East Coast Navigation Chart recomendations

Hi all,

Currently my boat has Navionics Platinum charts from 2006, CF906P, which is the Southeast and Bahamas. I'll be using a Raymarine E80 chartplotter and radar, also from 2006. I am adding the capability to use my laptop computer, as well as a yet to be purchased Android based Tablet.

My first thought was to update the Navionics charts. But today in talking with them, I realized that I would have to pay full price. So now I am having second thoughts as to what my plan should be and I thought this would be a good place to ask.

I also use Active Captain and am comfortable using the NOAA raster charts.

My cruising plan for the next 14 months will be coming up the east coast (starting 29 April), with some off shore shortcuts depending upon weather and conditions. NYC and Long Island sound for June, Maine and Nova Scotia for the summer. NY again in the fall. Middle Atlantic states for early fall, making my way to Bahamas by Thanksgiving thru January. Returning to NY during the Spring to prepare for the adventure.

Lastly, $$ is an issue, meaning I'll spend what must be spent, but not unless I need to.

So what are your thoughts?

1. Stick to plan A, just go with new navionics charts?
2. Go to a different brand (as long as compatible with Raymarine E80)
3. do nothing. Use the older charts in the chartplotter and use updated raster or vector based.
4. solutions I have not thought of (probably many)

Thanks in advance for your advice.

RIchard

I keep one of these on the flybridge at all times when underway: Maptech ChartKit With Companion CD

It's the primary nav tool with the chartplotter just showing current location. The chart books give me a much broader picture of what is around us without zooming and dragging cursors around.

I do have Intracoastal Waterway Chartbook Norfolk to Miami, 6th Edition (Intracoastal Waterway Chartbook: Norfolk, Virginia to Miami, Florida)

Richard

Tom.B said:

I keep one of these on the flybridge at all times when underway: Maptech ChartKit With Companion CD.

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I have that but use it mostly for selecting anchorages and seeing in general where I am. I have a networked Garmin system and use Garmin charts.

Updated electronic charts aren't much good if the paper charts they are copied from haven't been updated. Check to see the dates of the paper charts you are considering buying electronic versions of.

Wxx3 said:

I do have Intracoastal Waterway Chartbook Norfolk to Miami, 6th Edition (Intracoastal Waterway Chartbook: Norfolk, Virginia to Miami, Florida)

Richard

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The ICW-only chartbooks are about useless. Look at these Maptech books. Worst Marine carries them too.

rwidman said:

Updated electronic charts aren't much good if the paper charts they are copied from haven't been updated.

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I'm not really sure what that means. In the US there are pages of chart updates every week in the LNM. Electronic charts (both vector and raster) are updated continuously and made available on line for free. Raster charts are just electronic versions of the paper charts.

If you had a chartplotter that could use these products you could always have the absolute most current chart.

I think it's crazy that the the chartplotter manufacturers expect you to pay hundreds of dollars a year to get updates that your tax dollars already paid for and you can download for free, and even then most are only updated twice a year.

CaptTom said:

I'm not really sure what that means. .

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It means that there are not a couple thousand people out on the water taking readings every day and updating the charts. For example, much of the data for the river my marina is on dates back to the last century. There's little point in buying "new" charts with old data.

CaptTom said:

.................... I think it's crazy that the the chartplotter manufacturers expect you to pay hundreds of dollars a year to get updates that your tax dollars already paid for and you can download for free, and even then most are only updated twice a year.

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When someone comes out with an electronic chart plotter system that can be integrated with depth sounders, radar, auto pilots, etc. and uses free charts that are as good as the commercial versions available today, they will rise to the top of the market rather quickly. There seems to be something standing in the way though.

rwidman said:

When someone comes out with an electronic chart plotter system that can be integrated with depth sounders, radar, auto pilots, etc. and uses free charts that are as good as the commercial versions available today, they will rise to the top of the market rather quickly

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I've been saying that for years, but it hasn't happened yet.

