Butt splice - 8 ga
- Thread starter meridian
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Yes, but you would have done better to disconnect one end, pull it out of the way, and then reconnect it.
It's hard to find a crimper for #8 connectors.
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Meridian, I'd send you mine on loan, but you could probably buy it for the round trip shipping charges.
Hydraulic Wire Crimping Tool
Hydraulic Wire Crimping Tool
psneeld
Guru
I would be tempted to replace the harness...expensive yes...but depending where I had to crimp...it might be worth it in the long run.
If you can get the harness out...West Marines will let you use their crimpers.
If you have to do it in place, either butt splices or use rings and a terminal block/enclosure in case you every have to break it apart again.
Some auto parts stores lend/rent tools...check with them if you need lug crimpers.
If you can get the harness out...West Marines will let you use their crimpers.
If you have to do it in place, either butt splices or use rings and a terminal block/enclosure in case you every have to break it apart again.
Some auto parts stores lend/rent tools...check with them if you need lug crimpers.
Shoalwaters
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He will still have to have a way to crimp #8 connectors and he will have twice as many to buy and make, plus the (insolated) buss bar.
skipperdude
Guru
How about a butt splice a cold chisel a hammer and some solder.
Works for me .
Then again I do many things with what I have around.
Sd
Works for me .
Then again I do many things with what I have around.
Sd
I don't know about the cold chisel and hammer. Doesn't seem like that would crimp the connector correctly. Solder? Nope. Not on boat power wires/cables.
psneeld
Guru
Using a terminal buss makes sense if you think disconnecting it ever again may happen...no matter how many more connectors or the price.
Using a cold chisel and hammer is abut the same as using the $50-$60 dollar hammer crimper West Marine sells...you may actually do it better. But nothing like a good crimper...they are pretty impressive to what they do to the wire and connector connection.
Even ABYC says soldering is OK as long as a mechanical fastening is also employed and suitable support is provided.
Using a cold chisel and hammer is abut the same as using the $50-$60 dollar hammer crimper West Marine sells...you may actually do it better. But nothing like a good crimper...they are pretty impressive to what they do to the wire and connector connection.
Even ABYC says soldering is OK as long as a mechanical fastening is also employed and suitable support is provided.
Wrong on both counts. You need a die for a proper crimp. There's no way to control the chisel/hammer combination. You might not get a good crimp (you won't anyway without a die) and you might cut right through the connector.
Soldering turns stranded wire into solid wire. Not good.
psneeld
Guru
OK I'm wrong and lot's of others with the same opinion as both of us..... But ABYC does discuss soldering without dismissing it and there are plenty of electrical connections out there that weren't made with a proper die including the mickey mouse hammer crimper I described...and work just fine.
Sure there's perfect way of trying to do things...well heck I know a lot of pros with the best tools that still screw up.
I give real world advice...whether it helps someone or not is better than always quoting some theoretical solution or what some people do because they WANT to as to what will work just fine anyway.
"Solder shall not be the sole means of mechanical connection in any circuit.”11.16.3.7.
http://www.marinco.com/page/abyc-standards
Wrong on both accounts...lets let the jury decide.
Sure there's perfect way of trying to do things...well heck I know a lot of pros with the best tools that still screw up.
I give real world advice...whether it helps someone or not is better than always quoting some theoretical solution or what some people do because they WANT to as to what will work just fine anyway.
"Solder shall not be the sole means of mechanical connection in any circuit.”11.16.3.7.
http://www.marinco.com/page/abyc-standards
Wrong on both accounts...lets let the jury decide.
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CPseudonym
Moderator Emeritus
I have two technicians at work that perform identical duties. One is a perfectionist and the other is not. Both of them perform their duties in exemplary fashion demonstrating complete competence in the trade.
The perfectionist has a tendency to take a long time to get a routine task done that the other performs rather quickly. They both have their strengths and weaknesses and are both well liked by their peers.
When the crap hits the fan and an emergency pops up I'll say this, it ain't the perfectionist that gets the call. Nothing wrong with his skill to perform the repair but sometimes ya just gotta get stuff done in a timely and cost effective manner.
