FF
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Diesel Fuel Additives - Stanadyne
This will usually solve injector problems that do not require a rebuild in an hour.
This will usually solve injector problems that do not require a rebuild in an hour.
more smoke
- Thread starter Daddyo
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If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
OP
OP
Daddyo
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The 6oz was added to 120 gallons at the time, that's why no effect. I'm convinced it's not a gas problem after talking with the driver and now having added more fuel. Today I'll be stopping and getting some SF in proper quantity and see what that does.
Al
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Mark,
The picture of the boat in Southeast Alaska is ex-military This military class first had twin pancake GM diesels and when these began to fail, the common choice were 671 GM diesels. What you are seeing in this photo is typical "jimmy"- "Blue" smoke. Not trying to be picky, just know the class of boat and common engine installation
Al- Ketchikan (Bridge to Nowhere)Alaska
The picture of the boat in Southeast Alaska is ex-military This military class first had twin pancake GM diesels and when these began to fail, the common choice were 671 GM diesels. What you are seeing in this photo is typical "jimmy"- "Blue" smoke. Not trying to be picky, just know the class of boat and common engine installation
Al- Ketchikan (Bridge to Nowhere)Alaska
IslandEagle
Senior Member
Yep, exactly correct. This is the way Island Eagle looks, always. And if you look at my mast, you will see the black band where the smoke hits it, I've given up trying to keep it clean and instead I just call it "warpaint".
Scott Welch
Island Eagle
RickB
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That's it, the M/V Valkyrie if I am not mistaken. Giving some lucky guests a great SE experience despite a passing view of one of the least attractive sights in SE.
It has a pair of original 1945 GM 6-110s installed. They smoke blue from burning lube oil.
RickB
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It didn't improve combustion, it helped reduce wax formation.
The gasoline actually decreased the cetane rating and impaired combustion by delaying ignition.
Al
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Hummmmmm Well, Having been assigned with Standard Oil (now Chevron) in Fairbanks covering the North Slope during the initial activity in the 70's gasoline was not nor used in diesel fuel to dilute. Rick your observation on the wax is correct.You may be confusing J4 military jet fuel which contained a like gasoline component.
Civilian jet fuel was used as the congeal point for civilian Jet. is minus somewhere around 80 degrees Farenhite.
Automatic transmission fluid was subsituted for hydralic oil as it had a minus 50 degrees plus flow. When synthitic fluids became more promanate and accepted, then petrolum based hydraulic fluids, greases, and engine oil decreased during extreme cold. Just saying. Belive me folks unless you have need to be in that environment in the winter, thinking about petroleum flow rate is the last thing you are interested in!!!
I actually viewed a D-8 Cat dozer blade that had been dropped from a center high point directly to the ground and it literally cracked the ram casings. It was near -60 degrees at the time.
Thanks Rick, I had forgotten the 6-110's.nomenclature. But what is the comment regarding "Unattractive sights"? Only asking as a life long resident, a very long time resident I might add. Sometimes a comment such as this brings the observation that "One can not see the forest for the trees". which begs the inquiry.
Regards to the commentators. This is really a great forum
Al-Ketchikan (Bridge to Nowhere) Alaska
Civilian jet fuel was used as the congeal point for civilian Jet. is minus somewhere around 80 degrees Farenhite.
Automatic transmission fluid was subsituted for hydralic oil as it had a minus 50 degrees plus flow. When synthitic fluids became more promanate and accepted, then petrolum based hydraulic fluids, greases, and engine oil decreased during extreme cold. Just saying. Belive me folks unless you have need to be in that environment in the winter, thinking about petroleum flow rate is the last thing you are interested in!!!
I actually viewed a D-8 Cat dozer blade that had been dropped from a center high point directly to the ground and it literally cracked the ram casings. It was near -60 degrees at the time.
Thanks Rick, I had forgotten the 6-110's.nomenclature. But what is the comment regarding "Unattractive sights"? Only asking as a life long resident, a very long time resident I might add. Sometimes a comment such as this brings the observation that "One can not see the forest for the trees". which begs the inquiry.
Regards to the commentators. This is really a great forum
Al-Ketchikan (Bridge to Nowhere) Alaska
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Well, unless Rick was being facetious I would say that a plain hill with trees on it is, compared to other kinds of scenery SE Alaska has to offer, one of the least attractive.
As to the Valkyrie, there was a boat with almost identical lines in the Bellingham marina for several years awhile back. It had been what the owner called a crew boat for the Royal Canadian Navy. IIRC it was about 80' long with a pilothouse, a stack behind it (same position as Valkyrie's) and then a long cabin. The cabin had originaly contained bench seating for the crews of the RCN ships the boat was ferrying to and from shore. It had two engines but I don't recall what they were.
