bayliners.

Did Bayliner ever hire a marine architect or are they still designed by an in-house committee? Was on a smaller Bayliner that had the flybridge supported by window frames. The boat had a warning sign limiting the number of people allowed on the fly-bridge. Not the best engineering IMHO.

ancora said:

Did Bayliner ever hire a marine architect or are they still designed by an in-house committee? Was on a smaller Bayliner that had the flybridge supported by window frames. The boat had a warning sign limiting the number of people allowed on the fly-bridge. Not the best engineering IMHO.

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My Silverton Convertible was the same way...if done correctly strong enough for intended use....

Through the Bayliner Smooth Ride System, complex curved hulls are performance-matched by in-house naval architects to the Mercury engines. Computer-aided design enables an exceptional level of precision and a high-quality fit and finish for every boat.

Great Lakes Boating Features: Bayliner - Where Fun Lives

ancora said:

Did Bayliner ever hire a marine architect or are they still designed by an in-house committee? Was on a smaller Bayliner that had the flybridge supported by window frames. The boat had a warning sign limiting the number of people allowed on the fly-bridge. Not the best engineering IMHO.

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Probably had more marine architects than some builders had employees.

But no one with the stature of Ed Monk Jr., Tom Fexas, Art DeFever, et al.

ancora said:

But no one with the stature of Ed Monk Jr., Tom Fexas, Art DeFever, et al.

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Doesn't mean they weren't just as good....they just didn't strike out on their own.

I just read a short biography of John Gardner NA who designed a yacht for one of the Bayliner Corp CEOs...John Gardner was quoted as saying the Baliner Express cruiser line were darn good "heavy veather" hulls compared to many production boats.

Just to clarify for everyone, this thread is part of our overall sinister plan to merge the bayliner owner's forum with trawler forum. That should get the conspiracy theorists hoping!

Woodsong said:

Just to clarify for everyone, this thread is part of our overall sinister plan to merge the bayliner owner's forum with trawler forum. That should get the conspiracy theorists hoping!

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I would welcome some new input!

I've chartered boats twice. The first was a GB 32, the second a Bayliner 4588. I loved the 4588 and found it quite capable of handling the Strait of Juan de Fuca. We got into a bit of a blow heading back from Victoria to Roche and were in 5'-7' waves. The boat did very well, surprising all of us with how well it handled the waves. It was a wet ride, but we were comfortable in the pilothouse.

As to the comment slamming the Bayliner motoryachts because of the decal that limits the number of people who can be on the flybridge....that has more to do with having too much weight that far above the center of gravity and the possibility of making the boat unstable than it does with actual weight capacity.

My boat has the same type of decal. I'm limited to 1500 lbs when underway, but no limit when anchored or secured to a dock.

I've always admired Bayliner's marketing plan. Several years ago they made a 16' boat in Mexico that had an outboard on it and came with a trailer and could be bought with minimum down payment and a monthly payment for $119 a month. That program probably did more to bring young families into boating than any other manufacturer had ever done.

GFC said:

As to the comment slamming the Bayliner motoryachts because of the decal that limits the number of people who can be on the flybridge....that has more to do with having too much weight that far above the center of gravity and the possibility of making the boat unstable than it does with actual weight capacity.

My boat has the same type of decal. I'm limited to 1500 lbs when underway, but no limit when anchored or secured to a dock.
.

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My 42' Ocean Alex Sport Sedan didn't have such a decal but should have had one! When my daughter graduated from law school, I took everyone out for a whale watching trip. There were 9 people on the fly bridge. I started to make a turn at approximately 10 knots & felt the boat start to lean uncomfortably to the outside of the turn. I quickly reversed my rudder angle and caught it. No one on board realized what almost happened and my knees shook all the way back to the slip. The CG of the boat was clearly compromised.

haha, had to go change your drawers!!! glad you corrected it.

I'll echo what healhustler and Wadosan have said. Bayliner makes great use of space. They have done a very sensible thing in arranging and decorating the interior space in a manner that attracts the Admirals.

