Soon to be a liveaboard - advice?

Deidra said:

Still learning to navigate this site - hope this is the correct way to "reply". Master looks awesome! The boat we have a contract on is an 88 MT so your pics are doubly helpful. Good tip about the plexiglass. What are you using to hang them?

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I use the 3M (I think) hangars that are removable. Amazing that the sticky stuff actually sticks. Doesn't damage the wood and can be removed without residue. I've used them for months now and no problems. They have some that will hold 9-12 lbs (I'm not hanging anything that heavy but I use the large ones for big pictures hoping to compensate for the rock and roll of the boat).

Yes, it is good that some women are on the blog!

We have a blog of some of our recent projects -- it, too, is a work in progress.
Island Time Cruiser | Cruising adventures of Capt. Steve and Regina on their 38' trawler

Well, I am a not woman! I tell new live a boards they should make the boat comfortable and live able as they are going to be a live a board 100% of the time and cruise away from the dock a small % of the time. Being we were newbie’s/wantabe’s when we bought the Eagle, and we did not like and/or could afford most of the boat/marine so we used domestic/land stuff which had more of warm home feel.

Originally with all the teak and the small ports made the staterooms/bathroom/hall so dark, so we wanted to lighten and brighten them up. The only lighting was the 12 volt in the ceiling, and some of them did not work. So we added AC 120 volts on the side walls. Some of the 12 volt ceiling light fixtures are domestic land with a 12 volt bulb in them. We painted/roll the ceiling white with a heavy texture, and added the ½ rounds to cover the seams and some are hollow out so wiring was run under them to the ceiling fixtures that did not work and as an accent.

I built and added shelves to most rooms with rails/fiddles so we could have nick nack and stuff, and mirrors to make the room look/fell bigger and brighter. A rub mat or even carpet keeps things from sliding/moving. My wife likes to quilt so she made the quilts, curtains and cushions. As you can see the kitchen light and the light over the table are domestic with 12 volt bulbs. Most of the new LED lights are 12 volt. I made/added the entertainment center and book selves.
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All the floor are teak, but we decided to carpet to make the floors warmer, insulate from the cold bilge, more homey comfortable on our pedicure feet/toes and keep things from moving/sliding. The carpet is a burbur with a pattern in it as they hold up well, and we have gone to a light green color which hides the dirt. All the teak interior has been varnish and some re stained.

The hall way was so dark we textured wall papered over the teak. We did not want to paint as its hard to change back, and we decided to make one wall in each room other than teak. To much teak. Since we had children/grandchildren staying with us we also decided to remodel and canvas enclose the stern deck so the stern deck is also an additional living play area. In the summer we most eat and use the stern deck. We even carpeted the engine room a light green to match the DD green of the engines and added florescent lighting.

We tried to keep a balance between being nautical and domestic/homey.

Papa Charlie said:

First winter was the hardest due to the fact the 32 foot boat was not designed for live a board and an exceptionally cold winter. The boat was surrounded by ice almost a 1/2 inch thick. The second winter we had the new boat, but only by a couple of months so were getting settled in during the winter months. As time goes on you settle in and life gets easier.

Most people look at those who live a board and think we sit around and have the life of leisure. When in fact there is a lot to do and stay on top of. But we wouldn't trade it for land.

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Hello All:

We've been following this thread with interest ... both the liveaboard theme and sidebar about the 707. (My husband, Paul, says he heard that story about Tex and would love to know the "true" story as well. He's an aviation buff and wannabe controller who wrote a couple books instead. Now works for an airline.)

We're considering becoming part-time liveaboards during the week, as we're still tied to jobs in the city. We're mining for nuggets about what we don't know that we need to know before leaping in. (We'll definitely follow your Website, PapaBear, as you settle in to your new lives.)

We're looking at Des Moines or Everett Marinas as a possible home port and noted your comments, Papa Charlie, about ice your first year and about there "being alot to do and stay on top of." Could you enlighten us about what this entailed?