The owner had converted it to a liveaboard but he did not change the boat's external lines. It was in great shape when he took Carey and I on a tour one day and he took it out regularly. He was not that old of a fellow and lived aboard with his wife and daughter until he had a sudden heart attack. His widow sold the boat and we saw it now and again (but not in the marina). Don't know where it is now.
I'm not trying to imply that this boat is the Valkyrie, only that the two boats appear to be of the same type.
As to the Valkyrie, there was a boat with almost identical lines in the Bellingham marina for several years awhile back. It had been what the owner called a crew boat for the Royal Canadian Navy. IIRC it was about 80' long with a pilothouse, a stack behind it (same position as Valkyrie's) and then a long cabin. The cabin had originaly contained bench seating for the crews of the RCN ships the boat was ferrying to and from shore. It had two engines but I don't recall what they were.
The owner had converted it to a liveaboard but he did not change the boat's external lines. It was in great shape when he took Carey and I on a tour one day and he took it out regularly. He was not that old of a fellow and lived aboard with his wife and daughter until he had a sudden heart attack. His widow sold the boat and we saw it now and again (but not in the marina). Don't know where it is now.
I'm not trying to imply that this boat is the Valkyrie, only that the two boats appear to be of the same type.
markpierce
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Interesting ... but note the Valkyrie is towing its dinghy, possibly thanks to the mostly protective waters of SE Alaska.
FF
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What you are seeing in this photo is typical "jimmy"- "Blue" smoke.
Jimmys with N series injectors seldom smoke.
With H or HC injectors will smoke at light loads , most of the time!
Jimmys with N series injectors seldom smoke.
With H or HC injectors will smoke at light loads , most of the time!
RickB
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The presence of a cruise ship.
Marin isn't far off with regard to the clear cutting scars. That was a shameful bit of SE history. Selling raw logs for export for less than the taxpayer paid to build the roads to haul them out makes the "bridge to nowhere" look like petty larceny.
Adding gasoline to diesel fuel for whatever reason is one of the "101 Stupid Boating Tricks" that show up on boating forums from time to time.
windmill29130
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Just something I picked up on another forum.
"White smoke indicates either water vapor from dirty fuel, a water leak into
the cylinder or atomized, but completely unburned, fuel. Air in the fuel can
also cause white smoke."
It being both engines I would say water. Next stop, fuel up and add Sea Foam. Good Luck!
"White smoke indicates either water vapor from dirty fuel, a water leak into
the cylinder or atomized, but completely unburned, fuel. Air in the fuel can
also cause white smoke."
It being both engines I would say water. Next stop, fuel up and add Sea Foam. Good Luck!
psneeld
Guru
Winter diesel fuel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Blending
In Northern America gas stations offer two types of diesel fuel - according to ASTM D975[5] these are named No.1 and No.2 fuel. No.1 fuel (kerosene) has a natural CFPP of -40 °C but it is more expensive than No.2 fuel. Adding No.1 fuel will lower the CFPP of No.2 fuel - adding 10% will lower the CFPP temperature by about 5 degrees.[6]
For some diesel motors it is also possible to add even lighter fuels like gasoline to extend the CFPP characteristics. Some car makers were recommending adding up to 20% gasoline to permit operation in cold weather (at the price of higher consumption) and it had been common practice in Europe where No.1 fuel is not offered at gas stations. Since the 1990s car makers began selling only direct injection diesel engines - these will not withstand any gasoline portions in the fuel as the high pressure in the injection device will ignite the gasoline early on possibly destroying the injectors.
Car makers selling Common Rail or Unit Injector diesel engines prohibit the blending of diesel fuel with either gasoline or kerosene as it may destroy the injection device.[4][7]
Blending
In Northern America gas stations offer two types of diesel fuel - according to ASTM D975[5] these are named No.1 and No.2 fuel. No.1 fuel (kerosene) has a natural CFPP of -40 °C but it is more expensive than No.2 fuel. Adding No.1 fuel will lower the CFPP of No.2 fuel - adding 10% will lower the CFPP temperature by about 5 degrees.[6]
For some diesel motors it is also possible to add even lighter fuels like gasoline to extend the CFPP characteristics. Some car makers were recommending adding up to 20% gasoline to permit operation in cold weather (at the price of higher consumption) and it had been common practice in Europe where No.1 fuel is not offered at gas stations. Since the 1990s car makers began selling only direct injection diesel engines - these will not withstand any gasoline portions in the fuel as the high pressure in the injection device will ignite the gasoline early on possibly destroying the injectors.
