going north from FL to NY end April

Hi all,

I'll be heading north along the ICW from Ft. Pierce, FL on 29 April.

I'll have Dutch friends visiting and helping move north. I'd like to get to NY relatively quickly, though want my visitors to have a trip they will like too.

What are your thoughts about how many miles I can average per day?
I was thinking about 80 to 90 miles, but thought i better ask all of you who have done this many times before.

Air draft is 26'

Thanks in advance.
Richard

Cruising at 6 -7K about 60 miles per day is fairly common as bridges can slow the progress, as will no wake Zones.

Running "outside" will speed up the run , but there will be 2 inlets to run and of course a calm weather requirement.

In April the days are long , so a dawn to dusk operation will be required for a quick trip.

Really depends on you. How fast? Marinas or anchorages? Only inside? How rough will you tolerate? Are you willing to leave or arrive in the dark?

If you actually want to see some places and walk around before dinner, you are cutting the cruising day short by 3-4 hours.

There are so many variables it may take a bit to narrow down but I would say 75 statute miles is about as many as you will do and still make it seem more like fun than work...that's running 7 knots and 10 hour days with a couple slowdowns in there for bridges, slow tie ups, etc.

I would plan for about 60-70 statute miles each day. This lets you get the anchor down or tied up at a marina by 5:00 so you can enjoy a cocktail in a quiet cove, a walk into town or whatever. Any faster is work, not fun IMO.

David

thanks guys.
THis is prefect and the insight I need. Will probably aim for about 70 miles per day.

yes, I'd like to be anchored and cocktailing my sunset, but am also willing to go outside tolerate not so smooth conditions, if it means knocking off a chunk of ICW that is particularly boring or slow.
Any shortcuts I should know about?

Some killer stretches with foul currents for a big chunk can be the Stono River going into Charleston from the South. The Waccamaw River leaving Georgetown, SC going up behind Myrtle Beach, up the Cape Fear River instead of cutting through frying Pan Shoals. With the wrong tide and good river current...some of these places will have over 2 knots and up to 5 knots of current on the ebb (ideallly, the Stono can be ridden flood then Ebb like I did and cut 2 hours off the run...but that day was just luck in timing). You never get completely the reverse because of the river current but you can get slack or a little better. But timing is everything.

Going outside does help with currents...but often by the time you add going out and in the inlets...you don't gain much. Outside, if you have the advantage of autopilot and it's calm...it's a less fatiguing day as many operators are whiteknuckled way too much worrying about going aground.

Bridges just north of Wrightsville Beach (Wilmington, NC) are tough to time so many will take that run outside to Morehead City/Beaufort. Plus the Bogue Sounds are those long stretches with shallows on both sides for miles.

A couple beers, chartbook, yellow sticky pad and 4-5 hours spent with someone who has made the run numerous times but at least once in a slower boat would be worth it's weight in gold....

If you don't take at least a full day to tour Savannah, GS, Beaufort, Charleston, and Georgetown, SC, Annapolis and Baltimore, MD, (there are other good spots, of course) you will regret it later and you're friends will feel like a hired but unpaid crew.

You'll be spending a few thousand dollars in fuel and other expenses, take advantage of the opportunity to see the sights.

My advice: Buy a couple of the cruising guides and study them before and during the trip. You'll have recommendations on problem areas, things to do and see, and important phone numbers (like marinas and fuel docks).

BTW: The Waccamaw River is one of the prettiest portions of the AICW. Don't just blow through it, take your time and drink in the beauty.

Wxx3 said:

Hi all,

I'll be heading north along the ICW from Ft. Pierce, FL on 29 April.

I'll have Dutch friends visiting and helping move north. I'd like to get to NY relatively quickly, though want my visitors to have a trip they will like too.

What are your thoughts about how many miles I can average per day?
I was thinking about 80 to 90 miles, but thought i better ask all of you who have done this many times before.

Air draft is 26'

Thanks in advance.
Richard

Click to expand...

