Do you really need an inverter?

I had a Trace Engineering inverter on my previous boat that did it’s best to try and burn the boat to the waterline. I just happened to be on the boat at the time and put out the fire. The inverter was not in use at the time.

It was well out of warranty but Trace paid me 250 bucks to send it back so they could examine it. Never heard back from them. This was just before Trace was sold.

I swore I’d never have another one.

Coffee? Peculator on the propane stove. Toast? One of those stand up racks for a camping stove also on the propane stove. TV? I have a Lcd that runs on 12 volt. Panasonic Toughbook? A Lind DC/DC convertor. I have a couple of little solar chargers for out tablet and smartphone. They work much better than I though they would.

My refer and freezer are both straight DC.

It’s a individual choice. We all cruise a little bit differently and have different opinions about what is and is not “roughing it”.

NL 6Kw genset with 323 hrs. in 7 years.

Mike

This thread has made interesting reading and shows the two schools of thought for power vs sail folks. It seems obvious that power boaters do not mind the noise and vibration of diesel gen sets. Way back when the Trace 2012 was the only game in town I had one for my Cal 40. Back then solar panels were $5 per watt and the best bang for the buck in batteries were 6 volt, 220 a-hr golf cart batteries. Even with this primitive by today's standards set up, I was good on the hook and never needed to run the aux (remember I'm on a sailboat) to charge the batteries.

Today things have changed, solar panels are $1 per watt, LiFePO4 cells are cheaper than all other batteries when you figure in cycle life, and inverters can be sized for any loads. To me, an AC gen set is redundant, heavy because it has to run at a fixed rpm for electrical output frequency, and you still deal with the noise and vibration. If your unable to size your solar to meet daily needs on the hook, then a small, light weight diesel DC gen set for battery charging will supplement your needs.

You can even go one step further. At this time I'm on the fence for my next boat, power or sail. But either way, it will have hybrid propulsion and a all electric galley. As energy dense as the new LiFePO4 cells are, you could size your inverter/propulsion bank to allow 100+ nm @ 4 kt for propulsion. The last time I was full time cruising, a typical passage was in that range and I would enjoy my new anchorage for about a week. Solar can be sized to meet all domestic loads on the hook with enough surplus to top off the battery bank from the last passage in about a week. Or you could just marina hop each day's run and feel a little better about a $50 overnight slip fee when you pull $30 worth of electricity in 24 hours from the marina to charge your 75 KW-hr battery bank.

Who knows how expensive diesel will be in the future? I sure don't want my next cruising plans to be dictated by the cost of diesel when the sun provides all the energy I need to cruise.

rwidman said:

Shore power?

I typically run for several hours, anchor for the rest of the day and the night, get up, start the engine, and repeat. After a couple days of this, I usually spend the night at a marina.

One way or the other, the batteries get recharged. No genset.

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Ditto.

Helps to have a gas stove.

markpierce said:

Ditto.

Helps to have a gas stove.

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Yes it does and I question why a boat would have an electric stove unless it was a very big boat where one would expect to run a genset most of the time.

My TV/DVD is 12 volt.

ancora said:

Readin' about all the problems with inverters I decided against puttin' one in. Rather run the gen set.

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I've read about a lot of engine problems but I still have one in my boat.

If you have a genset, there's no harm in running it (except for the noise) and you don't need an inverter. I would hate to have to fire up a genset just to make a cup of coffee or to watch TV.

We have a little 750 watt inverter I purchased at Sam's Club for $25. Power for it comes from a house bank of 6 6-volt Golf Cart batteries (wired in series to for4m 3 12-volt pairs=660 amps, also purchased from Sam's for around $75 each. Rather than running our big 8kW genset most of the time when we need AC, we usually run the little Honda 2000W (cost $850) which will run all night on a gallon of gas. Makes coffee, recharges batteries, powers TV, cell phone charger, computer, etc. Haven't been too terribly uncomfortable so far. We rather enjoy learning how much we can live without, rather than the other way around.

rwidman said:

I would hate to have to fire up a genset just to make a cup of coffee or to watch TV.

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That is where everyone is different. I couldn't imagine using a television on a boat unless full time cruising or living aboard. As shown in my avatar, I have better things to view over the stern.

Sent by Craig from my iPhone using Trawler

Craig the TV becomes necessary for us during football season as we spend most every weekend on the boat but don't want to miss any Niners games. .

Pineapple Girl said:

Craig the TV becomes necessary for us during football season as we spend most every weekend on the boat but don't want to miss any Niners games. .

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My football fix is satisfied watching high school games about 2 blocks from my house on Thursday or Friday nights. Haven't watched a pro game in years.

Sent by Craig from my iPhone using Trawler

Yes i need:
My Inverter:
WEST MARINE Inverter at West Marine
under way, i go without gen and my starboard alternador charged the 8 D ( Startbatterie for all Motores and gens) and two 8 D for 12 Volt consume, my portalternador charged the 3X 8 D Group for the Inverter.
Under way we used 1 fridged and 3 freezer .
_________________________
Norbert

CPseudonym said:

That is where everyone is different. I couldn't imagine using a television on a boat unless full time cruising or living aboard. As shown in my avatar, I have better things to view over the stern.