We'd also welcome info from those of you who are/have actually lived the life. Can you help us understand day to day realities and maintenance issues we should be savvy to? How do you deal with freezing water? How often is the water shut off during winter months? What was your heat source, how reliable was it, and would you recommend against/for it if you were to choose again?

The furnishing advice we saw here is interesting, too. Of course! One should realize that entry ways would limit the size of a sofa you can put on board. What are some of your favorite, clever solutions you've discovered for helping make life aboard more comfortable and convenient? (e.g. lighting, ventilation, storage ideas, etc. Pictures welcome!)

We're also evaluating what trawler to purchase. We're in a C-Dory now (our first boat) and wanting to move up into something with more creature comforts and space. Not too large, to keep moorage fees reasonable and provide flexibility when requesting transient moorage. Also, since this will be just a crash pad during the week and a cruiser for short-duration (1-4 week) trips in the Pacific Northwest, we're not overly worried about having copious amounts of living space nor multiple berths. While it's not designed as a liveaboard, we're considering a Ranger 31. Love the design and the support and community is highly attractive.

We'd welcome your insights. Thank you!

Amy & Paul

Welcome to the forum Amy and Paul.

The ranger 31 is a beautiful boat and hard to go wrong with. The wife and I may find ourselves in a similar situation soon and we've thought 34-36 foot Europa design boats may fill the bill nicely. They have a lot more space in just a little more length that may make those mid-week crash nights more comfortable. They are easy to board at the dock and have a nice back porch style cockpit. Here is an example I recently noticed on yachtworld.

2008 North Pacific Europa Sedan Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Which C-Dory do you have?

This is going to be short so more later.

I need to clarify, the plywood sticks out 3inch but the foam extend out inch another 3 inches so the foam hang over.

As most know we have been a live a board for 16years 4 years in Everett. This year was mild so the water was only turned off for 3 weeks at a time but the power only went off a couple of times for less than a day. When the water is on make sure the tanks are topped off, and make sure the batteries are charged and make sure gen set starts. A live a board boat should have a heating other than AC eclectic. Over the years we have posted a lot of information. If you have question ask.

CPseudonym said:

Welcome to the forum Amy and Paul.

The ranger 31 is a beautiful boat and hard to go wrong with. The wife and I may find ourselves in a similar situation soon and we've thought 34-36 foot Europa design boats may fill the bill nicely. They have a lot more space in just a little more length that may make those mid-week crash nights more comfortable. They are easy to board at the dock and have a nice back porch style cockpit. Here is an example I recently noticed on yachtworld.

2008 North Pacific Europa Sedan Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Which C-Dory do you have?

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Thanks for the info, Craig. There's a lot we like about the Europa design. Hadn't realized it could be found under 40ft, but I see now that there's also a 36ft Grand Banks model.

Do you know if it's a common design feature in the Europa style to put the galley adjacent to the helm seat? Would be nice to have a first mate's seat in that location.

We're in the CD-19 now. Great trainer boat. We learned to drive a 39ft Tully Craft before buying Caiprianha, so we have some familiarity with the more complex systems on an inboard. Love the control over an outboard, as well. Wouldn't mind bow/stern thrusters, either.

Amy

Amy, I've had no reason to research them much but a galley down Europa style would be our ideal too. There are many members here with firsthand experience owning them I'd defer to. We have an Owens express cruiser style and love the side by side helm seat arrangement but as you can see from my avatar I prefer to let my sons drive

Tolly Craft are abundant in your area and the 30' model we found comfortable. Member named Art has a 34' double cabin Tolly down my way that he is always excited to talk about. Mainship makes nice boats as does Bayliner in that size range.

Talk to a local broker is my best advice, it doesn't cost a thing to look around. I wouldn't fall in love with a brand name until have a good look around just yet.

Great technique on the driving—will remember that

Thanks for all the info. And, good advice to keep an open mind.

We downsized to a 1 BR apartment for a year or two to make sure we can deal with small spaces, while we explore options.