All these praises of Bayliners' "great use of space" but where is the photographic evidence? Is it that because they have greater volume than other boats for their length, or what?

colonycove , post #21, thanks I could not agree with you more, to many snobs on the water and looks like quite a few here aswell, I wonder if they are as opinionated down on the dock.

Hmm... I'm not seeing any snobs here. Did I miss something? Who are they expat?

I have to say- the sea ray forum or other sites are not as gracious. As cranky as you all can be sometimes when it comes to anchor choice, flybridge or no flybridge, etc. you all show that there is more to a boat than the name on it. Either that or you all are good at biting your tongue!

My boat's too old for me to be snobbish. But I did sell my Bayliner to buy her.

markpierce said:

All these praises of Bayliners' "great use of space" but where is the photographic evidence? Is it that because they have greater volume than other boats for their length, or what?

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I gave several examples above of "use of space" features found on my 28.5' Bayliner that you won't see on a 30' boat under any other brand. And just about everyone who has owned one cites that as one reason they bought it. Still, if you need pictures you can go on any boat selling web site and compare for yourself.

I didn't even look at the model # on my boat when I first boarded it at the show. I didn't believe the salesman when he told me the size. I had just assumed it was 4-6 feet longer than it was based on the interior layout.

The other thing that high-volume production brings is an accumulation of small engineering enhancements every year. Things you'll never think about when you're boat shopping but are glad they designed in once you get to using it. The year mine was made, they added a ton of stowage space where there had been none by replacing a pedestal seat with a formed-in base. All these little changes add up over time.

Russell Clifton said:

Nearly every time I encounter a boat coming into a anchorage way to fast and throwing a huge swell, it turns out to be a Bayliner.

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Odd, when I'm in an anchorage it's always a Sea Ray. But you're right, it's usually an express cruiser. They're also the ones running at 30 knots in thick fog, with no radar, no lights and no sound signals.

The guys who wake me the worst are the guys with trawlers that are pushing them at or above hull speed and don't slow down in the no wake zones.

Probably because they think they are going too slow to begin with...

A few musings after plodding through this thread:

• It is amazing how Bayliner owners past and present rise to the defense of their vessels even when not under attack.
• Oh, and of course SeaRays are superior to Meridians and Bayliners in all respects ---------. Brunswick tells us so at the boat shows and in the plant tours to justify the extra 10%.
• To put a stop to the Carver fans on Yacht Forum posting such gibberish as "my Carver is as good as a Fleming or a Marlow", Carl set up a separate Carver section. Carver lovers who cross over are banned.
• I much prefer my Suburban to a Tourag or Range Rover since it can haul more boat crap and is on a truck frame. Just don't liken it to a thin hulled (by necessity) Bayliner, better comparison is a Fe hull shrimper.

It's not all that far-fetched to believe that Bayliner may some day be in the trawler, excuse me, RECREATIONAL Trawler market. They've got a hull that does decent trawler economy while giving a good (albeit costly) turn of speed. They just need a bit of restyling to attract the old fuddy-duddies like me. Take the 45 or 4788 hull, add a few trawler shapes, forms, accessories, and voila....Bayliner 4799 RT (RT for recreational trawler, of course).

Bayliner?