The free charts are exactly as good as the commercial versions. At best, the commercial versions (in the US) are just free RNC and ENC charts repackaged into a proprietary media format.

Some vendors throw in other "bonus" information like wrecks, fishing spots and marina information.

But there are free and inexpensive apps for smart phones and laptops that can do all that already. I don't know anybody who thinks those little fish icons on the chart are where the fish are really being caught. And I'd rather have the (free) ActiveCaptain reviews than a list of marinas who paid to be included.

rwidman said:

There seems to be something standing in the way though.

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Yeah, us dummies who keep giving them money for something that they got for free.

I do it all with a small C-map based plotter to drive the boat. Polar View on my Netbook for my primary nav. It uses free vector and raster charts and has activecaptain on it. I also have nuticharts on my phone which has AC on it. I check the USCG charts for updates everyday so I'm always up to the second with current charts as nd activecaptain data. It's the cat's pajamas

Thanks. I had downloaded Polar View and Comm and like the way it interfaces with Active Captain. I have not yet hooked up my boat gps with this computer yet. Will try to do so next week.
Richard

CaptTom said:

The free charts are exactly as good as the commercial versions. At best, the commercial versions (in the US) are just free RNC and ENC charts repackaged into a proprietary media format.

Some vendors throw in other "bonus" information like wrecks, fishing spots and marina information.

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That's adding value to the original charts. Kind of like a farmer planting seeds and then selling the resulting corn for more than the original cost of the seeds.

I don't know anybody who thinks those little fish icons on the chart are where the fish are really being caught. .

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How do "little fish icons" fit into this thread?

rwidman said:

How do "little fish icons" fit into this thread?

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Some chart makers and charts put out by fish, game, and wildlife departments have those icons to represent what kind of fish reside in local waterways. Again, pretty useless for mariners.

Tom.B said:

Some chart makers and charts put out by fish, game, and wildlife departments have those icons to represent what kind of fish reside in local waterways. Again, pretty useless for mariners.

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Fine, but the thread is about navigation charts and chart plotters.

rwidman said:

Fine, but the thread is about navigation charts and chart plotters.

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My point exactly. What you are calling "added value", I see no value in.

Fish icons, wreck icons and listings of marinas that paid a fee to the chip maker are of no value to me.

I don't see the analogy to planting corn and selling the harvest.

It's more like going to a food pantry where they're giving away fresh corn for free, letting it go stale for a while, then canning it and selling it at a premium with your brand on the label.

Daddyo said:

Polar View on my Netbook for my primary nav. It uses free vector and raster charts and has activecaptain on it.

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I use PolarView with ActiveCaptain data as well. It's a fantastic combination. It would be great if someone would write an ActiveCaptain plugin for OpenCPN, which is another great product.

I'm seriously considering a marinized laptop or computer with a remote touch screen to replace my chartplotter. It would solve a lot of problems. GPS input is easy via a USB "puck" antenna. Built-in Ethernet to accept NMEA data. Ability to constantly update software (and charts, in keeping with the subject of this thread.) I suspect it would be cheaper than a high-end plotter. And I could use it from both stations. We're even getting to the point where it could replace the radar display. Maybe.

One issue would be getting a daylight-viewable screen for the flybridge. Another would be the speed at which these things go obsolete. In five years there might not even BE a laptop or desktop computer market.

Panasonic Toughbook?

Tom.B said:

Panasonic Toughbook?

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I've actually used a few models of ToughBook. They are pretty rugged, and there are lots of options to choose from. The ones I've seen probably wouldn't do well in sunlight, like on a flybridge. Then again, I was thinking of a dedicated touch screen monitor, and leaving the "computer" part down below. There are waterproof computer-in-a-box type solutions too. None of this is cheap. Then again, neither are chartplotters and MFDs.

CaptTom said:

My point exactly. What you are calling "added value", I see no value in................

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To each his own. The added value is in making the chart work with the plotter. If you see no value in that, fine. It doesn't bother me.