Amy

Caiprianha,
Hello neighbor. Water freeze control during the winter can vary by marina. Here in Everett, in the older section the pipes are unprotected and they will turn the water off when there is threat of freeze form more than a day or two. In the newer section, 12th street, they never have to turn it off as the pipes are protected.

Finding the right boat is a job, in my opinion. There are a great number of boat designs out there and each offer their good points and their less desirable. I would recommend that you spend some time looking at boats on Yachtworld.com. Try to imagine living on board and having to deal with the tasks of daily life. Such things as cooking, is there sufficient room on the counter to prepare a meal. What about dry storage, freezer storage and ice box. Refrigeration is another consideration, ice boxes or cold plate type are more efficient on energy but do not prolong some foods life such as veggies as they promote moisture and there is no air flow.
Imagine having to store your work cloths, getting ready for work. Is there room to iron? Laundry, do you plan to do it on board or haul everything to the laundry mat or home. Then you have to haul it back.
How big is the holding tank. Most marinas have people that offer pump out services. The come around once a week and pump your tank out. In Everett there is Rose Head Service. Cost varies by tank size. For our 50 gallon tank it is $15 per week. If you both work then a week on a 40 or even a 30 gallon tank is possible. But you have to watch it.
Showering, the best case is to have a separate shower instead of a wet bath. Wet baths offer a chance to clean the bathroom every time you shower but are a pain.
As for heat, diesel mixed with electric is the way to go in my mind. We use the diesel when it gets really cold. Ours is hydronic and all the hoses run through the cupboards and closets so it keeps the compartments warm and dry to prevent condensation and mildew. Diesel forced air is good also but not as efficient in my opinion. Ours also heats our water too. The electric heaters are used most of the time and are cheaper to run.
Something else to consider, as you live in the PNW, are you going to get a covered or uncovered berth. Covered offer protection to the boat and make live aboard life easier as you don't have to load and unload in our drizzly weather.

Great insights, thanks so much.

Good to know about the pumping service...much more convenient than motoring over to the pump out every week. We're thinking about an Air Head, but need to know more if it is the only head. E.g., can it work efficiently w/ daily use?

I've heard others extoll the benefits of hydronic heat. One comparison I read mentioned more condensation with hydronic vs forced air. Have you noticed any issues with that?

And how do you manage moisture issues with showering on-board during the winter?

Amy

Hi Everyone,

Apologies for being so quiet for so long. We still have no landline and therefore no Internet connection at the boat. Instead, we've found that if we go to the local supermarket and buy a coffee in the café there, we can use their Wi-Fi for 60 minutes.

We officially left the UK on 22 March and although we still have a great deal to 'sort out', we are well on the way to settling in on our new retired lives in Guernsey in the Channel Islands.

If you want to follow our exploits and cruising, we have started a new website for the boat www.playdeau.com where we can keep a 'blog' running as soon as we have our phone line installed which should be this week sometime.

So, all the best to you, and thanks so much for all the advice which has turned out to be just perfect.

Mr and Mrs GreatPapaBear

Caiprianha said:

Great insights, thanks so much.

Good to know about the pumping service...much more convenient than motoring over to the pump out every week. We're thinking about an Air Head, but need to know more if it is the only head. E.g., can it work efficiently w/ daily use?

I've heard others extoll the benefits of hydronic heat. One comparison I read mentioned more condensation with hydronic vs forced air. Have you noticed any issues with that?

And how do you manage moisture issues with showering on-board during the winter?

Amy

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The Hydraulic does not put moisture in the air, you might be thinking of propane. If you are in Everett drop by. We are on the commercial dock, QN2 can miss us we are the first ugly trawler.

Moisture is a big problem, so we use the nice marina facilities. Everett just re did the restroom. I also do the laundry using the marind wash/drier. When we do use the shower its very quick, close the door to keep moisture contained and open the hatch/ports to let the moisture out. We have 7 Dri Easy pots that absorb moisture. Being a live a board you will learn to be conservative with electricity, water, sanitation, everything especially when the temnps drop below freezing.

