Heating oil as for boat fuel?

Saw something at this or another forum I visit about a guy using heating oil in his Detroit or Cummings to power his boat.I think it was on the Great Lakes.Does it work?Is it safe and cheeeeeper than reg fuel?Robby in Mobile

Sure it works , in many locations dyed (off road diesel) and heating oil are delivered by the same truck, from the same yard tank.

The downside is both off road and esp if it is from different storage tank, is house fuel is usually not as clean as a better grade.

Since most boats have good rational filtration , only the filter will know.

The cetane rating of house heating oil is below the rating for much diesel, however most big diesels burn it with out making a bit more diesel rattle.

The new horror is the super low sulfur fuel,it gives trucks with very new complex electronic injection about 5% to 7% less fuel mileage.

On out 8v71 we went from 9.2 to 8.9 with the new junk.

On our VW diesel Rabbit , there IS more diesel knock on house fuel, but its 40c-60c a gal cheaper and at onlt 45mpg , we retired folks need to conserve!

-- Edited by FF on Tuesday 19th of May 2009 10:03:59 AM

BornSailor2 wrote:

*I purchase 500 gals a delivery so what I do is add a gal of kerosene to thin the fuel out.*

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No need to buy obscenely overpriced kerosene for that. Number 1 heating oil is already lighter than*#2 diesel*and if you are in the south your heating oil is just high sulfur diesel fuel anyway.

Over the next few years home heating oil will be ultra low sulfur diesel in most states.

"No need to buy obscenely overpriced kerosene for that."

Since the gov will be happy with the denser #2 as well as #1.

Remember the heavier the fuel is per gal the more BTU in the gal.

BornSailor2 wrote:


I believe no. 2 fuel oil is home heating.* No. 1 fuel is Kerosene.* Diesel is Diesel but most fuel oil companies add red dye to No. 2 fuel because of the tax difference.* This is the information I recieved.

BK

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Kerosene is kerosene. sometimes jet fuel is kerosene, sometimes home heating oil is #1 diesel, sometimes it is #2* diesel. Sometimes Stove Oil is jet fuel, sometimes it is kerosene. Soon home heating oil will be ultra low sulfur diesel, until then it might be high sulfur diesel that can't be sold as motor fuel.

Adding a gallon of kerosene to "thin out" whatever is passing as heating oil that day to burn as diesel fuel is a waste of time and money. Paying a huge premium for deodorized or perfumed froo froo lamp oil to mix with diesel fuel is just plain stupid.

*

Adding a gallon of kerosene to "thin out" whatever is passing as heating oil that day to burn as diesel fuel is a waste of time and money.

True enough ,

But if anyone is still cooking with a Primus , kerosene stove, as we prefer in our ocean boat , the addition of a quart of lube oil to a few gallons of kerosene will lube the kerosene enough to be used as emergency diesel.

Kero is our fuel of choice when out of the USA as propane nay be hard to find , fill, or dirty in many places.

5Gal of kero is enough for a grand cook , with oven for 6 months .

FF

FF wrote:

*the addition of a quart of lube oil to a few gallons of kerosene will lube the kerosene enough to be used as emergency diesel.

5Gal of kero is enough for a grand cook , with oven for 6 months .

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Fair enough for cooking but even then I would*fill a can*with Jet-A before paying outrageous prices for kerosene.*

And I wouldn't (never did - and I have used a lot of it) hesitate to use Jet-A in the fuel tank without adding anything to increase the lubricity. It can be considered a very good alternative and I would drop the word emergency since*that makes it sound like there is a lot of risk in using it and*it just ain't so.

"Fair enough for cooking but even then I would fill a can with Jet-A before paying outrageous prices for kerosene."

Yes, the local FBO is a great place!

Today it has the ONLY gas that will last over a month of storage , since (so far) its Alky free by law.!

FF

RickB, You can/may disagree and state your view point, but dont call people or what they believe/do is stupid.