Sent by Craig from my iPhone using Trawler

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OK, pretend I didn't mention the TV. What is your response?

Sometimes there are good things to watch on the water Sometimes there are not. I certainly don't want to imply that everyone should have a TV set on his or her boat. It's a personal choice.

We're with Craig. Our boat came with a combo VCR/TV made by that stirling and well-known entertainment equipment manufacturer, Lloyd. We used it a few times to show some BBC comedy series to friends who lived on a small island in the San Juans with no TV/cable service. Other than that we never used it, so a few years ago we took it off the boat and gained some wonderful storage space in the aft cabin.

We have a Bose Sound Dock on the boat and the Alpine AM/FM radio that came out of one of our cars years ago. We thought we might like to put a new DVD/monitor setup on the boat to take Netflicks disks with us to watch but we haven't done that yet and probably won't. It's too nice to just sit and watch what's around us--- over this last weekend it was twenty or so harbor porpoises--- or read or whatever. We have backgammon on our iPads if we really need some on-screen entertainment.

So our inverter, when it gets used at all, is mostly used to recharge things. There is no way we need a 2500 watt inverter but we do need two echo chargers and at the time the Heart Freedom 25 was the "smallest" inverter/smart charger on the market that had two echo chargers built into it.

We have an inverter and the genset. The inverter powers the fridge and various AC loads once away from the dock. If we anchor, we could then switch to the genset or do a couple of nights without if we wished. It's nice to have choices... and AC.

2000W inverter and 3.5KW genset. Not wired to the boat (yet). We haven't really started anchoring out a lot yet, but will do that this season now that TiVo has died. I use it to run TV on some nights, run a fan as we sleep, and for morning coffee.

I have a lot to learn about using one and how to read the loads on the house bank. When we make coffee or run the microwave, the voltage of the house batts drops to between 10 and 11 volts and I am not sure if that is supposed to happen or not. Seems low.

Anyway, I am glad I have one so I don't need to fire-up Ol'Genny so early. She's a loud bitch.

Tom-

Pineapple Girl said:

Craig the TV becomes necessary for us during football season as we spend most every weekend on the boat but don't want to miss any Niners games. .

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Me too! Football nut here....just ask my wife! I watch the games on the big screen and she watches her programs in the den.

Tom.B said:

2000W inverter ............................

When we make coffee or run the microwave, the voltage of the house batts drops to between 10 and 11 volts and I am not sure if that is supposed to happen or not. Seems low. -

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It is low. Some folks don't pay attention to the instructions when installing a high power inverter. You could be drawing 200 amps from the battery and the voltage can drop in undersized or over length cables.

Or, you don't have the battery power you need and the voltage drop is caused by the internal resistance of the battery (batteries).

Or a combination of the two.

SeaHorse II said:

Me too! Football nut here....just ask my wife! I watch the games on the big screen and she watches her programs in the den.

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Inverter or generator (or both which we have) it makes no difference to us with regards to watching sports. Particularly American football which I don't classify as a sport, anyway. Anything where the same players don't play both offense and defense is not a sport to my way of thinking. It's just a process. It could just as easily be played by machines that the coaches drive from the sidelines. Or better yet, the team owners could drive from their skyboxes.

Baseball, basketball, real football, rugby, even cricket and curling are sports to my way of thinking. If we got Man United games in our area I'd probably watch them when I had time.

From my very limited experience cricket is a hell of a lot of fun to play but earthworms are more exciting to watch than a cricket match. I wonder if one watched a cricket match on a monitor powered by an inverter and you cranked up the voltage from the inverter if the match would go faster?

rwidman said:

OK, pretend I didn't mention the TV. What is your response?

Sometimes there are good things to watch on the water Sometimes there are not. I certainly don't want to imply that everyone should have a TV set on his or her boat. It's a personal choice.

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Ron, it was not meant as a negative comment. If it was taken as such I apologize. Merely pointing out the difference in style of use with users of similar sized craft.

The topic of this thread is interesting as it has brought out so many ways folks use their boats. Mike has a DC only boat yet seams to not suffer from lacking any of the luxuries. George on the other hand needs the local power company to bring a reactor online when he docks.

Nothing wrong with any of these scenarios and it is eye opening to say the least IMO. Our boats are all uniquely equipped to satisfy our desired use objectives.

Sent by Craig from my iPhone using Trawler

When you have spent alost 1/2 of your life afloat...a boat becomes nothing more than a house, apartment or condo to some (not all).

So if you like having all the amenities of living ashore...the boat is the same....only your address is a little different and often the scenery, while not necessarily better, it sure changes more often.

That's why some of us like out 50 amp services, generators, inverters, big battery banks and anything else that most of us like most of the time...but most live ashore and don't necessarily relate to full liveaboards.

I love solitude, the mountains, camping, anchoring out...etc..etc..like many folks...but for the other 300 days a year that most people live in the typical world of work, TV, movies, sports, comfort, etc...etc...the liveaboard is right in step and equips their boat to accomodate the same.