One can not think outside the box and the other can. Like I said though, there ain't nothing wrong with either of them they just go about things differently is all.
The perfectionist has a tendency to take a long time to get a routine task done that the other performs rather quickly. They both have their strengths and weaknesses and are both well liked by their peers.
When the crap hits the fan and an emergency pops up I'll say this, it ain't the perfectionist that gets the call. Nothing wrong with his skill to perform the repair but sometimes ya just gotta get stuff done in a timely and cost effective manner.
One can not think outside the box and the other can. Like I said though, there ain't nothing wrong with either of them they just go about things differently is all.
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Is soldering OK if you use a wire nut as a mechanical connection?
Is soldering OK if you use a wire nut as a mechanical connection?
No. How are you going to solder a wirenut without melting it?
The problem with soldering stranded wire or cable is that the molten solder wicks along the wire away from the joint and creates what amounts to solid wire. The point where the wire turns from solid to stranded is a place where the wire may fail from vibration.
In the OP's situation, we're not talking about an emergency repair (where wire nuts or even twisting and taping without soldering would do the trick until a proper repair could be made), we're talking about a permanent repair to the man's boat. A repair that should be done right the first time.
Being wrong once in a while is nothing to be ashamed about. None of us can know everything about everything.
psneeld
Guru
Here is my standard reply when a thread is joined by some posting WNFC.
II you want the textbook answer read the manufacturer’s directions, a book on boat maintenance and repair or listen to the guys who regurgitate exactly the same.
If you came to the internet to learn alternative, progressive, money saving, time saving, or just sometimes “better than” ideas, usage or application…then read away and decide for yourself.
Any poster that say’s some post is wrong or not acceptable or not to some “voluntary standard”…well that’s their opinion. Unless someone posts a link to a reasonable third party expert…then you decide if you can decipher backgrounds, practical experience in the boating world and just plain old common sense being posted.
Enjoy your boating and have at it!!!
II you want the textbook answer read the manufacturer’s directions, a book on boat maintenance and repair or listen to the guys who regurgitate exactly the same.
If you came to the internet to learn alternative, progressive, money saving, time saving, or just sometimes “better than” ideas, usage or application…then read away and decide for yourself.
Any poster that say’s some post is wrong or not acceptable or not to some “voluntary standard”…well that’s their opinion. Unless someone posts a link to a reasonable third party expert…then you decide if you can decipher backgrounds, practical experience in the boating world and just plain old common sense being posted.
Enjoy your boating and have at it!!!
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psneeld
Guru
Being wrong once in a while is nothing to be ashamed about. None of us can know everything about everything.
Guess YOU missed the link to the ABYC standard.
FF
Guru
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The requirement is for a splice or connection to be made both mechanically and electricallyand insulated.
Get a piece of copper tubing where the ID matches the OD of the 8ga.
Put the wire in the tubing , hammer it flat , solder it , and cover with shrink tubing.
Not as good as a replacement wire but close enough for a couple of decades.
Get a piece of copper tubing where the ID matches the OD of the 8ga.
Put the wire in the tubing , hammer it flat , solder it , and cover with shrink tubing.
Not as good as a replacement wire but close enough for a couple of decades.
IslandEagle
Senior Member
Gents,
You might want to read this paper: http://www.newark.com/pdfs/techarticles/tyco/ET.pdf
The gist of it is that a proper crimped connection can be superior to a soldered one. Why? I quote:
While other methods are considered strong mechanical connections with high-performance electrical properties, crimping provides strength under constant load in tension and severe vibration. Crimp connections tend not to crack or creep under sustained loads. Fatigue is not an issue. Since the mechanical performance of a crimp is robust and sound, the electrical properties are less likely to degrade. In short, static heating is avoided when good crimping practice is followed.
Soldering also has the disadvantage that it will compromise the insulation adjacent to the solder joint. Crimping is the recommended connection method for military and aerospace use.
Here are my recommended steps in ensuring a long-lasting, electrically-superior connection:
1) Use high-quality tinned wire.
2) Use a heavy-gauge tinned terminal.
3) Use the correct crimper for the gauge, and ensure that the crimper crimps the entire circumference.