Since we installed the Webasto, I was buying home heating oil which is pumped on LakeUnion, the last 3 years we been burning the new low/ultra low sulfur diesel which burns clean in the Wesbasto.* Each year I add been adding water absorbtion additives and in the spring Miracle snake oil to burn in the 671. That is what I was told by my Webasto/diesel mechanics. I am concerned that the Westasto burns clean so we do not get complains from my neighbors and/or marina as we are year around live aboards and also concern about our 30 year old fuel tanks.***
*

Each year, I have the Webasto serviced to make sure we do not have trouble in the winter, with very little carbon build up and diesel soot/smell, running 24/7 for 10 mnoths/year.* Also each spring I have my diesel mechanic check the engine for peace of mind, and they all say my engines are the cleanest, and best conditioned engines for thier hours/years they have worked on.* I trust my mechanics and I listen to FF as I have read his posts for 10+ years.* *
*

*


-- Edited by Phil Fill on Sunday 24th of May 2009 09:59:12 AM

-- Edited by Phil Fill on Sunday 24th of May 2009 10:28:58 AM

FF, just so I'm clear; I have a normally aspirated Lugger, completely rebuilt 20 something year old diesel with 3 hours on it. my steel tanks are brand new, have never been filled. Is it ok to have the local home heating oil deliver to my boat 100 gallons each side? Boat is on the hard, almost finished. I have a fuel polishing system installed, never used yet. I agree with Phil Fill...I always listen to your posts.

Steve
FF has passed on. Phil long gone as a contributor. My two cents worth is to forego a delivery truck of home heating oil. You’ve no idea as to what you’re getting not only fuel type but dirt and water potentially too.

Me, with new tanks I’d get a drum of diesel at a gas station and pump it in with a hand pump.

Oh jeez I'm so sorry to hear that, really. Thank you for your reply I will take your advice!

Things may have changed but back in the 60's and early 70's my dad was in the gas and oil delivery business. Home heating oil and diesel fuel were exactly the same and came out of the same tank. At 18 cents a gallon. There were different formulations for summer and winter but he didn't have anything to do with that, that's how it came to him on the big truck.
Today marina diesel may have additives to make it better in boats, or they might just have a decal on the pump saying so. The same truck delivers it to the marina as the farmers and oil heated homes.

I'm so sorry to hear that Fast Fred has passed. His posts over the years were very informed, pragmatic - and often provocative! He was also generous in that he welcomed visitors to his dock at any time; I believe it was well protected as well.
Rest in peace Fred.

As far as I know, it's illegal to use home heating oil in a diesel boat or car. That's why marine fuel is dyed red. I could be wrong so check it out.

Just ask the fuel oil company to deliver "off road diesel". It will almost certainly be the exact same fuel that they deliver for home heating, but depending on where you are, the tax structure may be different. Neither will carry road taxes, and consequently will be dyed red in most of the US.


Also check to see if they have a fill nozzle like those used by gas stations. any deliver trucks do no, and are only set up to fill a cam-lock fill or a twist lock fuel fill like on a home heating tank.

Home heating oil and diesel may come from the same refinery tank, but not necessarily. There are at least two specs that differentiate the two: lubricity and cetane rating, both of which are important for diesel use but are not necessary for home heating oil.

If you are in an area where the refinery produces and delivers the two different products, you may not get the cetane and lubricity you need for your diesel engine in home heating oil.

There probably is no way to know what you are getting, so the safest thing to do is only buy marine diesel for your engine.

David

DavidM said:

Home heating oil and diesel may come from the same refinery tank, but not necessarily. There are at least two specs that differentiate the two: lubricity and cetane rating, both of which are important for diesel use but are not necessary for home heating oil.

If you are in an area where the refinery produces and delivers the two different products, you may not get the cetane and lubricity you need for your diesel engine in home heating oil.

There probably is no way to know what you are getting, so the safest thing to do is only buy marine diesel for your engine.

David

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Lubricity isn’t that important for an engine, is it??? I add a lubricant to my fuel routinely because I think it is indeed important.

hmason said:

As far as I know, it's illegal to use home heating oil in a diesel boat or car. That's why marine fuel is dyed red. I could be wrong so check it out.

