Running engine w no load

markpierce said:

Nevertheless, I expect the Coot's 2010 John Deere diesel engine to outlive me. After all, I had a 63-year head start.

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Agreed! But, I hope for your sake you out live the Deere engines' long life!

This has been an interesting thread, to say the least. Pros & cons on whichever route you take. Me, I'll stick to what I've been doing since 1995.
History outweighs opinions, though well intended, that have been gleaned from the Internet.

"I've heard that running your engine under no load is the "worst" thing you can do to it.
I've also heard that letting a diesel sit unused is the "worst" thing you can do to it."

The WORST thing you can do is to toss out Da Book that came with the engine.

Most will include a tome on "out of service for over 30 days" or something similar.

Ideling in the slip is the worst thing you can do to the engine , instead of following the engine builders advice.

Ideling under load at the dock is the WORST thing you can do to the Marina as a prop will move a lot of mud or sand in a very short time , unless the marina has 20 ft of water at your slip.

Either follow Da Book , including oil changes on time in the engine , not just hours , or go OUT FOR A BOAT RIDE!!

3 or so hours even if only monthly will "solve" a huge number of boating problems , before they happen.

IF the boat IS a Dock Queen , or sits all season, admit it and preserve the engine as the builder requires.

I mention this with my feet kicked up... Ahhh; how, simple affordable, and easy it is to deal with gasoline engines!

Just sayen!!

Sure , if you don't mind sleeping with a couple hundred gallons of gasoline, mixing humidity and ignition systems and changing engines every 1500 hrs.

To each his own. Everything is a compromise but for this application, I'll take diesels any day.

FlyWright said:

Sure , if you don't mind sleeping with a couple hundred gallons of gasoline, mixing humidity and ignition systems and changing engines every 1500 hrs.

To each his own. Everything is a compromise but for this application, I'll take diesels any day.

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I agree. For a boat you'll be sleeping on and living on, at least a few days at a time, a diesel is safer. There are many other advantages as well. The only disadvantage is initial cost.

Awww Al give him a break,
That means if I had a gas engine it'd be 2/3rds worn out .............NO WAY!
Diesel is nice'n safe and twice as economical (fuel only) BUT THAT's it.
Gas engines are MUCH smoother and quieter and last a long time. My 73 Buick has never had any serious maintenance .... Heads never been off and it's really strong. Could use a carb rebuild but it runs perfect all the time. If it sits for a week or so it looses it's prime but that all. It's seen new shocks, batteries, the usual break work ect but to say the car has lasted and gone the distance ( over 100K) is an understatement. 100K is not high millage now but in it's time it was. Did some numbers and you are closer than I thought. 100000 miles at 50 mph is 2000 hrs. Not all that much actually. I've gone half that w my Mitsu and consider it basically a new engine. I wonder what they're say'in a new 350 Crusader w fuel injection would do re life expectancy re hours? So it looks like a modern gas engine should go 5000hrs and. A diesel 10 to 15K. I'll start a new thread unless someone beats me to it ....... I'm at Barns & Noble on the I-pad.

By the way does it say "posted on my I-pad" ??? I see a lot of that.

FlyWright said:

Sure , if you don't mind sleeping with a couple hundred gallons of gasoline, mixing humidity and ignition systems and changing engines every 1500 hrs.

To each his own. Everything is a compromise but for this application, I'll take diesels any day.

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Well...

- No smell of raw diesel fuel
- No odor from diesel exhaust
- Little to no mechanical break downs - cheaper mechanics and parts costs and more mechanics available if required
- Super quick & easy maintenance and service with elbow-room while working - on a twin screw that is
- Extended trolling & lower than usual rpm is no problem / good gph cruising economy at low rpm, i.e. hull speed or just below - although diesel is usually gets better gph
- Additive that keeps gasoline real clean for extended periods, i.e. Soltron!
- Relatively low temp exhaust lines
- 4,000 +/- hour gas engine life-time when used gently-correctly and oil with filter changed regularly
- Total engine replacement cost 1/4 to 1/8 of diesel
- Weight aboard approx 1/2 lower per engine
- Less frequent fuel filter services
- Explosion chance negligible to none when all items are well kept and there is a good airflow vent-system in engine and tank compartment with blower-fan used appropriately prior to startup.