You can do 80-90, but after the third day, it will feel like work. Boating is supposed to be fun. If you're not just moving the boat for work purposes, plan some breathers in there. My longest day was the first day I had the boat. Did 105 miles in 15 hours from Solomons Maryland to Norfolk, Virginia. Had my family and in laws along. I was so excited, but it could have been dangerous too, because I didn't know my boat yet. Plus it's my first diesel boat, so double the mystery. I started out in the dark and didn't know half my instruments or what worked or didn't.

Left dock at 4am from an area I didn't know in the dark. Soon dropped anchor at 430am just out of good common sense. When twilight broke, pulled anchor and got going. I was a bit pumped up...

So we made Norfolk about 730 in the evening and it was a good long day of learning the boat. Dropped anchor and thought about the day with my family. Nice first day.

Not sure I would want long stretches like that for 15 consecutive days, which is at least what you would need to do. 80 is not a bad day, but 10 straight days of 80 could wear on you.

The only way to combine the 2 concepts of seeing places and pressing hard is to eat out every night...which on a delivery schedule tends to happen anyway for paid crews.

If you push till dusk every night and then eat out (or quick dinner on the boat)...you still get a short walk around the "main parts" of where you wind up. Surely it's not "seeing a place" but many of the bigger places you don't really "see" in less than several days to a week anyhow. So...I rushed back to Jersey from Ft Lauderdale on my trip after purchase...and it took 20 days pushing pretty hard and only losing one half day to weather (pretty lucky).

While I agree that enjoying the trip would take at least 2 months at trawler speeds....you still won't see every spot and many you'll only get the snapshot of anyway. So you really still have to decide what you want to see and sharpen your pencil if you are going to pick an ANY ETA at your destination.

I will leave Marathon, FL tomorrow on the going solo in a slow boat, fast version of the trip though with a layover in Deltaville, VA and a final destination of Boothbay Harbor Maine. I should be outside on many of the legs especially the ones where a real advantage is gained in avoiding unpleasant or slow spots on the ICW. I will be posting on another thread "underway today" complete with AIS so you might want to tag along to get some ideas. Have fun!!!

Daddyo said:

I will leave Marathon, FL tomorrow on the going solo in a slow boat, fast version of the trip though with a layover in Deltaville, VA and a final destination of Boothbay Harbor Maine. I should be outside on many of the legs especially the ones where a real advantage is gained in avoiding unpleasant or slow spots on the ICW. I will be posting on another thread "underway today" complete with AIS so you might want to tag along to get some ideas. Have fun!!!

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Where are the most useful places to go outside? Are there currents (I know the Gulf Stream, but I'm thinking locally) and bodies of water that make outside more advantageous?

Thanks again.

I want to get home; but I don't want to make it a grind.

I think as I plan it out, I'll plan on about 30 days, the whole month of May, but most of all I'll stay flexible. When pretty, I'll take my time and enjoy, if ugly, i'll press on.

I do need to be in Long Island Sound for June and will depart for Maine by July 4th.

Ben said:

Where are the most useful places to go outside? Are there currents (I know the Gulf Stream, but I'm thinking locally) and bodies of water that make outside more advantageous?

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All of Georgia, SC and NC south of Beaufort can have difficult currents. In general there is a slight northerly current in the ocean. Georgia is tops on my list of places to avoid because of the extra distance, bugs, boring vistas and tides. Popular outside jaunts are FL coast, St Aug to Charleston, Charleston to Beaufort, NC, Cape May to Sandy Hook. I once faced an opposing tide for three straight days in SC ????

Ben said:

Where are the most useful places to go outside? Are there currents (I know the Gulf Stream, but I'm thinking locally) and bodies of water that make outside more advantageous?

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Daddyo may have some more accurate info...but usually the coastal currents aren't very strong (negligible) except for the Gulf Stream and unless you are willing to run pretty far offshore...by Ft Pierce, FL it starts to angle off. You can pick it up again as you near Hatteras, but again you'll be running more than 50 off the beach so only good for overnight or multiple night at sea runs.

Not to say if you can get a good feel of some local coastal currents you could save 1/2 to a full knot...but I have never found a reliabe source and most are tidal influenced...so the timing becomes the same issue as the intracoastal runs...wierd timing sometimes. Most people assume that running offshore, except for the Stream, is currentless (as often wind current is just as much)

"I'd like to be anchored and cocktailing my sunset,"

That requires the anchor and sun to come up together.

