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I never liked the Florida Bay Coasters. They have a V hull that is truncated in the center to form a flat bottom for gunk holing and beaching. I worry about the flat bottom pounding if the wave height gets bigger than twice the draft.

They are fine for small lakes, rivers and the ICW, but not large lakes, bays, seas or oceans IMHO.
 
GalaxyGirl said:
Do you guys think the Florida Bay Coaster will be okay to make Carribean runs?

Also, the shallow draft 4' 6" should put me back on the ICW?
Click to expand...


GG now you're looking at what I think is your kind of boat!

You could (if you watch your weather) travel anywhere along a coastline, or island hop.

Did you know that between the ICW and inland waterways there are something like 22,000 miles of navigatable waterways you can explore? Then there's a lifetime that could be spent in the Carribean.

If you want to explore europe, ship the boat. Its not cheap, but in comparison with that large of a passagemaker its a bargain.

The ONLY reservation I have with that particular boat is that if you want to cruise the Great Loop there is a 19' bridge that must be cleared, in Chicago if memory serves correctly.

Another boat along those same lines is the Great Harbor.

Good Hunting!
 
So now that you are looking at more realistic boats...

Here are a few to consider. All in your area, all with 4 cabins, all appear to be in relatively good condition, all asking under 400K (and remember, your initial offer on any of these should be at 50% of asking). Don't worry about the big engines on the Derecktor and the Hatteras, you can always run these around hull speed.

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...rency=USD&access=Public&listing_id=70951&url=

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...rrency=USD&access=Public&listing_id=1747&url=

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...&access=Public&listing_id=1681&url=&imc=pg-fs

Scott Welch
Island Eagle
 
IslandEagle said:
So now that you are looking at more realistic boats...

Here are a few to consider. All in your area, all with 4 cabins, all appear to be in relatively good condition, all asking under 400K (and remember, your initial offer on any of these should be at 50% of asking). Don't worry about the big engines on the Derecktor and the Hatteras, you can always run these around hull speed.

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...rency=USD&access=Public&listing_id=70951&url=

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...rrency=USD&access=Public&listing_id=1747&url=

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...&access=Public&listing_id=1681&url=&imc=pg-fs

Scott Welch
Island Eagle
Click to expand...

Scott – Congrats!

IMHO: Those three boats are the best selection yet offered for GG and Meme and family... at least for stable, well outfitted, and comfortable starters that could make them pleased for their first years of marine life. After that sky’s the limit! Hope they see the light.
 
IslandEagle said:
So now that you are looking at more realistic boats...

Here are a few to consider. All in your area, all with 4 cabins, all appear to be in relatively good condition, all asking under 400K (and remember, your initial offer on any of these should be at 50% of asking). Don't worry about the big engines on the Derecktor and the Hatteras, you can always run these around hull speed.

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...rency=USD&access=Public&listing_id=70951&url=

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...rrency=USD&access=Public&listing_id=1747&url=

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...&access=Public&listing_id=1681&url=&imc=pg-fs

Scott Welch
Island Eagle
Click to expand...
There is the problem of slobbering also known as wet stacking that can destroy a diesel engine when running it at low speed:
Caterpillar - Leaking - Online Community
See the 5th message down.
"General rule of thumb to reduce slobber, for every eight hours running engine below 45% load, run engine at least one hour above 75% load"
What I have read is 40% power for older designed engines to prevent slobbering.

Diesel generator - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
scroll down to end of article for last heading titled Engine Damage.
 
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westwinds said:
There is the problem of slobbering also known as wet stacking that can destroy a diesel engine when running it at low speed
Click to expand...

The Detroit Diesel 71 Series engines are one of the toughest, most basic diesel engines on the planet. They are close to indestructible. While it's possible that they could be damaged by prolonged low-speed running, it's extremely unlikely that a pleasure boater would be able to do so, given the low number of actual hours accumulated.