Back in 80 or 81 I had a change in vacation plans at the last minute. Two weeks earlier I had taken a long weekend to boat upstream on the Mississippi to Red Wing Mn. (about a 600 mile round trip) Gas was cheap, I was young, dumb about going slow, and had a runabout that could cruise easily at 35 MPH. 600 miles, 20 locks in 4 days was good by me. But two weeks later, faced with a John Deere plant shutdown, and a not going to happen motorcycle trip I needed a plan quick. I called a friend and asked if he would like to trailer the boat to the Fox Lake Chain northwest of Chicago to experience big City boating on a bunch of small lakes. Other than the crowds, it's a cool place if your not into wilderness, solitude, or deep water. Instead it offers more hole in the wall, on water, watering holes than anyplace I've seen.
We left early the next day and had the boat in the water by 9AM. My friends request, was to stop at Fox Lake Harbor, the Chicago Bayliner dealer to look at a boat he thought he wanted. It was a 19' Capri Cuddy with a 120HP Mercruiser. It could be bought for $7500 brand new if my memory serves. The Salesman talked and talked, he said it could do 44 to 45 MPH and on and on. I thought to myself how can that be? My 18' Slickcraft with a 188HP could do 42 on a good day only. Here was a bigger boat with 2/3rds the power? The guy wouldn't shut up but he did say Would you like to take one out for a ride? There was a deal not to be refused. Off we went. He gets in starts the engine and was on plane before we got out of the harbor. My friend was sitting in the port side seat facing forward. I was sitting behind him facing the middle and looking forward over my left shoulder. The salesman says proudly "she really can turn too" "you holding on?" Then he cranks her into a wide open right hand turn. I wasn't holding on. I slid across the seat and crashed into the side of the boat with my back. No harm to me but the boat didn't fare as lucky. The side deck cracked from the inside to the outside. As we flew over the foot and a half chop back to the dock, I tapped my friends shoulder to point out the damage, and have him see the side of hull flexing in and out wildly. When We got back to the dock I said to the guy 'your boat seems to have broke out there', I pointed out the crack and splintered fiberglass. His answer? That no big deal. Needless to say he didn't sell a boat that day, not to my friend anyway.
The Bayliner didn't have the glassed in horizontal board that formed the bottom of the side pocket in Slickcraft. I reasoned that does more for lateral stiffness of the sides of the boat than provide a storage bin. My side decks were 8 inches wide or so, also adding stiffness. The Bayliner decks were 3" or so. While it makes the cockpit absolutely huge, and it takes a lot of weight out that allows it to perform with minimal power, and all this makes it amazingly cheap, I spent the rest of day riding in my 8 year old used boat feeling like I got a better deal.
Having said all this, I realize I was riding in a bottom of the product line boat from 30 years ago. Bayliner has made amazing progress in the 30 years since. I have been around many impressive larger Bayliners since. They have produced some unique and functional stuff that nobody else offers particularly at there price point. Would I ever own one? I really don't know but I would look. And know I might well be very impressed.

Woodsong said:

Just to clarify for everyone, this thread is part of our overall sinister plan to merge the bayliner owner's forum with trawler forum. That should get the conspiracy theorists hoping!

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Tony, we talked about that. Not untill its official!

sunchaser said:

A few musings after plodding through this thread:

• It is amazing how Bayliner owners past and present rise to the defense of their vessels even when not under attack.

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You want to know the coolest thing sunchaser.

Think about all the former Bayliner owners that have praised their boats. These are not guys like Woodsong, Riverdriver or myself that currently own Bayliners, these are people that used to own Bayliners.

That says an awful lot right there. Not one former Bayliner owner came out and said they were anything but well designed comfortable boats.

These aren't guys that go to internet forums bashing what they've never even seen, these are guys that know all of their boats secrets, and still they had nothing bad to say.

Yes, us Bayliner owners can be a defensive bunch, but when former owners still praise the boats that speaks volumes.

healhustler said:

It's not all that far-fetched to believe that Bayliner may some day be in the trawler, excuse me, RECREATIONAL Trawler market. They've got a hull that does decent trawler economy while giving a good (albeit costly) turn of speed. They just need a bit of restyling to attract the old fuddy-duddies like me. Take the 45 or 4788 hull, add a few trawler shapes, forms, accessories, and voila....Bayliner 4799 RT (RT for recreational trawler, of course).

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Nice photoshop work!!!

healhustler said:

It's not all that far-fetched to believe that Bayliner may some day be in the trawler, excuse me, RECREATIONAL Trawler market. They've got a hull that does decent trawler economy while giving a good (albeit costly) turn of speed. They just need a bit of restyling to attract the old fuddy-duddies like me. Take the 45 or 4788 hull, add a few trawler shapes, forms, accessories, and voila....Bayliner 4799 RT (RT for recreational trawler, of course).

