Yes, 710 horse power means a planing hull or semi-displacement so not good for bad weather unless you want to try and out run a storm. Also the range will not be much trying to feed all those horses. This is again one of those direct drive propeller boats, not efficient.
Maybe this one?
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sunchaser
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She was presented with plan B, C and D months ago.
BTW, there are two marvelous newer BIG Defevers on the west coast, not just Art DeFever's own boat mentioned above. The other is a 60'er with cockpit located in Seattle. I know for a fact the 60 did San Diego to Seattle last fall on its own bottom with no refuel stops. Sounds like blue water capable to me.
sunchaser
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710 HP means little in describing the hull shape and sea keeping ability. I've seen the twin to this hull out of the water and it is not a planing boat.
DeFevers are not good for bad weather you say? Quite the opposite, they are amongst the best.
Better have a marine architect comment. The reason I flagged this is the horse power is way over what is needed for a displacement hull for this size boat.
This boat is a hard one for me to comment on because it has an 11 foot extension. Originally I think this might have been a semi-displacement hull. I could be wrong. No mention is made about whether there is a transmission with reduction gearing normally used with the displacement hull resulting in good fuel economy. The 8-71 Detroit Diesel can be run at lower engine speed (RPM) than some diesels, but I am not sure if you can get the RPM low enough to be economical without the slobbering problem. Maybe propellers that vary the pitch depending on load would help, but a marine architect would need to comment. I notice one of the engines has very low hours. The other might be ready for a rebuild. These engines are normally set for 318 horsepower each but in this application 435 horsepower is what is developed and it really wears out these engines very fast. This is another reason I think this is originally a semi-displacement as one engine would be plenty even running at 40% of the 318 horsepower rating if it were a displacement hull. The 40% power is where problems with slobbering start to occur. If run at displacement speed on one engine, I think it would probably get a mile per gallon, but steering might be a problem at this low speed. A semi-displacement hull is not as sea worthy as a displacement hull. This might be a very nice plan B boat. I wonder if there would be a problem with resale when you go to plan A with this boat.
I thought originally you wanted a North Sea type trawler for safety in bad weather. I guess this is Plan A. In reading Voyaging Under Power, though, only Cheoy Lee, Romsdal and Malahide made trawlers with enough cabins for your family, and there might be some question about the Cheoy Lee in bad weather. You do not like wood and I think Romsdal and Malahide are that material. If you go to a trawler converted to living, you run into the problem of no ports for ventilation and daylight. I think this is why my mind started considering motor sailor boats. Here is a link about that: The Ultimate Motor Sailor - Lucille
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GalaxyGirl
Senior Member
Yes, I was definitely thinking of the Sea Ranger as a Plan B boat. The broker responded to my e-mail. For what it's woth (probably not much) he says the fuel burn is 15 gallons at 10 knots.
I am also concerned about trying to sell a 75' boat later. I feel like I am the only person out there that could use a boat this long, with the exception of the richie rich folks, of course,
and they arn't buying this kind of boat.
RT Firefly
Enigma
Greetings,
Ms. GG. "...concerned about trying to sell a 75' boat later." Good grief! I'm outa here..
Ms. GG. "...concerned about trying to sell a 75' boat later." Good grief! I'm outa here..
The Detroit two cycle diesel may last only 200 hours with injectors that really spray a lot of diesel into the cylinders. Just too much heat is developed and it destroys the cylinders. When these engines are used on over the road trucks, they last 10,000 hours and that's pedal to the metal use. All it takes is a different size injector to do that and these cost about $100 each rebuilt.
Back in the 90s or early 2000s Grand Banks built three GB66s. Similar in style to the GB52 Europa, the GB66 was a total failure. The buyer of the first one insisted on a fully enclosed (aka heavy), heated, glass-windowed pilothouse in place of the open flying bridge that was originally planned. Same idea as the pilothouse on the boat in GG's link. When the buyers of hulls 2 and 3 saw what the first guy had done, they insisted on the same thing.
One of these boats was commissioned at the then-GB dealer in Bellingham and we walked past this butt-ugly monster every time we went to our boat. The lead shipwright on the commissioning team was a friend who'd done some work on our boat from time to time. He told us the GB66 was amazingly unstable. Simply walking from one side of the boat deck to the other set the boat to rocking. The half-serious joke among the commissioning team was that if you didn't want to get seasick while working on the boat when it was tied to the dock, the solution was to turn on the stabilizers.
The boat in GGs link appears to me to potentially have the same issue.