Car makers selling Common Rail or Unit Injector diesel engines prohibit the blending of diesel fuel with either gasoline or kerosene as it may destroy the injection device.[4][7]
Alaskan Sea-Duction
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Found this:
Diesel Smoke tells YOU a Story
Basically, smoke from a diesel engine indicates that something is not right. It should be taken as an indication that there is a problem existing (or developing), that will potentially shorten the engine life, or result in unnecessary costs. It should be regarded as an opportunity to take measures that will save you money in both the long term and also the short term. At the least, that smoke may be due to a simple problem, that is causing poor combustion efficiency, and costing you in excessive fuel bills (eg carboned up engine from excessive idling, stop start operation or short run times). At the other end of the scale, it may be your last chance to act, before a catastrophic engine failure occurs (eg piston seizure, valve or turbocharger failure).
A diesel engine in good condition should produce no visible smoke from the exhaust, under most operating conditions. A short puff of smoke when an engine is accelerated under load may be acceptable, due to the lag before the turbocharger speed and air flow is able to match the volume of diesel injected into the cylinders. That would only apply to older technology diesel engines, but with modern type diesels, no smoke at all should be evident.
There are three basic types of smoke, as identifiable by their colour.
Black smoke is the most common smoke emitted from diesel engines. It indicates poor and incomplete combustion of the diesel fuel. There are many causes, including
Cleaning of internals of engines has usually only been possible at overhaul, however, Cost Effective Maintenance provide two products to enable vehicle and equipment owners to quickly, safely and cheaply restore full cleanliness to combustion and exhaust spaces (FTC Decarbonizer) as well as piston rings, oil pumps, oil galleries, oil coolers, piston skirts, valve gear, etc (Flushing Oil Concentrate).
Black smoke is high in carbon or soot, which is an undesirable product of diesel combustion. Now, the combustion of diesel is a complicated process of breaking down the various hydrocarbon fuel molecules into progressively smaller and smaller molecules, by burning in the presence of oxygen. The main and ideal end products of combustion are CO2 and H2O (carbon dioxide, the greenhouse gas and water). It is believed that the last step in the process is carbon monoxide (the poisonous gas) to carbon dioxide. This is also the slowest step by far, and when combustion conditions deteriorate some upstream bottle necking occurs in the chain of combustion reactions. This results (according to some authorities) in polymerization of smaller partly burnt molecules into much larger ones, which become visible as soot, or black smoke.
Blue smoke is an indication of oil being burnt. The oil can enter the combustion chamber for several reasons.
Once again, restore physical cleanliness to all components. Replace worn parts where necessary. In some situations, where the engines are pretty worn, but you just need to keep them in service, cleaning with the previously mentioned products, followed by effective additional anti-wear protection, will reduce internal stresses on all those tired components, providing extended service life.
White smoke occurs when raw diesel comes through the exhaust completely intact and unburned. Some causes of this include
Water entering combustion spaces will also create white smoke. Faulty head gaskets and cracked cylinder heads or blocks are a common cause of water entry, and are often to blame.
Unfortunately, expensive mechanical repair is the only proper solution here.
Diesel Smoke tells YOU a Story
Basically, smoke from a diesel engine indicates that something is not right. It should be taken as an indication that there is a problem existing (or developing), that will potentially shorten the engine life, or result in unnecessary costs. It should be regarded as an opportunity to take measures that will save you money in both the long term and also the short term. At the least, that smoke may be due to a simple problem, that is causing poor combustion efficiency, and costing you in excessive fuel bills (eg carboned up engine from excessive idling, stop start operation or short run times). At the other end of the scale, it may be your last chance to act, before a catastrophic engine failure occurs (eg piston seizure, valve or turbocharger failure).
A diesel engine in good condition should produce no visible smoke from the exhaust, under most operating conditions. A short puff of smoke when an engine is accelerated under load may be acceptable, due to the lag before the turbocharger speed and air flow is able to match the volume of diesel injected into the cylinders. That would only apply to older technology diesel engines, but with modern type diesels, no smoke at all should be evident.
There are three basic types of smoke, as identifiable by their colour.
Black smoke is the most common smoke emitted from diesel engines. It indicates poor and incomplete combustion of the diesel fuel. There are many causes, including
- Incorrect timing
- Dirty or worn injectors
- Over-fuelling
- Faulty turbocharger (ie not enough air to match the fuel)
- Incorrect valve clearanceIncorrect air/fuel ratio
- Low cylinder compression (eg sticking piston rings or worn components)
- Dirty air cleaner
- Restricted induction system (eg system too small or kinked inlet piping)
- Other engine tune factors
- Poor quality fuel
- Excessive carbon build up in combustion and exhaust spaces
- Cool operating temperatures
Cleaning of internals of engines has usually only been possible at overhaul, however, Cost Effective Maintenance provide two products to enable vehicle and equipment owners to quickly, safely and cheaply restore full cleanliness to combustion and exhaust spaces (FTC Decarbonizer) as well as piston rings, oil pumps, oil galleries, oil coolers, piston skirts, valve gear, etc (Flushing Oil Concentrate).
