Time, tides, and currents

Great thread, thanks for starting it. I remember waking up and coming to the bridge for my watch. We were on the one of the last legs of our passage to Seattle. I thought we might have been having engine problems. We were only making 3 knots headway! We were bucking the ebb. I will be planing our future cruises very carefully.

sunchaser said:

I'm curious too. What would cause you to think that this most basic of planning chores is something that we would ignore? Particularly in the PNW.

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I think some on this forum are misinterpreting the intent of your question. I took it to mean "why would the op even ask the question? Of course we would consider the tides! Just as we would check the fuel gage!"

Really?

SeaHorse II said:

I think some on this forum are misinterpreting the intent of your question. I took it to mean "why would the op even ask the question? Of course we would consider the tides! Just as we would check the fuel gage!"

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If you read the responses, our brethren in the Gulf area stated he does not bother with tides as they are miniscule. A gentleman on the ICW states that it doesn't matter as much where he is located as different inlets may run in different directions and he will be bucking one while assisted by another in most journeys. We don't all live in the PNW. Why ask any question on a forum?

MVNoPlans said:

We don't all live in the PNW. Why ask any question on a forum?

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Possibly to inform some PNW boaters that it might be a prudent idea to watch the tides???

Isn't that what MVNoPlans did in his original post #1...get the discussion started?

MVNoPlans said:

If you read the responses, our brethren in the Gulf area stated he does not bother with tides as they are miniscule. A gentleman on the ICW states that it doesn't matter as much where he is located as different inlets may run in different directions and he will be bucking one while assisted by another in most journeys. We don't all live in the PNW. Why ask any question on a forum?

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It matters a lot on the east coast, current when you are using that inlet to transit twixt ocean and inside, or going up and down the Hudson for instance. Tide level DEFINITELY on the ICW as many places are not comfortably passable at low tide. Even the "pushme pullyou" effect on either side of an inlet varies, and if your trip is going to end closer to one side than another, it is a consideration. Personally, I think it is just basic seamanship to know what the water is doing below you and ahead of you and the effect it has or will have on your boat. After all your boat is floating and moving in the water, not on it.

SeaHorse II said:

Possibly to inform some PNW boaters that it might be a prudent idea to watch the tides???

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I would hope that the OP asked the question because he honestly wanted to know the answer, not so he could ridicule anyone whose answer didn't agree with his practice.

caltexflanc said:

It matters a lot on the east coast, current when you are using that inlet to transit twixt ocean and inside, or going up and down the Hudson for instance. Tide level DEFINITELY on the ICW as many places are not comfortably passable at low tide. Even the "pushme pullyou" effect on either side of an inlet varies, and if your trip is going to end closer to one side than another, it is a consideration. Personally, I think it is just basic seamanship to know what the water is doing below you and ahead of you and the effect it has or will have on your boat. After all your boat is floating and moving in the water, not on it.

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Knowing the state of the tide and current is, of course, part of basic seamanship. As I posted above, and apparently only one person picked up on, planning your entire cruise on tides and current is not necessary or practical for some of us. Yes, some of us.

I can't justify hanging around some boring anchorage or marina for six extra hours just to save $2 in fuel by waiting for a favorable current. You can save fuel by going with the tide and your time from point A to point B may be less, but your miles covered per day can go way down requiring more marina stays. Where's the economy in that?

MVNoPlans said:

If you read the responses, our brethren in the Gulf area stated he does not bother with tides as they are miniscule. A gentleman on the ICW states that it doesn't matter as much where he is located as different inlets may run in different directions and he will be bucking one while assisted by another in most journeys. We don't all live in the PNW. Why ask any question on a forum?

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The ICW behind Gulf Shores is pretty docile {except at LuLu's where it sometimes gets rowdy}, but the passes can be pretty tough with opposing tide to wind. Currents run pretty strong around Pensacola Pass, and with wind against the tide Pennsacola Bay can kick the hell out of you.

We do a lot of gunkholing on the Chesapeake so knowing the tidal staus becomes helpful in keeping the props out of the mud. On our ICW trip, tidal info was critcal in some spots to assure a properly timed passage thru a low area. Weather & tides are something we check before each jaunt.

no ridicule here

rwidman said:

I would hope that the OP asked the question because he honestly wanted to know the answer, not so he could ridicule anyone whose answer didn't agree with his practice.