Our boat came to us with a 2500w inverter. It also had a TV and a microwave. No need for either the TV or the microwave so we removed them. No generator, just a bunch of batteries. The stove is propane. The fridges are DC only. Unless we are at a dock, AC is only useful to us for charging laptops and phones, electric tools, and so on. We generally only do that when the we are motoring.

Having been sailboaters for a long time, we are pretty frugal with power when we are anchored.

No TV or entertainment system on the Coot. Want to get away from them and keep the boat's systems simpler. Nevertheless, we will bring popcorn and wine/beer/whatever to watch TV/videos with you!

markpierce said:

an inverter providing 110-AC is convenient for powering tools, charging phones, radios, running heaters, operating a compressor, heating the water, etcetera, leastwise on my boat.

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm186/marcoperforar/Coot starting feb/IMG_0970.jpg

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How massive is your battery bank that you are able to run heaters and your hot water heater using your inverter?

psneeld said:

When you have spent alost 1/2 of your life afloat...a boat becomes nothing more than a house, apartment or condo to some (not all).

So if you like having all the amenities of living ashore...the boat is the same....only your address is a little different and often the scenery, while not necessarily better, it sure changes more often.

That's why some of us like out 50 amp services, generators, inverters, big battery banks and anything else that most of us like most of the time...but most live ashore and don't necessarily relate to full liveaboards.

I love solitude, the mountains, camping, anchoring out...etc..etc..like many folks...but for the other 300 days a year that most people live in the typical world of work, TV, movies, sports, comfort, etc...etc...the liveaboard is right in step and equips their boat to accomodate the same.

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Right on. The needs of a day tripper or weekend warrior or vacation boater are very different from a full time cruiser/live aboard. When I had a real job and would go chartering, I wanted to get off the grid and away from it all, live the simple life for a few days. When we bought a boat as Sole Residence House, and one destined for remote places, the requirement changed quite a bit. I remember my wife's sisters and friends all remarking how brave and sacrificing she was to go live on a boat. She'd keep insisting she wasn't brave or sacrificing one bit. Eventually each one came to visit and the universal response was "oh, NOW I get it !"

rwidman said:

It is low. Some folks don't pay attention to the instructions when installing a high power inverter. You could be drawing 200 amps from the battery and the voltage can drop in undersized or over length cables.

Or, you don't have the battery power you need and the voltage drop is caused by the internal resistance of the battery (batteries).

Or a combination of the two.

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Well I *DID* pay attention. The cables are either the recommended size or are one gauge larger that the inverter called for a full power for the short distance they are going (about 5 or 6 feet) to the ProMariner Tru Power 200W inverter. I want to say I used 2/0. That's what my schematics show. Currently, I have 4 golf cart batts (440Ah) that are less than one year old and "seem" to check out. However, I plan to add two more. This combination has work on other boats, but like I said, I need to do some more tests and collect some more data before I throw too much time at it. It's not a high priority thing right now

I have empirical evidence that TVs do indeed, not float.

11 volts while under a load like a microwave for a few minutes isn't out of line. 10 is scraping rock bottom (at rest with no load 10 is a 100% dead) but if the batts are healthy deep cycles, doable very briefly. If they spring back into the 12's afterwards, with low/no load all is good.

Did you ask the admiral?

Northern Spy said:

No gen, no ice, no inver-tars,
Not a single luxury,
Like Robinson Crusoe,
As primitive as can be...

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On my last boat, a sailboat, the only electric motor was the starter for the 8HP main propulsion engine. There was a foot pump for the galley, an ice box, a kettle for hot water, a diesel stove, and a few electric lights.

My current boat has a Magnum inverter, 4kw noise maker, hot and cold running water, a shower, microwave, toaster, coffee maker, and plenty of outlets for charging phones, laptops, TV's etc.

I was happy either way, but me thinks the crew likes the new boat better.

mahal said:

How massive is your battery bank that you are able to run heaters and your hot water heater using your inverter?

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Only use the electric water heater when plugged in at the marina. Otherwise, whatever heat was generated by the John Deere. Afloat, only use the electric heater underway and/or for a short time after a run. Heavy blankets then take over.

Our Californian came with a 2500W Inverter, CNG stove/oven, 12v/AC refrigerator; no gen set. we carry a Honda 2000i portable generator for backup. Inverter runs the computer in the evening; coffee pot in the am & occasionally a small toaster oven for a short time. Battery on board are 4 8D's. Cabin lights are slowly being changed over to LED. No TV; lots of books. Interestingly, the exchange book programs along the ICW were fantastic. Since most of our time is at anchor, we figurerd simple might be wiser.

I think I may be in the minority of folks using these "trawlers". I will need the ice maker making ice and need the ac in the summer and neither of these items will run off of an inverter. If I wan't to watch some tv it would be nice to have quite time to watch the Saints whoop up on some 49'ers. (I'll have to check into the 12 volt tv or a small inverter for the tv and games for the kids.
Here is a picture of my friends houseboat he built and drug to the islands to fish. This is heaven.