Phil Fill said:

The Hydraulic does not put moisture in the air, you might be thinking of propane. If you are in Everett drop by. We are on the commercial dock, QN2 can miss us we are the first ugly trawler.

Moisture is a big problem, so we use the nice marina facilities. Everett just re did the restroom. I also do the laundry using the marind wash/drier. When we do use the shower its very quick, close the door to keep moisture contained and open the hatch/ports to let the moisture out. We have 7 Dri Easy pots that absorb moisture. Being a live a board you will learn to be conservative with electricity, water, sanitation, everything especially when the temnps drop below freezing.

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Everett does have nice marina facilities. And you're confirming for us that it's really more realistic to plan to use them than the boat. The Des Moines marina is also nice and a better commute for us, but one awkward thing: no laundry facilities. We'd likely do laundry on weekends at the house, but there would be some weeks when we'd like to be able to do the wash while we're at the marina.

We'd love to drop by and meet you sometime. We keep our C-Dory in Everett right now, so you may get visitors

Amy

Caiprianha said:

Everett does have nice marina facilities. And you're confirming for us that it's really more realistic to plan to use them than the boat. The Des Moines marina is also nice and a better commute for us, but one awkward thing: no laundry facilities. We'd likely do laundry on weekends at the house, but there would be some weeks when we'd like to be able to do the wash while we're at the marina.

We'd love to drop by and meet you sometime. We keep our C-Dory in Everett right now, so you may get visitors

Amy

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If either the white 2500 dodge pick-up or the white 150 ford pick up there, then we are usually home. Your fob will also work on our gate, so you can knock on the door/hull.

Caiprianha said:

Great insights, thanks so much.

Good to know about the pumping service...much more convenient than motoring over to the pump out every week. We're thinking about an Air Head, but need to know more if it is the only head. E.g., can it work efficiently w/ daily use?

I've heard others extoll the benefits of hydronic heat. One comparison I read mentioned more condensation with hydronic vs forced air. Have you noticed any issues with that?

And how do you manage moisture issues with showering on-board during the winter?

Amy

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We only shower on board. Have had no issues with moisture. We squeegy the shower down after use, open a window and put a fan blowing into the shower to complete the drying. If too cold when the diesel heater is running just leave windows closed and run the fan blowing into the shower.

As for hydronic causing moisture that is not true at all. You are drying the air in the boat not adding to it. Forced air systems can introduce air into the boat and cause moisture. Cooking is a concern, we always run the exhaust fan on low over the stove when cooking. People, showers and cooking are the biggest contributors to moisture. We use dehumidifiers, the small type you buy from West Marine in some rooms. The forward berth we use a larger unit that removed water from the air and adds heat in its place. They are highly recommended. But don't run it all the time.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_336444-70213-LAD504DUL_0__?productId=3391058&Ntt=dehumidifiers&pl=1¤tURL=%3FNtt%3Ddehumidifiers&facetInfo=

We have a Spledide stackable washer/dryer that I installed on board. The secret to doing laundry on board is to make sure the unit vents over board. The dryer exhaust contains a great deal of moisture. Non vented dryers don't work well at all. Vented units are great. Close to home 220V units but not quite. We are very pleased with our units. I need to finish the teak trim on the compartment in the hall way but here is a link to the units and a picture of our units installed.

Compact Stacked Washer and Dryer - PPL Motor Homes

Phil Fill said:

If either the white 2500 dodge pick-up or the white 150 ford pick up there, then we are usually home. Your fob will also work on our gate, so you can knock on the door/hull.

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Roger that...we'll definitely stop by next time we're in the neighborhood.

And thanks so much, Papa Charlie, for the great insights. Squeegee makes sense to help get moisture out of the shower very quickly. And I'm hearing a common theme about de-humidifiers.

We're excited about this...but will have to live vicariously through you until we figure out the right boat and pull the cord next year.

Amy

A furnace that is vented , coal, oil or propane does not add moisture inside the boat.

FF said:

A furnace that is vented , coal, oil or propane does not add moisture inside the boat.

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Gee FF I am shocked as that was one of your biggest points against propane!