4) For high-current applications, finish the joint with adhesive heat shrink to exclude all oxygen.
Here's my main DC electrical switchboard. It's now been ten years since I installed it, and there has not be one single problem with a connection.
Scott Welch
Island Eagle
You might want to read this paper: http://www.newark.com/pdfs/techarticles/tyco/ET.pdf
The gist of it is that a proper crimped connection can be superior to a soldered one. Why? I quote:
While other methods are considered strong mechanical connections with high-performance electrical properties, crimping provides strength under constant load in tension and severe vibration. Crimp connections tend not to crack or creep under sustained loads. Fatigue is not an issue. Since the mechanical performance of a crimp is robust and sound, the electrical properties are less likely to degrade. In short, static heating is avoided when good crimping practice is followed.
Soldering also has the disadvantage that it will compromise the insulation adjacent to the solder joint. Crimping is the recommended connection method for military and aerospace use.
Here are my recommended steps in ensuring a long-lasting, electrically-superior connection:
1) Use high-quality tinned wire.
2) Use a heavy-gauge tinned terminal.
3) Use the correct crimper for the gauge, and ensure that the crimper crimps the entire circumference.
4) For high-current applications, finish the joint with adhesive heat shrink to exclude all oxygen.
Here's my main DC electrical switchboard. It's now been ten years since I installed it, and there has not be one single problem with a connection.
Scott Welch
Island Eagle
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psneeld
Guru
Never disagreed that proper crimping is the best way...it's just not the only way.
My first post suggested where to get the proper crimping tool...
I was just offering support to Skipperdude's suggestion when he was incorrectly corrected.
He like many other's here aren't always around the corner of West Marine.
Just like post #18 says.....
My first post suggested where to get the proper crimping tool...
I was just offering support to Skipperdude's suggestion when he was incorrectly corrected.
He like many other's here aren't always around the corner of West Marine.
Just like post #18 says.....
It's the only "best way". I think when people come her looking for advice, we should try to give them only good advice.
In this thread, the OP already decided that crimping was how he should repair his wire. He was just looking for confirmation, but instead he got several bad alternatives and a bunch of bickering. That's not what makes for a good forum.
River Cruiser
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Try a welding supply shop they will have a twist- lock connector. These are used to attach lengths of cable when you need longer leads. Good luck
FF
Guru
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I think when people come her looking for advice, we should try to give them only good advice.
Choices and concepts are better , as "Best" frequently requires special parts and special tools .
Special everything means ordering/flying in parts and bribing the customs guy .
A repair that works and can be done underway , in nowhere, can always be replaced sometime for perfection.
Choices and concepts are better , as "Best" frequently requires special parts and special tools .
Special everything means ordering/flying in parts and bribing the customs guy .
A repair that works and can be done underway , in nowhere, can always be replaced sometime for perfection.
Here's the original post:
Go ahead and give him a reply. Stop defending bad suggestions.
If you are in "nowhere", you won't have a soldering iron or a piece of copper tubing to fit the wire. You won't have a cold chisel. Strip it, twist it together as best you can, then insulate it with tape and hold it up away from metal or moving parts. Do a proper repair ASAP.
__________________
Go ahead and give him a reply. Stop defending bad suggestions.
If you are in "nowhere", you won't have a soldering iron or a piece of copper tubing to fit the wire. You won't have a cold chisel. Strip it, twist it together as best you can, then insulate it with tape and hold it up away from metal or moving parts. Do a proper repair ASAP.
__________________
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psneeld
Guru
I have all the above.
Sounds like FF does.
Sounds like Skipperdude does.
Sounds like many cruisers should because in a pinch, many ways work safely .....so we thought we might suggest some for the rest of the audience.
It's not like everyone in this forum stays TOTALLY on topic every thread.
And when they can...use good connectors and a proper crimper...maybe with or without a terminal block for future disconnects...
Sounds like FF does.
Sounds like Skipperdude does.
Sounds like many cruisers should because in a pinch, many ways work safely .....so we thought we might suggest some for the rest of the audience.
It's not like everyone in this forum stays TOTALLY on topic every thread.
And when they can...use good connectors and a proper crimper...maybe with or without a terminal block for future disconnects...