Now: I’m just pointing out a few items the way I see em; and, also for what actually exists/occurs. Not saying that having and using diesel is a bad thing - at all. As you mention, "To each his own". And, in large/heavy boats diesel's high hp and torque capabilities are surely needed. I have been aboard many diesel cruisers (small, mid-sized, and large). My family had diesel while I grew up, gasoline too... in small and mid-sized boats.

I'm just saying that diesel is not for me and my Admiral while we own a rather small (mid-sized?) pleasure cruiser, i.e. 34' loa, 32' lwl, 12'6 beam, 21K gross lb tri cabin Tollycraft self contained pleasure cruiser!

Happy Boating Daze - To ALL!!!

FlyWright said:

Sure , if you don't mind sleeping with a couple hundred gallons of gasoline, mixing humidity and ignition systems and changing engines every 1500 hrs.

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A little diesel smell sure beats the hell out of a little gasoline smell. I agree with the above. If it's safety that's important to you, diesel wins hands down. I can't imagine ever buying a gas cruiser again. I did once and sold it 10 months from the day I purchased it. The definition of "pucker factor" is the smell of gasoline when you're offshore 15 miles.

SeaHorse II said:

A little diesel smell sure beats the hell out of a little gasoline smell. I agree with the above. If it's safety that's important to you, diesel wins hands down. I can't imagine ever buying a gas cruiser again. I did once and sold it 10 months from the day I purchased it. The definition of "pucker factor" is the smell of gasoline when you're offshore 15 miles.

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All it takes is... Maintenance, Maintenance, Maintenance!!! :lol:

Art said:

All it takes is... Maintenance, Maintenance, Maintenance!!! :lol:

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Maintenance is good, but you can never guarantee a part won't fail without prior symptoms.

Obviously a lot of people here have never run a gasoline engine in commercial service.

Most couldn't blow themselves up if they tried.

Now on the other hand I've seen gas boats blow for maybe something as simple as a static charge....but In my experience ,...I've seen more diesel boats sink from a variety of reasons than I've seen gas boats blow or catch fire.

manyboats said:

By the way does it say "posted on my I-pad" ??? I see a lot of that.

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If it did, you'd see it when you looked at your post.

Thanks Marin I figured maybe not.

Eric-- Almost every post I make to TF is from this iPad via AT&T 3G. But I have not set up a signature with "sent from my iPad" except for e-mail.

I mention this with my feet kicked up... Ahhh; how, simple affordable, and easy it is to deal with gasoline engines!

At 200 hours a year probably 95% of boaters would have far lower lifetime coats with Gas than Diesel.

At 2000 hours EVERY year , the diesel might be a better deal.

The hassle here is RELIGION ,emotion, not reality ,

Gas vs Diesel, Twin vs Single ,CQR vs Danforth ,Chain vs Nylon , none are rational discussions , mostly "Feelings" .

So the diesel folks will justify 20X rebuild prices , the twin screw folks will tout docking in 40K crosswinds , etc etc , forever.

FF said:

At 200 hours a year probably 95% of boaters would have far lower lifetime coats with Gas than Diesel.

At 2000 hours EVERY year , the diesel might be a better deal.

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Thanks Fred,

You are the one that pointed this out to me a long time ago and helped me see the possibilities. I'm now the happy owner of a single engine gasser.

ff said:

i mention this with my feet kicked up... Ahhh; how, simple affordable, and easy it is to deal with gasoline engines!

At 200 hours a year probably 95% of boaters would have far lower lifetime coats with gas than diesel.

At 2000 hours every year , the diesel might be a better deal.

The hassle here is religion ,emotion, not reality ,

gas vs diesel, twin vs single ,cqr vs danforth ,chain vs nylon , none are rational discussions , mostly "feelings" .

So the diesel folks will justify 20x rebuild prices , the twin screw folks will tout docking in 40k crosswinds , etc etc , forever.