CaptTom said:

I............. In five years there might not even BE a laptop or desktop computer market.

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There will be marine MFDs and a market for them.

Capt Tom et al,

thanks for the great debate. Exactly what I needed.
Helps me appreciate the inexpensive option of Polar View and Active Captain.

Also, confirms my idea of using laptop for planning and navigation in pilot house in addition to Raymarine and get a readable tablet for fly bridge and portability.

Now, just have to get GPS data to laptop,

Richard

Wxx3 said:

Now, just have to get GPS data to laptop

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Amazon.com: GlobalSat BU-353 USB GPS Navigation Receiver: GPS & Navigation

So....

After having my 15-year-old Garmin 230 since I got the boat, I went out and bought the Garmin 740s. But, I have a vague idea I want to purchase the blue chart g2 add-on for my area NC, but would like to hear if anyone has had experience with this and what they think. Is this best? Are there cheaper options? Better options?

Thanks,

I came to marathon key from va. All I used was an iPad with a new Garmin software called blue chart mobile which is compatable with active captain and it was only $30 I'm thinking of buying another iPad for back up. I have a couple of other software navigation programs along with weather and my email of course. I have a Verizon phone number for it and it updates itself. Along the east coast I was hardly without service. The software works fine without service as the new iPads has a GPS built in.

rwidman said:

To each his own. The added value is in making the chart work with the plotter. If you see no value in that, fine. It doesn't bother me.

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Agreed that this isn't a bother one way or the other. Based on the market, I'm obviously in the minority and you're in the majority here.

Maybe it's the cheapskate in me, or my 30+ years in Information Technology, but I see it differently.

The company has to program their hardware to read at least one chart format. There are open-source (free) routines to read the standard chart formats, so that should be easy.

The electronic charts are also free.

The solution here seems simple to me, but again, I'm an IT guy, not a business major.

The marketing folks have found that we will pay extra for a commodity if they can "brand" it somehow. Frank Purdue comes to mind. Or when I'm down at the fuel depot watching all the trucks with different gas station brand logos filling up from the same tank.

The chartplotter manufacturers have figured this out. They pay programmers to write routines that encrypt the free chart formats into their own proprietary format. Then they load that data onto chips that only fit into their hardware. They throw in some fish icons to make us feel like we're getting "added value".

All I need to navigate are the free charts, updated regularly, and something to display them. Encryption, proprietary chip form factors and extraneous data don't add value for me.

I would buy from a company who would sell me a chartplotter or MFD without trying to hook me for a lifetime of chart updates. Otherwise, a tablet or dedicated laptop is the best option.

About OpenCPN

Features

• BSBv3 raster and S57 ENC chart support.
• CM93 vector chart support, with per cell offset corrections.
• IHO S52 compliant display of S57 vector charts.
• "BSB4" and "nv-chart" support through plugins.
• Single-chart and Quilted display modes.
• North-up, Course-up and Chart-up display modes.
• Moving-map display mode.
• Route navigation with ship tracking functions.
• Waypoint navigation.
• Dashboard for configurable on-screen display of ship's NMEA data.
• NMEA 0183 GPS interface at selectable baud rate.
• OpenGL support for enhanced performance on modern hardware.
• Advance NMEA message handling structure, with built in multiplexer.
• Autopilot output support.
• AIS input with full target tracking and collision alerting.
• AIS support for SART, DSC and GPSGate Buddies.
• Anchor watch/alarm functions.
• GRIB file input and display for weather forecasting.
• GPX Waypoint, Track and Route input and output file support.
• Tide and Current prediction and display by location.
• Route planning with tidal support.
• Builtin great-circle routing.
• Integrated weather routing through qtVlm.
• GPX Layers for annotation of charts.
• A selection of display themes.
• A growing number of plugins. Google Earth, World Magnetic Variation, Voyage Data Recorder, AIS -radar, SAR and a LogBook.
• Multi-language support.