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My long-unlamented former father-in-law had a pump and hose off his (Kittery, Maine) home heating tank from which he filled his Mercedes 300D.


Very proud of his criminality.

DavidM said:

Home heating oil and diesel may come from the same refinery tank, but not necessarily. There are at least two specs that differentiate the two: lubricity and cetane rating, both of which are important for diesel use but are not necessary for home heating oil.

If you are in an area where the refinery produces and delivers the two different products, you may not get the cetane and lubricity you need for your diesel engine in home heating oil.

There probably is no way to know what you are getting, so the safest thing to do is only buy marine diesel for your engine.

David

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That’s why I suggest getting “Off road diesel” rather than depending on heating oil meeting the same specs. ORD is what farms and construction companies get for their equipment, which is powered by the same engines as our boats. I get a couple of deliveries a year for my machines at home. As far as I know, there is no specification for “marine diesel”.

On road or off, it's #2 Diesel. Only the color changes as well as the tax.

Dunno about heating oil specs.

I don’t think that there are any different specs for marine diesel, off road diesel or road diesel. They are all the same (except for taxes) and have to meet the specs for diesel.

David

Home delivery to boats was very common where I was in South Jersey. I had it routinely for my Sportfish.

AFAIK for civilian use, in the USA, off the road diesel is dyed red. Probably so inspectors can tell if your vehicles is illegally using untaxed fuel.

Can't say what fuel oil the local supplier was providing for boats but I doubt it was anything that would hurt boat diesels, too many using it. My sportfish 3208s were running great for many years/hours after I sold it.

Other than convenience, the price difference was only spread in the spring when home heating oil wasn't in big demand. By the fall, the price started to creep towards the marina's.

A lot of different views here.
The FACT is that home heating oil must be 35 seconds to use in your boats diesel engine, NOT Parrafin which is 28 seconds. 35 seconds diesel/home heating fuel is perfectly fine for your boats engine, what do you think heavy plant diesels use ?
The only difference in cetane rating is that if you live in a cold part of the world they sell a 'winter' fuel with a higher cetane rating to aid cold starting.
My company operates trucks from Ireland up into Northern Norway and Sweden and both Volvo and Mercedes handbook instructs you to mix the fuel in arctic conditions by adding parrafin up to 30% to aid cold starting and stop the fuel forming wax globules and blocking filters.
A diesel engine is a multi fuel engine and can run of rapeseed, sunflower oil etc.
How do I know ? When I was in the military I was working on R&D multi fuel dieselsat Rolls Royce diesel factory and we shared the info with GM and Cummins.

The key to "special" delivery is insuring the delivery systems prior to the boat are copacetic. I have great faith in large commercial deliveries to fuel docks, major purchasers such as gas stations, dirt moving outfits or sizeable marinas.

I spent many years buying and testing large fuel deliveries from major suppliers such as Irish R notes. There are procedures and protocols that both parties adhere to. So long as the delivery truck to the dry storage yard meets these sorts of checks and balances there should be no issue. But how do you know what was hauled in the small delivery truck or from what fuel depot tank before it gets to you?

This is why I lean towards just get a drum load of road diesel at your local major gas station with an observable in line fuel filter.

Just want it to be noted that diesel at marine stations in SE Alaska is not dyed.

Tator

I may be out of touch, but when I was younger home heating oil was equal to #1 diesel. People with diesel stoves used #1 because it burned cleaner with less soot. Most had a separate tank for #1.
Good fuel conditioners have a cetane booster that make up for what's missing in current diesel. Additives usually include a lubricity booster, biocide, cleaners that reduce sludge, and help a Racor type filter better separate water. I use Archoil 6500 and also get about a 10% mileage boost. I use it every fueling.

sunchaser said:

Steve
FF has passed on. Phil long gone as a contributor. My two cents worth is to forego a delivery truck of home heating oil. You’ve no idea as to what you’re getting not only fuel type but dirt and water potentially too.

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Sadly Phil passed away a few years ago also. I tried to buy his very interesting, ocean-crossing boat but his children decided to keep it and continue enjoying the family legacy.