No big deal, the AP steers as you drink your first cup o joe underway.

I left Fort Pierce on my 36 Jeanneu sailboat I took a straight line north to Charleston The gulf stream gave me a great lift the trip took about 50 Hrs.
There was a lot of marine life a long the way. This cut off half of Fla all of Georgia and S.C.
Bert

When comparing inside distances with off the coast distances you need to find out how many miles from the marina or anchorage that you stayed overnight at to the sea bouy and how many miles in from the sea bouy you must go to spend the next night.

ocean said:

I left Fort Pierce on my 36 Jeanneu sailboat I took a straight line north to Charleston The gulf stream gave me a great lift the trip took about 50 Hrs.
There was a lot of marine life a long the way. This cut off half of Fla all of Georgia and S.C.
Bert

Click to expand...

If you ended up in Charleston, you didn't cut off all of SC.

After doing it inside a few times here are the areas we skipped by using the ocean:

Virtually all of Florida, but particularly south of Ft. Pierce

St. Catherines sound to Wassaw Sound.. a much nicer trip outside and along the Wilmington River, IMO

North Carolina, Little River to Cape Fear, then Masonboro Inlet to Beaufort Inlet.
New Jersey.

In a KK 42 you have what, an 8 knot boat. 60nm seems nicer to me, we dawdled ourselves, so many pretty places to explore and hang out on the hook. The coastal/ICW towns are wonderful in GA, SC and NC and much of the Chessie, but a car is a better way to see them in my opinion. If towns are your thing, St. Marys, Brunswick, Savannah, Beaufort SC, C-Town, Georgetown SC (perfect name for a city), Southport NC, Morehead City/ Beaufort NC, New Bern Ocracoke, Manteo, and a plethora on the Chessie, Cape May are not to be missed if that's your thing.

SRy I meant half of SC

psneeld said:

Daddyo may have some more accurate info...but usually the coastal currents aren't very strong (negligible) except for the Gulf Stream and unless you are willing to run pretty far offshore

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So... By that logic, you could run offshore in a southerly direction inside the stream without a counter current. That's encouraging. Assuming decent weather, of course. I've been to the stream in fishing charters, not so sure I'd want to in my single screw trawler... The "what if" is a bit of a concern unless boat, engine, and fuel were perfect, which mine is not yet.

Been following Daddyo's trip with considerable interest lately. He's been very kind and helpful with the photos and accounts.

I think there is some perspective we need to understand, Ben. I don't know that our little 35' 80's trawlers are meant for outside journeys like these. It's one thing for guys with 48' Defevers or 53' Hatteras and even small sailboats (not picking on you guys specifically) to say what an easy hop it is from Jacksonville to Savanna or Charleston, however, at six knots, a journey like that will take days in our boats. I am not saying that, given the right conditions, we couldn't make the trip, but in my opinion, it's a big risk. Our boats are not fast enough or stable enough to survive out there if something (like the weather) turns on us suddenly.

Perhaps I am being TOO cautious. Perhaps I am underestimating what sea conditions our boats can handle, but the endless hours staring at a horizontal line between the sky and water doesn't sound like much fun to me. It sounds boring.

I guess this is the voice of inexperienced paranoia talking. I want to see everything the ICW has to offer and I want to soak it all in.

Tom-

Tom -

I'm not talking about 80 miles offshore to the Gulf stream. More like 3 miles to avoid shallow spots and switchbacks in bad ICW conditions.

Our PO regularly took our boat deep into the Bahamas and spent summers in Martha's Vineyard. The very same boat pictured above. Truly, there are safe times and good reasons to go offshore in prudent ways.

The Pamlico Sound is good prep for offshore - even more so because you lose sight of land for a short period.

Cheers

Going offshore in a coastal cruiser is a little like going up in an airplane. You will eventually have to land it. It this case it will be negotiating an inlet. While conditions offshore may be tolerable, the conditions in an inlet may be intolerable. Just be sure that you know how to handle the boat and time the tides for the inlet. East coast inlets can be very bad. Negotiating a breaking inlet with a slow boat has a huge pucker factor.

Moonstruck said:

While conditions offshore may be tolerable, the conditions in an inlet may be intolerable.

