Is radar dangerous?

I went threw some locks on the Okeechobee and they had me shut down my radar. I'm guessing because it emits a dangerous wave. Is that shooting into the back of my head when I'm traveling. Could that be well never mind....

Hazardous to Your Health? Page 2

But like any modern device, radar is not 100-percent safe. There are justified concerns that some older pacemakers may be susceptible to radar’s electromagnetic interference and some evidence to suggest that long-term exposure to pulsed microwaves, such as those emitted by radar, might damage the light-sensitive cells of the eyes. Overall, though, the message is good: There’s no hard evidence that yacht radars pose a health hazard and plenty of responsible scientific evidence that they do not.

^^^^ well put.

Continued exposure to radar emissions may do harm- for the casual user, it shouldn't be much of a problem. Our underway policy is that the radar array is always in standby when away from the dock- if conditions warrant its use, we try to minimize exposure time by using the lower helm.

Mythbusters did an episode on this and their findings were it was a myth. The wattage is so low that your VHF antenna puts out more.

You should not have it mounted where your in it's path.

Did you know that the micro wave oven is radar technology. Back when first developed the beam was so strong it boiled/kill birds flying through the beam. the first micro waves were Amanradar. So standing in front of a micro wave oven you are getting a small dose. However when not in use the radar should be on standby.

Well it looks like a blew my age again. I remeber when!

I remember in 1970 our neighbor bought an Amana Radarange and the fact that it could cook hotdogs in less then a minute blew our minds.

WHO | Electromagnetic fields and public health: radars and human health

Marine radars can be found on small pleasure boats to large ocean going vessels. Peak powers of these systems can reach up to 30 kW, with average powers ranging from 1 to 25 W. Under normal operating conditions, with the antenna rotating, the average power density of the higher power systems within a metre of the antenna is usually less than 10 W/m2. In accessible areas on most watercraft, these levels would fall to a few percent of present public RF exposure standards.

Daddyo said:

I remember in 1970 our neighbor bought an Amana Radarange and the fact that it could cook hotdogs in less then a minute blew our minds.

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The first micro wave we had was a fancy expensive bottle warmer, 15 seconds. The oringal micro waves were very powerful.



Funny story

When the kids where young I used the micro to speed up drying/setting time. The big thing at that time was solid fuel rockets. The rocket lost a fin so my oldest son, put the rocket in the micro wave, but he forgot to take out the solid fuel engine. Well of course the engine ignited in the micro wave. Scared him to death, but the only damage to the micro wave was some melted plastic.

I'll bet the radar's installation manual and operating manual state if there are any dangers from the radar. I don't have one, but if I were to install one, I would study the manuals and I would try to place it where humans would not be in the beam.

The people running the locks who asked that it be shut down don't know what brand or what power radar is on each boat that goes by. By asking that it be shut down they are protecting their health. I don't blame them.

When I was in the Navy we had an aircraft that had a big powerful radar (13' X 4' antenna). There was an entrance hatch just in front of the antenna in the nose wheel compartment. We were warned not to enter the ac when the radar was being run for fear of being sterilized. I was an electronics tech and stayed in the ac until the radar was turned off. That was a very powerful radar though. Interestingly I've had no children ... that I know of.

manyboats said:

When I was in the Navy we had an aircraft that had a big powerful radar (13' X 4' antenna). There was an entrance hatch just in front of the antenna in the nose wheel compartment. We were warned not to enter the ac when the radar was being run for fear of being sterilized. I was an electronics tech and stayed in the ac until the radar was turned off. That was a very powerful radar though. Interestingly I've had no children ... that I know of.

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I worked on F-4s and F-15s in the Air Force and would not walk in front of an aircraft while the radar was on.

As far as a boat, I would always mount the aray above any humans in the fly bridge, especially if I was cruising a lot.

Navy shipboard radar had higher radiated power and we were warned to be in the path of the beam. Remember this?

"Aloft, there are men working aloft. Do not rotate, radiate or energize any electrical or electronic equipment while men are working aloft".

Speaking from the standpoint of one who used to work on very high power radar systems aboard aircraft I firmly believe that radar energy can be harmful to your health.

That being said, the beam that is transmitted is very narrow in height and if the antenna is properly mounted well above the head of the user, the likelihood of suffering any ill effects is zip.

The radars I used to work on would illuminate an 18" neon bulb if it was held out in front of the radar antenna, and that's how we used to tell if the antenna was actually transmitting. Not very safe and not very smart, but it was a quick test of the functionality of the radar antenna.