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LOVE IT! How funny!! Do that and charge 5x's as much and people will think it's an awesome boat capable of crossing oceans. We can get it manufactured in Asia and called it the "Nordliner."

healhustler said:

They just need a bit of restyling to attract the old fuddy-duddies like me.

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.......

..............Said the Krogen Manatee owner!!!!!

Seriously, I am one who always considers a boat for what it is....much like a car. A car that finds itself with the same image problem is the Porsche Boxster. The Boxster is one of the finest cars built and literally one of the best handling cars on Earth. Yet my friends say they will disown me and my wife says she will divorce me if I get one.

My biggest problem with the Bayliners as has been mentioned before is interior appearance. Color choices...but not just the color of fabrics. The Use of black plastic instead of something lighter or where other manufacturers would use wood....the instrument panel....the pilothouse. Things that cannot be changed. I realize that this has ultimately no bearing on the seaworthiness of the boat. I just can't get past it. It makes the interior dark and not as warm as most boats. I do notice that their newer boats are lighter and warmer on the inside. Anyway, simply an opinion of mine. There is a 4388 Bayliner in my area for sale at $80k...40 grand less than the cheapest one on YW. It is a damn nice boat. It is admittedly an "Ike" boat and needs a bit more work to get it ship shape but it represents a great deal for somebody!

Hunter sailboats suffer the same image problem. There's not a damn thing wrong with them for what 99% of people use their boats for. In fact, who wants a slow ass hard to maneuver double ender just to go piddle around the bay in???? And they are, by far, the champion of marketing to the Admiral.

I challenge all of you "boat snobs" to board a Carver Mariner 350 (I think the latest model is a 360). These are the boats that really do look like a Nike high top shoe....and a Clorox bottle laying on it's side. They are quite possibly the most hideous looking boats on the water....the "poster child" for marine tupperware....BUT....their use of space is AMAZING. And I am not just talking about interior space. It is a multi level boat with only 3 steps on the entire boat!!!! HOW DID THEY DO THAT???!!!! I am not sure I could ever get myself past the looks of it but Carver sold a shitload of these things(and continues to). Which tells me the rookie first time boat buyer with a wad of cash and no eye for "marine aesthetics" sees the same thing I do....a very neat and dynamic boat.....albeit quite unattractive.

Baker said:

My biggest problem with the Bayliners as has been mentioned before is interior appearance. Color choices...but not just the color of fabrics. The Use of black plastic instead of something lighter or where other manufacturers would use wood....the instrument panel....the pilothouse. Things that cannot be changed. I realize that this has ultimately no bearing on the seaworthiness of the boat. I just can't get past it. It makes the interior dark and not as warm as most boats. I do notice that their newer boats are lighter and warmer on the inside.

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Here's photos of my helm and salon. My boat is a 2001 model, and as you indicated it has the lighter colors.

My fridge with the white panel has been replaced with a new unit that has a teak front.

We need to remember when looking at boats, many boats used color choices that were popular when they were made. Remember light green bath tubs?

I agree that many of the color choices of days gone by are not that pleasing to the eye, not just in Bayliners.

Baker said:

The Use of black plastic instead of something lighter or where other manufacturers would use wood....the instrument panel....the pilothouse. Things that cannot be changed. I realize that this has ultimately no bearing on the seaworthiness of the boat. I just can't get past it. It makes the interior dark and not as warm as most boats.

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I run a small business that does just that.

www.aplusmobilegraphics.com

For about a grand I can provide you with CNC machined aluminum panels with laser engraved accents and placarding (uppers and lowers). So much for black plastic...

SomeSailor said:

I run a small business that does just that.

www.aplusmobilegraphics.com

For about a grand I can provide you with CNC machined aluminum panels with laser engraved accents and placarding (uppers and lowers). So much for black plastic...

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Mike, you do great work!!

Just so everybody knows Somesailor did my instrument panels, (all three) closely matching the original burl finish.