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No Ridicule from me. Not my style. I have better things to do than poke folks in the eye on a boating forum. Pretty damn surprised at the turn this has taken. Oh well.

MVNoPlans said:

No Ridicule from me. Not my style. I have better things to do than poke folks in the eye on a boating forum. Pretty damn surprised at the turn this has taken. Oh well.

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Here is the flip side of the coin to your question. I see--- as have probably plenty of other people on this forum---- a LOT of boaters simply "head out" with no thought to the currents, tides, or winds at all. All you need to own a boat is the money to buy it with. You don't have to prove one shred of competence. And I would venture to guess, particularly if you remove the sailboaters from the equation, that more boaters head out with no thought to the currents and tides than do. Doesn't matter if it's a 16 foot runabout or a 50 foot cruiser. There are more than enough bozos out there in our waters to make Channel 16 very interesting to listen to during the summer months and to provide hours of entertainment in the anchorages and at the boat ramps.

So from that perspective your question was pretty valid because, in my observation anyway, an awful lot of boaters do NOT take currents and such into account when planning a trip. "The weather's nice, the water's deep, we're off."

Marin said:

... a LOT of boaters simply "head out" with no thought to the currents, tides, or winds at all. All you need to own a boat is the money to buy it with. ...

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Perhaps, but when sailboat racing in SF Bay in the 1960s, the tides were a major factor in determing our strategies. It wasn't uncommon to find counter/reduced currents to help our forward progress. Still use such strategies.

One thing about many TF discussions....

Some look at boating as ALL of their boating is paid for by "expendable income". For some liveaboard cruisers...it may be the vast majority of their entire budget. Also discussions about conveniences, scheduling, maintenance...heck most things about boating are at least a little different for full timers than others.

If you have a crew that's from Baltimore...yeah...I was under strict orders to be in a marina with cable TV on Super Bowl Sunday...we had to change marinas and almost reposition slips for that one mutinous demand..

Some boaters cruise "trips"...meaning a fairly well planned itinerary but of limited nature. For others it's just wake up and see what the day brings. It doesn't cost anymore to spend the night somewhere if you go 5 miles as 100 miles in transit. 100 or 200 or 300 nights per year in marinas costs the same no matter where you spend them to a degree (just the price of the marina which you can still juggle a bit). The same for staying at free docks or at anchor.

So if I can plan a trip, get where I'm planning to go anyway sooner or later and save hundreds of dollars in fuel over the course of a multi-month trip....yep I'll do it if it only takes a couple minutes of looking at a computer tidal current program.

I guess the extreme example would be the boater who didn't think it through and did the "Loop" in reverse...

I've also paid the price for not paying attention to tides.

mattkab said:

I've also paid the price for not paying attention to tides.

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OK so don't tease us, spill the beans.....

Phil Fill said:

The further north the bigger the tide swings and currents. In the Puget Sound tide swings are 14 ft and further north, Alaska/BC, they get to 20 ft. Also the depth can charge hundred of feet within a boat length. You do not want to cut buoys/corners, so courses, tide and currents are important to check.

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When you are in the inside passage current charts are almost more important than tides.

I have been in Cook Inlet Alaska when there is a 32 foot tide change. My 2 pound lead halibut weight was water skiing behind the boat!

Alaskan Sea-Duction said:

OK so don't tease us, spill the beans.....

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This was a few years ago [edit: I'm getting old, this was over 10 years ago now]. That's our Catalina 30, the grey coat is my brother-in-law, and yellow pants is my wife.

It's not really a story about tides, but one of making sure you know where you are on the chart! (Side note - this day is why I prefer GPS chartplotters to paper charts. I had paper charts, but no electronics -- I just didn't know where I was on said paper! )

Anyway, once we were aground I looked at the tide tables, and read that high tide was in a few hours. So I figured we would be lifted off the sandbar in no time.

Of course, I read the Seattle tides (45+ miles away)... and didn't take into account the offsets for the south sound.... within an hour the hull was dry!

Nothing was damaged (missed large rocks by just a few boatlengths though), and nobody was hurt, and now it's a somewhat funny story to tell at the dock.

mattkab said:

This was a few years ago [edit: I'm getting old, this was over 10 years ago now]. That's our Catalina 30, the grey coat is my brother-in-law, and yellow pants is my wife.