I know of a local boat which is a gulf coast crew boat converted to a charter dinner cruise boat, I'm sure those engines have not been over 1200 RPM in 15 years, and she seems fine to me. She runs almost every night in the summer, and that represents many, many more hours than typical pleasure use.

I personally run Island Eagle at 1350 RPM, and have never had a problem.

All in all, I'd rate this as pretty low on the worry front.

Scott Welch
Island Eagle
 
Crunched a few more numbers. Say that it is decided to run the John Deere 6048TFM50 engines at 45% of the maximum continuous power rating of 154 horsepower because this is more conservative than 40% to prevent slobbering. This means the boat now goes 8.12 knots at 1830 RPM, uses 7.6 gallons per hour and gets 1.07 miles per gallon.

Say the boat is low on fuel so lets go 5 knots at 1100 RPM, use 2.2 gallons per hour and get 2.27 miles per gallon and worry about running at 75% power for an hour when there is plenty of fuel.

The speed length formulas from which I take these numbers are for an average boat. These numbers may vary depending on the actual boat. If you have a long narrow beam boat such as this: http://www.gerrmarine.com/power_70.html and look at Iron Heart boat, the speed length ratio can go beyond 1.34 as the maximum hull speed.

For any particular boat, it would be wise to do actual fuel consumption and speed under no wind and no current conditions, making a run in either direction to average out just in case there is a little bit of wind and/or current. Make sure the bottom of the boat and the propeller are clean

The 6068TFM50 John Deere engine can be pushed beyond the 154 horsepower to 225 horsepower for 5% of the time, say if you have a storm trying to push you onto the breakers. Well in that case, I guess forget the 5% and just get out of there. Anyway that extra horsepower is available under really adverse conditions so use it if needed.
 
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IslandEagle said:
The Detroit Diesel 71 Series engines are one of the toughest, most basic diesel engines on the planet. They are close to indestructible. While it's possible that they could be damaged by prolonged low-speed running, it's extremely unlikely that a pleasure boater would be able to do so, given the low number of actual hours accumulated.

I know of a local boat which is a gulf coast crew boat converted to a charter dinner cruise boat, I'm sure those engines have not been over 1200 RPM in 15 years, and she seems fine to me. She runs almost every night in the summer, and that represents many, many more hours than typical pleasure use.

I personally run Island Eagle at 1350 RPM, and have never had a problem.

All in all, I'd rate this as pretty low on the worry front.

Scott Welch
Island Eagle
Click to expand...

When I tried to do so, I was not able to find propeller power curves for any of the Detroit series of 71 cubic inches per cylinder engines. I also have a vague recollection that the Detroit engines handle low speed better than some diesels so I cannot argue the point. The Detroit engines are good for about 10,000 hour or more before needing attention if maintained properly. The stacks also run cooler because more than three times the cylinder volume is pushed through the engine by the roots blower which is nice for insulation of the stacks for heat. I can remember putting my hand on a fishing boat stack with no insulation and being able to keep it there it was running so cool. The captain said to try it and I was really surprised. They can make a lot of noise; though, when run near full power. These engines also are rumored to use about one third more fuel than some engines because of the power needed to run the roots blower. If I remember correctly, the normal RPM range is 1800 to 2200 so the RPMs you give really seem low to me but maybe all is good.
 
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Art said:
Scott – Congrats!

IMHO: Those three boats are the best selection yet offered for GG and Meme and family... at least for stable, well outfitted, and comfortable starters that could make them pleased for their first years of marine life. After that sky’s the limit! Hope they see the light.
Click to expand...

Art,
How about if I just sit back and you can tell me which boat is good for my family (that you have never met). When you are done picking the boat, because you know us best, I will go buy it and then we will be forever delighted with it :smitten: because you said that this is the way it should be:lol:
 
westwinds said:
Crunched a few more numbers. Say that it is decided to run the John Deere 6048TFM50 engines at 45% of the maximum continuous power rating of 154 horsepower because this is more conservative than 40% to prevent slobbering. This means the boat now goes 8.12 knots at 1830 RPM, uses 7.6 gallons per hour and gets 1.07 miles per gallon.