However, i agree as we had a vented CAT propane heater for 6 years with no moisture problem.

"Gee FF I am shocked as that was one of your biggest points against propane!"

Have you confused me with someone else

I LOVE!!! propane for refrigeration and cooking.

Its expensive and a PIA as a winter fuel setup.

The oil fired ranges like the Dickinson are my favorite for winter liveaboard , cheap to keep, operate on untaxed house oil and work the weeks the electric is inop.

Our first liveaboard, an Island Packet 440 with tons of storage. When we came ashore we had not touched a third of the stuff.

Find a relative or good friend who will allow you to keep some stuff in an unused closet. If you are embarrassed about asking for the space, that is an indication you are asking for too much space.

djmarchand said:

It sounds like you will base yourself in a marina and perhaps take weeklong cruises to places in France and England, but stay primarily in Guernsey.

David

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Hi David,

As you said, we've been based in Guernsey since March 2013, but for the last three months we've been cruising the west and north coasts of France. It's been a ball.

Reality is now kicking in as summer recedes, autumn (fall?) starts and winter beckons. It's getting cold! But the webasto's really good.

So far, it's been really good. We've learned to live 24/7 with each other (we both had jobs before we retired) and in a much smaller space as well.

In case it's of interest, have a look here: www.playdeau.com

GreatPapaBear
Play d'eau
Fleming 55

Phil Fill said:

How many of the replies are people that have actually been/tried being a live aboard in the cold, rainy, windy northern climates?

Walking several time a day, down/up a moving narrow floating dock, pouring down rain, dark, high winds can/is daunting and precarious. My wife has fallen in twice, both times she was very very lucky, people/I saw/heard her to pull her out, and I been in once. So make sure you female/wife is safe/protected. Better to wait for the right marina/dock/slip than to rush things. We waited 3 years before moved to Everett until an acceptable slip open up.

I had the marina install dock ladders at the bow and stern, throw life ring and I have hung ropes/lines from the dock, build steps that extend out beyond the dock so the space is limited, and keep the boat lines as tight as I can. Tight lines reduce the sudden jerk, noise/squeak and chaffing/damage to the lines. The only movement is the give of the fenders/bumpers. So make sure your boat, marina, dock, slip and you are live aboard safe and ready.

Do not over commit until your wife knows for sure.

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Hi Phil,

This has been good advice. Thank you.

Interestingly, we had a man overboard situation when a yacht tried mooring on the other side of a pontoon we were on when cruising the north coast of France.

The story is here: Man over board | Play d'eau

GreatPapaBear

My rule is that the most important item to be able to continue cruising is keeping the wife happy. Put almost all of her stuff in storage for a year on a trial basis. She will feel more comfortable knowing she hasn't "committed" and a year later can decide to dump the furniture or the boat.

Marty

Bay Pelican said:

My rule is that the most important item to be able to continue cruising is keeping the wife happy. Put almost all of her stuff in storage for a year on a trial basis. She will feel more comfortable knowing she hasn't "committed" and a year later can decide to dump the furniture or the boat.

Marty

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We did the same thing and got a storage unit (though it was my wife's idea, I heartily concurred)! Though to make matters worse, she's quite the "pack rat", having kept stuff from when her 27-year old was a baby. And not just baby things. We're talking whatever was in the house stuff! Now, just over a year later she's saying things like "I wish we could just load up a U-Haul and take all the stuff in storage to the girls..." Music to my ears!

Moonfish said:

We did the same thing and got a storage unit (though it was my wife's idea, I heartily concurred)! Though to make matters worse, she's quite the "pack rat", having kept stuff from when her 27-year old was a baby. And not just baby things. We're talking whatever was in the house stuff! Now, just over a year later she's saying things like "I wish we could just load up a U-Haul and take all the stuff in storage to the girls..." Music to my ears!

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After we'd made the decision to liveaboard, we went through the process of thinking 'what do we keep?' or more to the point, 'how do we decide what to offload?'

