy. A spring-loaded finger guides the rope into the chain pipe.

The rope looked to be well squashed in the inner rope jaws of the gypsy but it appeared to go in and come out smoothly. Dunno how long rope can survive that kind of treatment, but I take comfort from the fact that 90% of my anchoring will be will 100' of chain only. The rope is there for the rare occasion when I need more scope.

I'm very happy!

Thanks for the update. Congratulations on devising a working system.

Good luck on your back,

Ken

Is anybody using a drum type self storing hydraulic winch like those aboard west coast Trollers? I
have seen them with chain and wire rope combos and they seem perfect for many of these types of boats. I talked to a company on the west coast(manufacturer) and if I recall, It was around $1400 for the 40-50' boat version. Of course it would require a hydraulic pump. The wire rope is very inexpensive and this may solve several stowage problems. I don't know if you could stow
enough chain to have all chain set up. If I remember correctly, George Buehler talks about them in "The Troller Book".
A custom welded set up could probably be assembled from easily obtained parts also(think Northern Hydraulics). Whad da ya think?
Jack

Jack,

Like you say they are very popular up here w the fishing fleet. I don't recall seeing a fish boat without one. They use cable/chain, rope/nylon and all chain. They build them to hold any amount of rope or chain you want. About 2/3rds use rope and chain and the rest use all chain and a few use cable. These drum winches look heavy but they are not being made out of mostly aluminum so how much the thing weighs is determined by the rode they carry. They don't look yachty enough for most yachts and I think they are more like 3,000 dollars. I know where one is that came off an old gillnetter for a bit under $1000 here on the island. Probably be had for less as it's still in his yard.

www.kolstrand@msn.com - 206 784 2500 - Seattle WA

www.kinematicsmarine.com 360 659 5415 - Marrysville WA

Eric Henning

Eric
I may have had my prices wrong. I do believe it was Kinematics marine that I talked to.
When the time comes Ill search and find one. Surely it will raise eyebrows on a Florida boat. I'll just have to tell people it is a manatee recovery apparatus!
Jack

One hassle with a drum is as line is stored , the working diameter increases , reducing the power of the unit.

With hyd probably no problem ,

Hi again Fred,
I'm following you around eh? Yeah** ..* I've asked numerous fishermen about that* perceving the problem and they say the wide range of speeds the hyd motor will run and the high torque available (most of those things are direct drive) it seems to make it not a problem. And Jack** ..* if you do find one for $1400 let me know.

Eric Henning

if you do find one for $1400 let me know.


As always Boats and Harbors will come thru , perhaps for 1/2 of that.