Grand Banks made the three GB66s and then abandoned the model. A few years later they created their Aleutian line which is a whole different concept.
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ksanders
Moderator Emeritus
GG You seem to be painting yourself into a corner trying to get a boat with enough cabins to suit your families wants on your budget, which I'm guessing is somewhere south of $500K all total. Perhaps you have more than that to spend, but I think this guess is pretty accurate.
I know you've heard this before, but I'm going to say it anyway. The boats you're pointing out are on the very expensive side of their lifecycles. They are of an age, and of a condition where the boats need some serious restoration work to get them back to a fully seaworthy state. They will also cost you allot in ongoing maintenance because of the age of the systems, and the sheer number of different pieces of old equipment involved.
I know you have a dream, and I support that, heck everyone here does. The problem is how do you make that dream come true, and not find yourself with a boat you cannot afford to maintain.
Thats easy, look at smaller boats in better condition. Bunk up with your mom, or sleep on the watchstanders berth in the pilothouse. Make the kids bunk up together.
You can live your dream, but its going to take some compromises, or you're going to have to cough up more money on a better condition boat.
BTW, if you've got the $$ and think the boats you're looking at are great bargains, think again. An inexpensive boat for its size and age can actually be more expensive in the long run than buying a better condition example in the first place.
I know you've heard this before, but I'm going to say it anyway. The boats you're pointing out are on the very expensive side of their lifecycles. They are of an age, and of a condition where the boats need some serious restoration work to get them back to a fully seaworthy state. They will also cost you allot in ongoing maintenance because of the age of the systems, and the sheer number of different pieces of old equipment involved.
I know you have a dream, and I support that, heck everyone here does. The problem is how do you make that dream come true, and not find yourself with a boat you cannot afford to maintain.
Thats easy, look at smaller boats in better condition. Bunk up with your mom, or sleep on the watchstanders berth in the pilothouse. Make the kids bunk up together.
You can live your dream, but its going to take some compromises, or you're going to have to cough up more money on a better condition boat.
BTW, if you've got the $$ and think the boats you're looking at are great bargains, think again. An inexpensive boat for its size and age can actually be more expensive in the long run than buying a better condition example in the first place.
Daddyo
Guru
What model? My 48 is basically full displacement and has 3500nm range with a very low COG.
No NO! RT - Please...
Don't leave us abandoned to the perils of choosing a craft for the crafty! We need you sardonic-isms! We B left bereft of what to do or say as the crafty craft choosets "float" all over the map toward incorrectness of choice with no background to understand how they ever got there!!
No NO! RT - Please Stay... We all need other Firefly spot-on vid-short shockers that stand as hallmark to your piercing, intrepid ways! Closure to this clearly indiscernible search for “what-ifs” can surely meet with failure if the RTF squad of reverse osmoted thinking were to disappear from TF posting ranks!
RT Firefly
Enigma
Hello there!
While we're on the subject of Defever, and since I can't have my Sutton
maybe some would like to comment on this one:
1989 Defever Long Range Cruiser Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
Seriously guys, all the help & knowledge has not been taken lightly.
While we're on the subject of Defever, and since I can't have my Sutton
maybe some would like to comment on this one:
1989 Defever Long Range Cruiser Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
Seriously guys, all the help & knowledge has not been taken lightly.
Dreams, dreams, dreams, If you and GG are serious, you go to inspect a choosen boat. Take a Naval Engineer or Architect with you. All your posts here will not bring you one inch more closer to your dreams.
My 2 centavos
You at Sea-I have read all your posts and all the replies while you and your daughter have been on your quest for a boat. First-to Nsail's question, I would be pretty sure that this boat has twins-a single 335 hp Cat 3306 would leave this boat seriously underpowered. The listing quotes a 3,000 mile range on 3,200+gallons of fuel. That clearly indicates twin 3306's.
Second-from all your posts describing your wants and needs, and the different boats you have looked at-I would be on the first plane to Lauderdale to look a this boat. I would have s surveyor meet me at the airport, and spend 2-3 days going over the boat. I know it is at the high end of what you want to spend, but it has always sounded like you guys will be cash buyers and cash talks, loud. This is, and should survey out to be, a very good boat, the seller wants to get rid of it soon. Put all that together with cash in hand, and you may find yourself with a very good deal on a boat that seems well-suited to your needs and is even on the same cost as you.
Just an aside for your daughter-you certainly could make it across the Atlantic in this boat, high bow or not.
Good luck!