It's not really a story about tides, but one of making sure you know where you are on the chart! (Side note - this day is why I prefer GPS chartplotters to paper charts. I had paper charts, but no electronics -- I just didn't know where I was on said paper! )

Anyway, once we were aground I looked at the tide tables, and read that high tide was in a few hours. So I figured we would be lifted off the sandbar in no time.

Of course, I read the Seattle tides (45+ miles away)... and didn't take into account the offsets for the south sound.... within an hour the hull was dry!

Nothing was damaged (missed large rocks by just a few boatlengths though), and nobody was hurt, and now it's a somewhat funny story to tell at the dock.

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Was that @ Penrose? I have seen sailboats with that very same look over at Penrose on a few occasions.

Tides- we always check, and run with whenever possible.. makes a huge difference!

MVNoPlans said:

Was that @ Penrose? I have seen sailboats with that very same look over at Penrose on a few occasions.

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Yes, that's Penrose Point State Park.

For those unfamiliar with the area, the sand spit with the boats moored around it on this link is what I ran aground on: penrose point state park - Google Maps It's about 5' under water at high tide.

Even with (or maybe because of?) that one experience, Penrose is one of our favorite places in the South Sound. We visit there once or twice each year and enjoy lots of wildlife and great views.

while traveling the East Coast. Icw. I've had days that the.tide. seem to be against me all day some days I've had a favorable tide most.if the.day: while making 75to 110 miles a day and passing numerous inlets I truly don't believe you could work the tide in your favor without a computer program and much time waiting for the tide change

Tide is good. Current is gooder.

alormaria said:

Tide is good. Current is gooder.

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Point taken. Currently

motion30 said:

while traveling the East Coast. Icw. I've had days that the.tide. seem to be against me all day some days I've had a favorable tide most.if the.day: while making 75to 110 miles a day and passing numerous inlets I truly don't believe you could work the tide in your favor without a computer program and much time waiting for the tide change

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Usually you can time such a trip to get one "sling shot" in, using the current in you favor then hitting the area of the inlet at slack and riding some current from there. I consider it all part of the sport and enjoy the process. No need for a computer program, not even a calculator really. We're almost never in a hurry, so why not play the game if you can?

motion30 said:

while traveling the East Coast. Icw. I've had days that the.tide. seem to be against me all day some days I've had a favorable tide most.if the.day: while making 75to 110 miles a day and passing numerous inlets I truly don't believe you could work the tide in your favor without a computer program and much time waiting for the tide change

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That's a point I've been trying to make here without much success. I'm happy to see that someone else understands.

motion30 said:

while traveling the East Coast. Icw. I've had days that the.tide. seem to be against me all day some days I've had a favorable tide most.if the.day: while making 75to 110 miles a day and passing numerous inlets I truly don't believe you could work the tide in your favor without a computer program and much time waiting for the tide change

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Go back and read post #7...there are DEFINITELY runs that are worth predicting...even if it's not all downhill. That post #7 was seconded in post 20 by another prolific cruiser...and supplementd in post 55 by anther.

There are certain areas where it is worth waiting several days or even a week to gain favorable tides...if you cruise slow enough...above 8 knots and of course it becomes less meaningful.

It is even worth ducking outside of some inlets to avoid foul tides and coming back in for fair ones.

And again...if you don't care or cruise fast enough...then obviously curents are meaningless.

You would wait several days for a favorable current ? I envy your patience. I guess I need to relax a little more

I find this thread to be quite interesting and since I have a slow boat, I pay attention to the tides for" progress over the ground purposes." I know that depth is also a component of tidal changes but distance & time concern me the most. Moonstruck has taken that element out of the equation with his speed, which I continue to lust after.

motion30 said:

You would wait several days for a favorable current ? I envy your patience. I guess I need to relax a little more

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Sure...I timed my departure from NJ by delaying 2 eeks to get the right tide. My first days run was 8 hours instead of 15 and much of it in the dark.

I also delayed certain stretches of the ICW till favorable tides because I could...I had no lplace to be by a certain day or week.

Big difference when you are just cruisin' versus vacation.

Especially if you are limited on funds and when over the course of the year you can avoid hundreds of hours of wear and tear and many hundreds of dollars in fuel when it's no big deal when and where you go.