Black smoke is high in carbon or soot, which is an undesirable product of diesel combustion. Now, the combustion of diesel is a complicated process of breaking down the various hydrocarbon fuel molecules into progressively smaller and smaller molecules, by burning in the presence of oxygen. The main and ideal end products of combustion are CO2 and H2O (carbon dioxide, the greenhouse gas and water). It is believed that the last step in the process is carbon monoxide (the poisonous gas) to carbon dioxide. This is also the slowest step by far, and when combustion conditions deteriorate some upstream bottle necking occurs in the chain of combustion reactions. This results (according to some authorities) in polymerization of smaller partly burnt molecules into much larger ones, which become visible as soot, or black smoke.
Blue smoke is an indication of oil being burnt. The oil can enter the combustion chamber for several reasons.
- Worn valve guides or seals
- Wear in power assemblies (ie cylinders, piston rings, ring grooves)
- Cylinder glaze
- Piston ring sticking
- Incorrect grade of oil (eg oil too thin, and migrating past the rings)
- Fuel dilution in the oil (oil thinned out with diesel)
Once again, restore physical cleanliness to all components. Replace worn parts where necessary. In some situations, where the engines are pretty worn, but you just need to keep them in service, cleaning with the previously mentioned products, followed by effective additional anti-wear protection, will reduce internal stresses on all those tired components, providing extended service life.
White smoke occurs when raw diesel comes through the exhaust completely intact and unburned. Some causes of this include
- Faulty or damaged injectors
- Incorrect injection timing (could be a worn timing gear or damaged crankshaft keyway).
- Low cylinder compression (eg caused by leaking or broken valves, piston ring sticking, cylinder and/or ring wear, or cylinder glaze)
Water entering combustion spaces will also create white smoke. Faulty head gaskets and cracked cylinder heads or blocks are a common cause of water entry, and are often to blame.
Unfortunately, expensive mechanical repair is the only proper solution here.
Since he did not have this problem until he took on fuel, and it affects two separate engines, my suspicion is that it is fuel related and will go away as this load of fuel is used up.
It's unlikely that any of the mechanical problems mentioned above or in other responses happened coincidentally to both engines at the same time.
It's unlikely that any of the mechanical problems mentioned above or in other responses happened coincidentally to both engines at the same time.
RickB
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Not quite accurate. Direct injection engines tend to have lower CR than indirect injection engines, but a higher injection pressure due to the nozzle type required for direct injection. A direct injector uses small holes to atomize and evenly (as possible) distribute fuel in the combustion chamber and this requires high pressure to achieve consistent atomization.
An indirect injector normally uses a pintle or valve type injector that squirts a coarser mist into the pre-combustion space at a lower pressure.
In the case of the direct injector, fuel is an important cooling medium for the nozzle and gasoline will carbonize and create wear and clogging problems but ignition is scarcely a consideration as it is slower to ignite than diesel in the combustion chamber.
Gasoline contaminated fuel has lower lubricity as well as a tendency to carbonize or create other damaging deposits so it is definitely a no no to mix in diesel in modern extremely high pressure injection systems as are used in common rail applications.
OP
OP
Daddyo
Guru
Less then 15 gallons in the tank and I took on 240g a few days and 400 miles ago. Plenty of smoke. I switched to the second filter a few days ago and today when I looked at the bowl of the one I shut down it had turned a very pronounced green. Like swamp green! I would say I have an algae problem? And water? Is their a good quick way to test for water? How best to kill the algae?
FF
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Is their a good quick way to test for water?
Yes they sell a cream that can be rubbed on the side of a hose or a tank stick , that changes color with water.
If you can stick the tank and find water , pumping it out is required.
No water , no bugs.
But there are at least a dozen poisons for killing a tank full of bugs at any marina..
Yes they sell a cream that can be rubbed on the side of a hose or a tank stick , that changes color with water.
If you can stick the tank and find water , pumping it out is required.
No water , no bugs.
But there are at least a dozen poisons for killing a tank full of bugs at any marina..
Is their a good quick way to test for water?
Yes they sell a cream that can be rubbed on the side of a hose or a tank stick , that changes color with water...QUOTE]
It's called water finding paste and any home heating oil company should have it. I'm not sure how much it will help though unless your fill spout is right over the outlet of your fuel tanks. You have to have a measurable water/fuel interface for it to work.
If you have run that far with that fuel, keep switching filters and I'd get home.