NOAA's Chart Update Service

From this site, you can access the same chart updates that NOAA uses to update their Print-on-Demand paper charts, Raster Navigational Charts (NOAA RNC®), and Electronic Navigational Charts (NOAA ENC®). This site also provides advance notification of chart updates affecting hazards to navigation and other information considered essential for safe navigation, including:

• Channel conditions,
• Bridge and cable clearances, and
• Regulatory changes that NOAA has identified and forwarded for publication in both the LNM and the NM.

Dec-Apr (2200 miles) on a laptop problem free...

Ben said:

So....

After having my 15-year-old Garmin 230 since I got the boat, I went out and bought the Garmin 740s. But, I have a vague idea I want to purchase the blue chart g2 add-on for my area NC, but would like to hear if anyone has had experience with this and what they think. Is this best? Are there cheaper options? Better options?

Thanks,

Click to expand...

I've had a Garmin 740 not 740s for a couple of years and love it. I've never used Garmin's g2 add on. If funds are available get the add on but I've never thought I needed anything more than the imbedded charts already on the plotter.

For you Garmin folks, Active Captain has just been added to Garmin's homeport software. It's a free upgrade if you already have homeport.

I recently installed a Raymarine E90W plotter and plan on using it as my primary plotter with the Garmin as a back up. Raymarine's PC software called Voyage Planner sticks. Homeport is much better and I use it to plan routes and upload them to both the Raymarine and Garmin plotters.

For anyone who has a Garmin or Raymarine plotter I highly suggest you purchase Garmin's homeport software. 29 bucks I think and with Active Captain now on it, it's hard to beat. However one note of caution; Raymarines Voyage Planner software will only accept a route with a max of 50 waypoints if you are importing from other software. I talked to the software developers for Raymarine and they are aware of this limitation and have no plans on fixing it.

Ben said:

So....

After having my 15-year-old Garmin 230 since I got the boat, I went out and bought the Garmin 740s. But, I have a vague idea I want to purchase the blue chart g2 add-on for my area NC, but would like to hear if anyone has had experience with this and what they think. Is this best? Are there cheaper options? Better options?

Thanks,

Click to expand...

You are thinking of the G2 Vision card, right? Your plotter already has charts for the entire USA coastal areas, right?

I have a pair of Garmin 5208s and after a while I sprung for the G2 Vision card. For me, it wasn't worth the cost. There are photos of marinas and such which can be a small help if they are current. The G2 Vision card enables the auto guidance feature which in theory will plot a safe route for you from point A to point B, avoiding land, shallows, etc. It didn't work for me at all. It often suggested a detour that was several miles out of the way.

The G2 Vision card disables the internal chart when it's in the plotter. On a trip, I left the G2 Vision coverage area and the chart went blank. I had to go to the lower helm, remove the card, and reset everything.

Your experience may differ, but for me it wasn't worth the money. There are no other options, cheaper or better except for the internal charts you already have.

I have been using Garmin's HomePort since it came out and the predecessor, MapSource before that. HomePort will read the charts copied from your plotter and you can sit at your PC and plan your routes, fuels stops, and anchorages and then upload them to your plotter.

A point was made above about limitations on the number of turns in a route. My 5280 is limited to 250 turns so I often have to break routes into segments. You might not have to do that in some areas, but for the AICW, you do.

Once I have uploaded my routes into my plotter, I can hand the wheel over to my wife and take a nap. She knows to believe what she sees on the water over the plotted route and will wake me if she doesn't understand anything.

rwidman said:

The G2 Vision card disables the internal chart when it's in the plotter. On a trip, I left the G2 Vision coverage area and the chart went blank. I had to go to the lower helm, remove the card, and reset everything.

Your experience may differ, but for me it wasn't worth the money. There are no other options, cheaper or better except for the internal charts you already have.

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Whoa. Very critical feedback. Thank you Captain Widman. You just saved me a future impulse buy. I will look to manage and download routes with some of the cheaper/freeware options available.

Thanks again! Owe you a beer or ten.