Pau Hana, if your antenna is mounted above your heads you can safely turn it on. The beam is usually only about 15-30 degrees wide (vertical height) so unless the antenna is quite a distance away from you and mounted near the height of your head, you're safe. You may pick up some stray radiation from the side lobes, but that's less power than what you'd typically get from the sun's energy.

Also, by way of an FYI, it's my understanding the USCG requires that if a boat has a working radar that it be on when the boat is underway.

Good info- I do understand the principles or radar (worked with the SPS-10, -67. -48C/E, and -49 in the Navy) and know that the effective beam for our radar probably has minimal effect on us when on the flybridge-but I still exercise caution all the same....

WHO | Electromagnetic fields and public health: radars and human health

Marine radars can be found on small pleasure boats to large ocean going vessels. Peak powers of these systems can reach up to 30 kW, with average powers ranging from 1 to 25 W. Under normal operating conditions, with the antenna rotating, the average power density of the higher power systems within a meter of the antenna is usually less than 10 W/m2. In accessible areas on most watercraft, these levels would fall to a few percent of present public RF exposure standards.

When we installed a 4 KW radar antenna on our last boat we calculated the height required for installation using the manufacturer's vertical beam spread spec and my son-in-law's 6'4" height. We ensured that it would pass over his head while standing at the upper helm.

There are so many different views on the safety of the beam that we just decided to be safe.

I don't want my grandchildren to look like Ninja Turtles.

Alaskan Sea-Duction said:

I worked on F-4s and F-15s in the Air Force and would not walk in front of an aircraft while the radar was on.

As far as a boat, I would always mount the aray above any humans in the fly bridge, especially if I was cruising a lot.

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I did F-4s in the Marines as well. Those radars are the real deal!

I'm a little more conversative. I feel that exposure to mircowave radiation is like having someone throw random sized stones at you from 100 yards away. There's little chance they'll hit you with a big one, but if they do I'll hurt. Microwaves can alter a cell's nucleus, and cancer is a possibility. Exposure to microwave energy won't automatically give you cancer, it just increases the risk. The more energy, the greater likelyhood that a bad thing will happen. This is a completly different problem than being cooked, which is simply adding enough Brownian motion (heat) due to the energy increase to cause tissue breakdown (ya get burned). Sperm, by the way, are particulary sensitive to heat, so if you are a male of child producing age, try not to leave the Boy Bits in the beam. I think I get enough radiation via random energy leakage from trons, and from cosmic radition from the universe, that I don't need to add to the total if I can prevent it. I wear a seatbelt too...

I've seen some radar installations on small boats that actually have the radar mounted at the level that would place the crotch of someone at the flybridge directly in the center of the beam. I would not operate the radar from that flying bridge!

Thurman
Who isn't a doctor, but does hold an FCC first class license with a ship's radar endorsement.

GFC said:

Also, by way of an FYI, it's my understanding the USCG requires that if a boat has a working radar that it be on when the boat is underway.

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Mine too! Is this correct?

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=navRulesContent#rule7

Rule 7 - Risk of Collision

(a) Every vessel shall use all available means appropriate to the prevailing circumstances and conditions to determine if risk of collision exists. If there is any doubt such risk shall be deemed to exist.

(b) Proper use shall be made of radar equipment if fitted and operational, including long-range scanning to obtain early warning of risk of collision and radar plotting or equivalent systematic observation of detected objects.

(c) Assumptions shall not be made on the basis of scanty information, especially scanty radar information.

In the context, there are a lot of holes in Rule 7. Terms like "appropriate to the prevailing circumstances and conditions", "Proper use...", etc would give a decent lawyer ample ammo to argue the merits of Rule 7.

I agree that radar should be used as conditions warrant, but I don't have my array automatically rotating every time I leave port- and I'll bet the vast majority of TF does the same.

The owner of the marine electronics shop in Bellingham had this to say when I asked him about the potential effects of radar emissions. The power from a modern recreational-type radar (Furuno, etc.) is so weak that the only way you could cause any negative effect on yourself is to put the radar in transmit and hold your head against the side of the radome for a week. Then..... maybe.... there might be some very slight effect on you.

However, he went on to say, better safe than sorry mount the radar antenna where people won't be in the path of the transmissions. In our case, the radome is well above the heads of anyone on deck or in the cabin. However as a practice we don't let people go up to the flying bridge if the radar is going to be transmitting, or if it's nice and people want to go up there we don't use the radar. We don't operate the boat from the flying bridge so the antenna's position is not a factor in actually operating the boat.

There are a couple of advantages to our lower antenna position so we have not been motivated to move it, plus the installation of both the antenna and the display on its retractable mount in the main cabin overhead are first rate and in the case of the display unit is very user-friendly. However if someone was contemplating adding a radar to a boat that didn't have it I would never recommend a flying-bridge-face location for the antenna.