Say the boat is low on fuel so lets go 5 knots at 1100 RPM, use 2.2 gallons per hour and get 2.27 miles per gallon and worry about running at 75% power for an hour when there is plenty of fuel.

The speed length formulas from which I take these numbers are for an average boat. These numbers may vary depending on the actual boat. If you have a long narrow beam boat such as this: http://www.gerrmarine.com/power_70.html and look at Iron Heart boat, the speed length ratio can go beyond 1.34 as the maximum hull speed.

For any particular boat, it would be wise to do actual fuel consumption and speed under no wind and no current conditions, making a run in either direction to average out just in case there is a little bit of wind and/or current. Make sure the bottom of the boat and the propeller are clean

The 6068TFM50 John Deere engine can be pushed beyond the 154 horsepower to 225 horsepower for 5% of the time, say if you have a storm trying to push you onto the breakers. Well in that case, I guess forget the 5% and just get out of there. Anyway that extra horsepower is available under really adverse conditions so use it if needed.
Click to expand...

They are representing a 1500 nm range. They are also representing 1500rpm = 10/gallons hr @ 8.5knots with generators on.

I'm uncertain how a gallon a mile, with a 800 gallon tank could equate to 1500nm range. So, to get the 1500nm would you have to run the boat at 5 knots?
 
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GalaxyGirl said:
Art, How about if I just sit back and you can tell me which boat is good for my family (that you have never met). When you are done picking the boat, because you know us best, I will go buy it and then we will be forever delighted with it
Click to expand...

I think that the point that Art is making is that the other boats you have suggested would be unremitting pits of despair and would quickly soak up every penny you have and then some. These ones, while not perfect, would at least be vessels that will have a hope in hell of getting away from the dock without major expenditures.

As always, my standard caveat: make the broker send 100 high-quality pictures taken within the past 30 days. At least 20 have to be from the engine room.

Scott Welch
Island Eagle
 
GalaxyGirl said:
Art,
How about if I just sit back and you can tell me which boat is good for my family (that you have never met). When you are done picking the boat, because you know us best, I will go buy it and then we will be forever delighted with it :smitten: because you said that this is the way it should be:lol:
Click to expand...

Im so glad to hear that GG...
Simply makes me feel good all over... !! :dance: :rofl: :lol: :speed boat:
As always, good luck with your choice :ermm:

Mine are just IMHO suggestions... for you to dwell upon :ermm:
 
GalaxyGirl said:
Do you guys think the Florida Bay Coaster will be okay to make Carribean runs?

Also, the shallow draft 4' 6" should put me back on the ICW?
Click to expand...

GG, look at the name. It even has Bay and Coaster in it. It was never designed for passage making. I'm sure I will be corrected if I'm wrong here, but I think one was lost near the Patapsco River on the Chesapeake Bay. No, I would not take it to the Caribbean although some may have.

In my opinion the Defever would be a much better choice for you.
 
IslandEagle said:
I think that the point that Art is making is that the other boats you have suggested would be unremitting pits of despair and would quickly soak up every penny you have and then some. These ones, while not perfect, would at least be vessels that will have a hope in hell of getting away from the dock without major expenditures.

As always, my standard caveat: make the broker send 100 high-quality pictures taken within the past 30 days. At least 20 have to be from the engine room.

Scott Welch
Island Eagle
Click to expand...

Thanks, Scott - you hit the nail on the head!

GG, I mean no offence to you... just hope you can see the picture as it really is; as those with decades marine experience know it is! Like Scott implies... the wrong choice of boat can eat up enough $$$$$ and time/effort to bother even those with more money than God! Maybe you have that much time and money??
 
GalaxyGirl said:
They are representing a 1500 nm range. They are also representing 1500rpm = 10/gallons hr @ 8.5knots with generators on.