After much thought and discussion (argument?) we arrived at the following formula,

Heirlooms: The items that had been in the family for generations we'd put into long term storage to go to our children on our death. We'd not give it now just in case we didn't like living aboard and bought a house. We'd know this in 2/3 years.

The rest of the furniture: Auction, ebay, charity shops, give away. All of it. Literally.

Boxes of 'stuff' in the attic: This was the last element. The many boxes we'd filled and stored in the attic over the years, many of which had been passed down to us by parents, some of which had been passed to them by their parents and so on. Some we'd never even opened. For this we used the argument, 'if we dropped dead tomorrow, what would the children do with it? How would they know what's valuable or of any use to them?'

It took us a year, but we attacked the task box by box, only keeping 'what's valuable or of any use to them'. That reduced the huge mound to about 10 boxes, each labelled and documented so they could make well founded decisions when the time came.

This also went into long term storage.

Finally, it was the 'few bits we'd like to have available' which included boat spares, some of my wife's clothes and so on, for which we took a self store which we use regularly.

And that was that. From a six bed house to a Fleming, with a small longterm store for heirlooms and a self store for 'everyday' items we can't keep on the boat.

How did we feel doing it? At times, heart torn. How do we feel now? Relief.

I've got to come back and read thru this subject thread when I get a bit more time,....I am contemplating living aboard a vessel again myself. This posting will help remind me.

brian eiland said:

I've got to come back and read thru this subject thread when I get a bit more time,....I am contemplating living aboard a vessel again myself. This posting will help remind me.

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Any qns, just ask.

All the best.

Piers

greatpapabear said:

Hi All,

We have sold our house and in March next year we will become livebaoards on our Fleming 55.

Although we are both excited, we are also somewhat nervous. We'd be gratful for any advice you may have.

One immediate question before we start is 'do we get rid of everything in the house rather than put it into storage?'

Thank you - in excited anticipation - Piers and Lin

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Dear All,

Having had 8 great years living on Play d'eau, we bought a house in July last year. We hadn't meant to, but it just seemed to happen. We saw it, loved it, and bought it.

So Play d'eau is now floating on her own in the marina, but being well looked after during this time of lockdown where cruising is a big no no.

By now, we'd have had her lifted out and organised her annual spa treatments and any minor repairs. Lockdown has delayed this, and it's now scheduled for August/September.

Provided the virus is history and Brexit has been resolved so we know any potential VAT issues when we visiting France, we'll have our next major cruise in 2021.

However, back to the point of writing. We wanted to thank all of you who have contributed to this thread and given us the knowledge, foresight and encouragement to fulfill the liveabord dream.

Thank you.

I was half expecting you to say that you had swallowed the anchor, but glad to see that cruising is still very much in mind when conditions allow. Did you buy a house in Guernsey?

The place is kinda special to me although I've only visited once. I imagine that its a very pleasant place to live, provided the banker & lawyer expats have not priced normal folks out of the market. A second cousin living there traced our family tree back to the year 1357 when our ancestor moved across from somewhere near the Normandy/Brittany border. Quite an amazing number of years, with some fascinating history!

Insequent said:

I was half expecting you to say that you had swallowed the anchor, but glad to see that cruising is still very much in mind when conditions allow. Did you buy a house in Guernsey?

The place is kinda special to me although I've only visited once. I imagine that its a very pleasant place to live, provided the banker & lawyer expats have not priced normal folks out of the market. A second cousin living there traced our family tree back to the year 1357 when our ancestor moved across from somewhere near the Normandy/Brittany border. Quite an amazing number of years, with some fascinating history!

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1357 - wow! Ours can only be traced to 1476.

Yes, we bought in Guernsey, that tiny 30 sq mile island some 70 miles south of England. Only 65,000 population, but an island full of exciting history. With France so close, the French still want to take back ownership.

As you know, it's a crown protectorate being owned by the title Duke of Normandy which is personally owned by the Queen. Self governing, own laws (and tax laws) etc, etc, and not part of the UK.

If ever you're cruising or visiting the Channel Islands, send a PM and we'll have a beer or three. You'd be so welcome.