Flying bridge face mounts were common in the "old days" when masts tended to be solid wood and the cable to the antenna was relatively huge. The flying bridge face was a good place to put the antenna and accommodating the thick, heavy cable was easy. That's why you tend to see these mounts on older boats only.

PS-- With regards to the issue of having a radar on all the time or not, the interpretation of the rule as explained to us by USCG officers a number of years ago is--- Use it if you think you need it. If you have a collision and you were not using your radar you will most likely be found to bear at least some of the responsibility, but the rule does not require you to have it on if you have it. It's totally your judgement call.

That said, we have our radar on all the time we are running. Not because we need it but by having it operating even in great visibility we are constantly seeing what vessels and navaids look like on the screen and can play with the range and bearing indicators if we want to. So we are very used to using it so on those occasions when we might come around a point and run right into patch of heavy, localized fog our transition to "instruments' is seamless and easy.

thurman said:

I'm a little more conversative. I feel that exposure to mircowave radiation is like having someone throw random sized stones at you from 100 yards away. There's little chance they'll hit you with a big one, but if they do I'll hurt. Microwaves can alter a cell's nucleus, and cancer is a possibility. Exposure to microwave energy won't automatically give you cancer, it just increases the risk. The more energy, the greater likelyhood that a bad thing will happen. This is a completly different problem than being cooked, which is simply adding enough Brownian motion (heat) due to the energy increase to cause tissue breakdown (ya get burned). Sperm, by the way, are particulary sensitive to heat, so if you are a male of child producing age, try not to leave the Boy Bits in the beam. I think I get enough radiation via random energy leakage from trons, and from cosmic radition from the universe, that I don't need to add to the total if I can prevent it. I wear a seatbelt too...

I've seen some radar installations on small boats that actually have the radar mounted at the level that would place the crotch of someone at the flybridge directly in the center of the beam. I would not operate the radar from that flying bridge!

Thurman
Who isn't a doctor, but does hold an FCC first class license with a ship's radar endorsement.

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http://www.furunousa.com/ProductDocuments/1835 1935 1945 Operator's Manual C 1-18-10.pdf

1. DESCRIPTION OF OPERATION​

1-52​

1.43 Sector Blank​

You must prevent the transmission in some areas to protect passengers and crew
from microwave radiation. Also, if the reflections of echoes from the mast appear on
the screen, you must prevent the transmission in that area. You can set two sectors.
1. Press the​

​

​

​

3. Use the Cursorpad (�� or ��) to select [Sect-Blank

"Also, by way of an FYI, it's my understanding the USCG requires that if a boat has a working radar that it be on when the boat is underway."


§ 164.01 Applicability.

(a) This part (except as specifically limited by this section) applies to each self-propelled vessel of 1600 or more gross tons (except as provided in paragraphs (c) and (d) of this section, or for foreign vessels described in § 164.02) when it is operating in the navigable waters of the United States except the St. Lawrence Seaway.

If your vessel is not more than 1600 gross tons, the regs you state concering radar do not apply.

If one has a "proper" mast, it is easy to avoid being scanned by one's own radar.



While having lunch at Sam's Cafe dock last year, we were relieved when a boat operator returned to his docked boat and turned off his radar.

Everyone has such great examples. One more. Having worked in a company that used RF to cut catheters, I was once warned about our RF welders/cutters that they could remove your child making ability. I kept my distance.

Anyway - I think I like those broadband radars, but have and like my Garmin equipment and Garmin doesn't make one. Anyone know of they have plans to make a broadband radar compatible with their other equipment ?

Phil Fill said:

Back when first developed the beam was so strong it boiled/kill birds flying through the beam. the first micro waves were Amanradar. So standing in front of a micro wave oven you are getting a small dose. However when not in use the radar should be on standby.

Click to expand...

That's how the microwave oven was invented. A Raytheon Engineer accidentally discovered that his new magnetron had melted a candy bar in his pocket.

It would seem to me all of the above discussion does seem to make quite strong case for one buying one of the new broadband 3 or 4G types now, if setting a new system up, as this is potential microwave danger is not an issue with that type, and the structure of many of our type of craft, (ok...Marks Coot excluded), does make setting the radar up high enough to be out of all possible harm's way, not so easy.

I never keep radar on while anyone is on bridge or sundeck. That's what salon pilot station is for and one of very few reasons I'll pilot from salon! Radar screen is in salon only.

I love to pilot from the bridge.

If I place new radar on boat I will also place new mast with radar mounted high and a screen on bridge console too...
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