Second-from all your posts describing your wants and needs, and the different boats you have looked at-I would be on the first plane to Lauderdale to look a this boat. I would have s surveyor meet me at the airport, and spend 2-3 days going over the boat. I know it is at the high end of what you want to spend, but it has always sounded like you guys will be cash buyers and cash talks, loud. This is, and should survey out to be, a very good boat, the seller wants to get rid of it soon. Put all that together with cash in hand, and you may find yourself with a very good deal on a boat that seems well-suited to your needs and is even on the same cost as you.
Just an aside for your daughter-you certainly could make it across the Atlantic in this boat, high bow or not.
Good luck!
I punched some numbers using formulas from Dave Gerr’s Propeller Handbook. I used a speed length ratio of 1.2 and a water line length of 70 feet. This is the formula where the speed length ratio of 1.34 gives the hull speed. If both engines are run at 1500 RPM and developing 100 horsepower each, the fuel consumption is 5.6 gallons per hour per engine. The speed for the boat is 10 knots and the nautical miles per gallon is 0.9
I like the boat. I say this not having seen a surveyor report and a diesel mechanic report. Does this boat have any ballast? That helps in a storm a lot.
Here is a link to the engine propeller curves: http://marine.cat.com/cda/files/1013146/7/Spec Sheets - Cat 3306B DITA Propulsion.pdf
Phil Fill
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Now that you sort of figure out the boat, before you buy one, you might want to go back in evaluate the dock/slip and yard availability as you went form a 50 ft to now75 ft. Make sure for a slip you have Plan A, Plan B and maybe even plan C. As marines can and do give 30 day to vacate notices, many have rules/regulations concerning children/pets, and just like boats, marains have a limited amount of resources, dock power, water, sanitation, garbage.
Live a boards to NOT have the same rights as living on the dirt. Every live aboard we know has been giving a 30 day notice for one reason or another. So we always have a back up plan! The reason is that the boat belongs to you and you can AWAYS move the boat to another locations, which many times is the case within 30 days.
Also there are pluses and minuses of owning a large boat, and fuel cost is a small % of the total cost on owning. So discussing the amount of fuel it burn is a waste of time, except if you are pushing the range of the boat. You will spend more money on diesel heating the boat than you will probable use for cruising.
Don’t get me wrong I would love to have a bigger boat, more closets/drawers/storage for cloths/shoes, but they come with their own problems and expense. Anyway, before you buy or get to far down the road made sure you understand what is required to be a live aboard.
If you decide to look at this boat in Florida, there are several Cheoy Lee 66 LRC you could also look at one with Detroit engines and the other with Cat. The Detroits make more noise which bothers some people:
66' Cheoy Lee LRC
http://www.curtisstokes.net/pdf/brochure-trawler-anhinga.pdf
Maybe this one?
5 State Room 70' Custom NZ Motorsailer US$ 199.000
Randall Burg Yachts
70' Steel NZ Motor Sailor - YouTube
5 State Room 70' Custom NZ Motorsailer US$ 199.000
Randall Burg Yachts
70' Steel NZ Motor Sailor - YouTube
I really like this boat a lot. For instance the galley looks like a place you could prepare a meal while underway with fiddle boards on the edge of tables and what looks like the holders to keep pans on the stove. One would still want to wear a raincoat while preparing food incase a pan did come flying off the stove in bad weather to keep from getting badly burned. A pressure cooker is always nice as the lid is firmly attached. Just looking at the boat, to me it looks like a boat able to take on a gale or worse and might fit the plan A that GG has. I did not see handholds. The pictures did not show the sail plan well so I have no idea what GG would be dealing with there. The sails would give the boat stability. No need for failure prone mechanical devices to keep the boat from rocking. Those engines are adequate for moving the boat at trawler speed. The engines might need work, sails, rust, electronics upgrades? The teak needs to be replaced or removed and deck painted. Need cost estimates for what it would take, but GG would have money left over to upgrade this boat if needed. It's hard to say what this boat is worth and selling it again could be a problem. Any custom boat has this issue whereas a boat like the Cheoy Lee has a well known name and it is possible to do comparrisons on pricing.
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For GG's location, this boat would be problematic. With a mast height of 70' and a draft of 7.5', she would be precluded from many areas on the East Coast, especially the ICW. The standard MLW fixed bridge height on the ICW is 65'. If she is planning on doing any extended East Coast cruising, she would be doing it on the outside for the most part. Plus, is addition to learning how to manage a 70' powerboat, she would also have to learn to sail!