I'm uncertain how a gallon a mile, with a 800 gallon tank could equate to 1500nm range. So, to get the 1500nm would you have to run the boat at 5 knots?
Click to expand...

I have not made any calculations yet on getting a 1500 nm range for a particular speed, but looking at some of my earlier calculations, I cannot see how this distance adds up. In post 209, Northern Spy says that Jay Benfort, the designer of the 60 Florida Bay Cruiser, is easy to approach. Here is his web site: Benford Design Group so maybe call him and see what he says the range is for this boat. That information could then be used to perhaps get a lower price for the boat. Come to think of it, he might have an idea about what the boat is worth. He could also advise on the statility of this boat and what kind of adverse weather the boat can handle. He also has a book that I think covers this boat: http://www.amazon.com/Cruising-Desi...F8&qid=1364272871&sr=1-1&keywords=jay+benford
 
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GG you might check out the write up from the designed on the florida Bay Coasters.

Benford Design Group

I was VERY amazed at the stability of these craft. Like many others that look at their boxiness I thought they might be a tad top heavy, but that seems not to be the case.

The link below is an article spicifically adressing the stability of the Florida Bay Coasters.

http://www.benford.us/pdf/WhatAboutStability.pdf

Pretty impressive!
 
The Benford Design Group web site also has a link to an owners group web site that has a lot of information. The home page has a picture with a broken link so ignore that as the site is still a good one. Florida Bay Coasters
 
So much experience. So much good advice. So little learning going on!!! Blah Blah Blah!!!h
 
I inquired to the cruising capability of the Irony, to the architect Jay and this was his reply.....

Yes. Irony was built in Guatemala and came 1,000 miles across the Caribbean to Florida on her first voyage. The captain who did the trip is a friend of mine and he told me about the horrific gale the went through on the way. He said that the boat did well and no one feared that they would not complete the trip safely. Which they did.
 
meatsea said:
I inquired to the cruising capability of the Irony, to the architect Jay and this was his reply.....

Yes. Irony was built in Guatemala and came 1,000 miles across the Caribbean to Florida on her first voyage. The captain who did the trip is a friend of mine and he told me about the horrific gale the went through on the way. He said that the boat did well and no one feared that they would not complete the trip safely. Which they did.
Click to expand...

The Coaster would make a great dock queen condo, but they sure are ugly. Uglier than the Eagle! ;)

For what its worth, :flowers: I would buy the Choy Lee over the Defever and the Defever over the Coaster. All three would make a great live aboard, you can get financing if needed, but the Choy Lee has the best potential to cross an ocean and a recognize name for world class yachts. :thumb:
 
Jeez Phil, I think the Eagle is a beautiful vessel, hope you don't let her hear you, you might hurt her feelings.:smitten:
And for what it is, the Irony is beautiful too, specially as a liveaboard,
now that is comfort, and just for the record, no one is talking bout crossing oceans in her.


Phil Fill said:
The Coaster would make a great dock queen condo, but they sure are ugly. Uglier than the Eagle! ;)

For what its worth, :flowers: I would buy the Choy Lee over the Defever and the Defever over the Coaster. All three would make a great live aboard, you can get financing if needed, but the Choy Lee has the best potential to cross an ocean and a recognize name for world class yachts. :thumb:
Click to expand...
 
Now that we have quite a few different brands earmarked in one place,
with the help of many here:thumb:, we have mucho info...
the proof will be in the pudding as far as what feels right in the gut, upon boarding and sea trials!!!
And as far as Europe goes, I like the idea of shipping it over, less complicated,
less wear & tear, less unknowns.
Feels good to have options.
Let the games begin! Now for the really fun bit,
can't wait to go-see!
:Thanx:
 
meatsea said:
Jeez Phil, I think the Eagle is a beautiful vessel, hope you don't let her hear you, you might hurt her feelings.:smitten:
And for what it is, the Irony is beautiful too, specially as a liveaboard,
now that is comfort, and just for the record, no one is talking bout crossing oceans in her.
Click to expand...