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very very well said fred!

Same goes for low rpm engines and running low rpm. It's 98% "feelings".

So that's it Marin. One needs to enable the device to say "sent from my i-pad". Why would anybody need or want others to know what device the message originated from? Must be advertising for apple. I mention it myself at times to explain why I don't post a picture or quote in my usual way. Does "sent from my i-pad" say "lookout here comes a handicapped post"? It does for me but I don't take the i-pad seriously. Mostly just post from Starbucks.

manyboats said:

............. Does "sent from my i-pad" say "lookout here comes a handicapped post"? ............... .

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:lol: :lol: :lol:

I have a question: If I have been running my Perkins 6.354 every month or two at just above idle for 30 minutes-ish to circulate the oil and sometimes let it "warm up" for 10-15 minutes before I leave the slip for about 400 hours of total operation, what kind of damage have I done?

Before we get too carried away saying that a gasoline engine is more cost efficient than a diesel for most boaters, let's remember to factor in the higher resale price of the boat when that time comes.

For me, gasoline (it's no longer correct to say gasoline since the government mandated that it be adulterated with ethanol) makes sense for runabouts, center consoles, etc. For trawlers, I like the safety and long term reliability of diesel.

Tom.B said:

I have a question: If I have been running my Perkins 6.354 every month or two at just above idle for 30 minutes-ish to circulate the oil and sometimes let it "warm up" for 10-15 minutes before I leave the slip for about 400 hours of total operation, what kind of damage have I done?

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Probably none...but you would be better off if you could bring it up to 1000-1200 rpm in gear.

Eventually if you don't think you'll use it for 3 months or so at a time...pickling it would be better.

Tom.B said:

I have a question: If I have been running my Perkins 6.354 every month or two at just above idle for 30 minutes-ish to circulate the oil and sometimes let it "warm up" for 10-15 minutes before I leave the slip for about 400 hours of total operation, what kind of damage have I done?

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You've increased the USA's dependence on foreign oil and contributed to global warming. And added 400 hours to your total engine hours. That's about it.

Tom.B said:

I have a question: If I have been running my Perkins 6.354 every month or two at just above idle for 30 minutes-ish to circulate the oil and sometimes let it "warm up" for 10-15 minutes before I leave the slip for about 400 hours of total operation, what kind of damage have I done?

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ABSOLUTELY NO DAMAGE DONE!!!

You've done the engine a favor....especially if it is colder weather. A lot of people make a lot of hay out of letting a diesel "idle".... and a lot of it is nonsense or urban myth.... Diesel engines can idle for hours on end with no adverse effects other than burnt fuel. Older mechanical engines go on and on and on.....and keep going. As long as they are serviced and get clean fuel, they can run for weeks on end.... Newer engines with ECM's...the computers will not like it, and some in semi's have a programmed shutdown period...that is the choice of the owner. Several of the major trucking fleets have those settings on their trucks.

I know what I have said is going to start an argument...but hey, the simple fact is: If its properly maintained....you can idle it for more than 30 minutes without trouble or worry of damage.

I have 2 1978 vintage 6.354's...and I do exactly the same thing you do. I also have 20 years experience running heavy diesels in semi's in all kinds of terrain....

manyboats said:

. One needs to enable the device to say "sent from my i-pad". Why would anybody need or want others to know what device the message originated from? Must be advertising for apple. I mention it myself at times to explain why I don't post a picture or quote in my usual way. Does "sent from my i-pad" say "lookout here comes a handicapped post"? It does for me but I don't take the i-pad seriously. Mostly just post from Starbucks.

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No, you need to create a signature with whatever reference to the iPad in it you want. So far as I can tell it's not like my Blackberry that automatically attaches a "Sent from my Blackberry" statement to the end of an e-mail.

As to not taking the iPad seriously you'll need to talk to the pilots in Boeing Flight Test, Alaska Airlines, Southwest Airlines, and more about that. The iPad has totally replaced that big black bag they all used to carry. I produced a project for the Chief Production Pilot for the 787 program last year and we used a 787 that was being readied for delivery. He walked on the plane with an iPad in his hand. That's all. Everything he needed for the flight--- checklists, approach and departure plates, airport maps, and a zillion different kinds of forms from manifest to Customs-- is on his iPad. No more paper.