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This is exactly why I haven't tried it yet. Whenever I have thought I wanted to plan a jump from Beaufort to Masonboro to see if we could do it, I would leave one end at slack or flood, but then estimate having ebbing or the wrong wind at the other.

Be aware, too, Ben, that while the boat might handle it, the conversation you, me, and your wife had this weekend proves that her tolerance is equally as limited as Bess'. Is any outside passage worth it if you spend hours in fear for your life or just uncomfortably tired of trying to stay standing in rough seas? Moreover, if you find yourself waiting out weather for several days, what time have you saved?

To me, outside passages are for big(er) and more capable boats than mine. Do I *want* to be able to? Yes. Am I heartbroken that I live in too much fear to do it? Also, yes. But do I care? Not even a little. There is lots of time to increase our seamanship in rough seas. With just four years behind us, we are still stone-cold n00bz at this.

Tom.B said:

I don't know that our little 35' 80's trawlers are meant for outside journeys like these.....They're not!

however, at six knots, a journey like that will take days in our boats....

Our boats are not fast enough or stable enough to survive out there if something (like the weather) turns on us suddenly....You are correct!

Perhaps I am being TOO cautious. (You're not!) Perhaps I am underestimating what sea conditions our boats can handle, (Again, you are not!) but the endless hours staring at a horizontal line between the sky and water doesn't sound like much fun to me. It sounds boring. (It is!)

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This post is indicative of a skipper who is aware of what SA is. (Situation Awareness) You are not afraid to take on outside open water cruises. You're SA has kicked in and you are very aware what the trip could result in. Most skippers know all the things that could happen but few have the "guts" to admit that neither their equipment (nor themselves) are up to what might happen. I'll take Don Moon (Moonstruck) as an example. I'll bet that few sailors on this forum have his open water experience. Is Don not cognizant of what could happen on one of his crossings and blindly casts off on another roll of the dice? His SA is very acute and his equipment and experience are an excellent match as to what he might encounter. His boat is a quality built 42 footer and fast! He pays attention to the best source of weather info he can find and last but not least, he knows when to stay inside or at anchor! Don's SA and what's needed to mitigate it are excellent and my hat's off to him.

Moonstruck said:

Going offshore in a coastal cruiser is a little like going up in an airplane. You will eventually have to land it. It this case it will be negotiating an inlet. While conditions offshore may be tolerable, the conditions in an inlet may be intolerable. Just be sure that you know how to handle the boat and time the tides for the inlet. East coast inlets can be very bad. Negotiating a breaking inlet with a slow boat has a huge pucker factor.

Click to expand...

The speed of the boat is one of the main reasons we now have a flybridge under contract with twin fuely 7.4 versus a small diesel trawler.

The idea of being caught offshore in a squall or while crossing the Gulf Stream here in Florida is not on my favored list.

We decided to forgo fuel economy for peace of mind and safety.

Tom.B said:

Be aware, too, Ben, that while the boat might handle it, the conversation you, me, and your wife had this weekend proves that her tolerance is equally as limited as Bess'. Is any outside passage worth it if you spend hours in fear for your life or just uncomfortably tired of trying to stay standing in rough seas?

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Tom -
1. Your argument assumes that I am actively seeking hazards. This is not the case whatsoever. In any way. At all.
2. Deb was relating a single event where we had a rough weather day. You're using a private conversation to leverage a public argument. C'mon, Man.
3. We go out of Beaufort inlet continuously during the summer to make Cape Lookout as well as the Pamlico crossing to Ocracoke. When it's rough, we don't go.
4. There are inlets I would never go in my power configuration or serious weather. At all. Period. But I've been through a few that are well engineered in decent weather and manageable currents, even when they've gone against me. 3.5 knots not ideal, but not fatal either.

As a Steelers fan, you should appreciate the words of the great(?) Terry Bradshaw. "I may be dumb, but I'm not stupid!"

Common sense always prevails.

In my 34 marine trader I could run from Ft lauderdale to the very top of the chesapeake in 180hr running time 15 to 18 days singlehanded sun up to sun down anchoring every night I find when I stay in marinas I am slower to get under way My best day in 4 trips was 120 miles