The first time I saw her, my wife want to go on her, I said, "Why would you want to go in that old ugly trawler? :confused: So to me its will be always my wife's old ugly trawler. Not what I/we had in mind when we first start look for a bigger boat. Bayliner, Searay, Ocean, Tolly anything that had some speed and nice sweeping lines! She knows deep down I love her as she is high maintence and pampered. My wife bought/wanted her as she just felt comfortable and right. Good Female intuition and total changed our life. :thumb:

I realize you know the Coaster is a live aboard, protect coastal boat, but still ugly. If you go on enough boats, you will know what boat fells right for you.:flowers:
 
We saw one Florida Bay Coaster 60

In Clearwater Bay HK , clealy she could be a good live aboard boat ...in Marina, river or lake .
But clearly I never want go at sea with this boat.
If someone know the stability curve of this boat or her avs , I am affraid it was not a very hight stabilty.:eek::horse:
 
The maximum stability

ksanders said:
GG you might check out the write up from the designed on the florida Bay Coasters.

Benford Design Group

I was VERY amazed at the stability of these craft. Like many others that look at their boxiness I thought they might be a tad top heavy, but that seems not to be the case.

The link below is an article spicifically adressing the stability of the Florida Bay Coasters.

http://www.benford.us/pdf/WhatAboutStability.pdf

Pretty impressive!
Click to expand...


Of the hull is reached at 25 °... after that the big curve it is the work of the udge volume of superstucture ... if nothing will be floaded before

On this scale arm is in feet ?
How many sqm vindage on the side ?
 
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GalaxyGirl said:
They are representing a 1500 nm range. They are also representing 1500rpm = 10/gallons hr @ 8.5knots with generators on.

I'm uncertain how a gallon a mile, with a 800 gallon tank could equate to 1500nm range. So, to get the 1500nm would you have to run the boat at 5 knots?
Click to expand...


Sixty foot Florida Bay Coaster with two John Deere 6048TFM50 engines without generators:

No way can I come close to their calculations. If you want me to crunch more numbers I can but I think the following shows someone is way off. Other boats this size get approximately the same fuel consumpiton so I think I am right.

Here are the numbers from my 205 and 217 postings:


I tried to put spaces or tabs in the following table but no luck. Maybe you can cut and paste to word and put tabs in to line it up.

Knots RPM Gallons/Hour Miles/Gallon

9.14 2000 10.4 .88
8.12 1830* 7.6 1.07
7.62 1666** 6.2 1.23
5.0 1100 2.2 2.27


* 45% power
** 38% power

This boat could get even less than the miles per gallon I calculated because it has such a wide beam. Real measurements are what count as my equations assume an average boat, so contact Jay Benford or someone at the users group web site.
 
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I guess beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. I like shippy old boats, not
plastic sleek lines though anyway.
Course I'd cruise on the FBC and island hop with good weather watching.
That said I wouldn't step foot on a big cruiseline ship ever across any body of water, just not my cup a tea :eek: those monsters scare me.

Phil Fill said:
I realize you know the Coaster is a live aboard, protect coastal boat, but still ugly. If you go on enough boats, you will know what boat fells right for you.:flowers:
Click to expand...
 
meatsea said:
... I wouldn't step foot on a big cruiseline ship ever across any body of water, just not my cup a tea :eek: those monsters scare me.
Click to expand...

Cruise lines have had their problems the last few months what with engine room fires, generators quitting, running aground with loss of life, and intestinal virus problems:eek:
 
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We have been going on about fuel consumption and miles per gallon; however, these calculations do not take into consideration a dirty bottom and propeller that takes more fuel, and current and wind which can increase or decrease fuel use. What's the true miles per gallon? Is there going to be enough fuel? If this device Maretron : Marine Electronic Instruments is used with GPS that shows speed over ground, then a person knows what their true miles per gallon is and whether they can make their chosen port.
 
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