Mechanics like the ones at Nowegian Air Shuttle are using iPads now when they work on the airline's planes. The iPads connect wirelessly with the airlines central maintenance computer in the hangar so they can call up the 737's maintenance manuals and drawings. And when we visted them back in 2011 they were running a Beta test of an app they (or someone) had developed that let the mechanics use their iPads to connect directly to their planes' on-board fault reporting system.

I use mine for work all over the planet. I have apps that "fool" the iPad into thinking it's my PC at work and so it runs MS Office programs like Word, Excel, PowerPoint, etc. I have an app that has detailed road maps for the entire planet, and since I have a wifi/cellular iPad with its built-in GPS I can use it to find our way around even out in the middle of China with no connectivity at all. This has proven to be extremely useful in China, The Middle East, and a few weeks ago, Brazil.

I even use it for slating shots with a camera slate app. And when I have time, like during a ten hour plane ride or in my hotel room at night, I work on my two current book projects on it.

I was skeptical, too, before I bought one. Now that I've had this one for a year I would give up my regular laptop before I gave up the iPad.

Thanks Marin .. very informative. I however spend my time working in the yard, on my OB boats, helping Chris w the garden, having coffee at Starbucks (w the i-pad), Working on Willy, reading novels and many other things that leave me w/o enough time to become proficient on either the i-mac or pad. Need to get my photo's arranged properly and don't even know how to do that. Perhaps next winter. I think I understand the "sent from" thing though. It's advertising and a statement that the sender does not surround themselves w old fashioned things. It's the opposite of going into a bar and announcing that you drive a Buick sedan. Gives the sender status.

I dunno, Eric. Depending on the vintage of the Buick sedan and its condition it might give the owner more status than the guy who drives up in a new Ferrari.

"Diesel engines can idle for hours on end with no adverse effects other than burnt fuel".

The independiant operators in the OTR industry would disagree with you.

In the "old days" the engines would idle all night providing heat or air cond and electric power for an inverter.

Fuel costs (and the air police) made an APU a less costly way to operate overnight.

Fewer oil changes (done on testing) and about 40% more miles between overhauls has delighted them.

"no adverse effects "

If cylinder glazing and burnishing, rings sticking, lower compression and more blow-by contaminating the oil is not adverse , I don't know what is!

JAT said:

ABSOLUTELY NO DAMAGE DONE!!!

You've done the engine a favor....especially if it is colder weather. A lot of people make a lot of hay out of letting a diesel "idle".... and a lot of it is nonsense or urban myth.... Diesel engines can idle for hours on end with no adverse effects other than burnt fuel. Older mechanical engines go on and on and on.....and keep going. As long as they are serviced and get clean fuel, they can run for weeks on end.... Newer engines with ECM's...the computers will not like it, and some in semi's have a programmed shutdown period...that is the choice of the owner. Several of the major trucking fleets have those settings on their trucks.

I know what I have said is going to start an argument...but hey, the simple fact is: If its properly maintained....you can idle it for more than 30 minutes without trouble or worry of damage.

I have 2 1978 vintage 6.354's...and I do exactly the same thing you do. I also have 20 years experience running heavy diesels in semi's in all kinds of terrain....

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It depends on the engine, don't go making generalizations. Detroit, for their two strokes turbo engines, specifically tells you not to idle your engines with no load for any length of time, or cold run them and shut them down.
Consult the engine manufacturer's operating and storage requirements.

You are better off installing block heaters to keep the temps even when shut down, and going for a half hour boat ride every now and then if you have the luxury of being in the water. People in cold regions store their on the hard boat half the year or more and the engines never run during that time.

No Marin .... just "Buick sedan".

Buick = old people.

I am old. Have 2 Buicks.

Just read on yahoo they are selling 3 times as many Buick's in China as they are in the US. If you include the rest of the world ......................... .