Maybe this one?

Westwinds,
You still here?

What do you think of this boat?

Think the year is too old for steel?

1968 Conrad N.V. Kalp Holland Power Boat For

Greetings,
Now THAT'S a nice boat!

Gardner engines! Me likey.

galaxy girl I say this with the best intentions.. You will have plenty of work to do on any large yacht, do yourself a GIANT favor and do not consider a wood or steel boat I fear the extra work required on these boats will quickly overwhelm you of course that is my humble opinion and I could be wrong

Nice boat, I don't care for the draft thou, it draws a bit to much for coastal cruising ....IMO.

Nothing wrong with a well found, well built steel boat. It's really hard to tell from pictures but when I see a clean engine room I'd expect the rest to be well maintained too. If that hull has been well maintained it will outlast you Galaxy

roguewave said:

Nice boat, I don't care for the draft thou, it draws a bit to much for coastal cruising ....IMO.

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Yeah, but, a good transatlantic capable boat should have a fairly hefty draft, I believe, and every boat is a compromise. I'll compromise some coastal access in return for European access

RT Firefly said:

Greetings,
Now THAT'S a nice boat!

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Glad you think so.

motion30 said:

galaxy girl I say this with the best intentions.. You will have plenty of work to do on any large yacht, do yourself a GIANT favor and do not consider a wood or steel boat I fear the extra work required on these boats will quickly overwhelm you of course that is my humble opinion and I could be wrong

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Thanks for your input and concern. Your right. I have completely outruled wood. Problem is, every boat that I am drawn to is steel. Also, I have heard that steel boats are great for international travel.

I think that once I have a good maintenance plan with some professional and some DIY, I should be ok. I am very good about staying on top of things. I am not going to purchase anything that is a project or not in very good condition to start with.

I like the 66' Conrad N.V. Kalp Holland a lot just looking at it. At first I thought there might be too much horsepower with two engines to be economical. However it looks about right to me because you get 127 hp per engine at 1500 RPM. http://www.gardnermarine.com/gardner-marine-engines/standard-engines.aspx and click on 6LXD Fact Sheet. I do like the idea of two engines for redundancy and you do not need as much in spare parts to carry with you if you have an extra engine. These low turning engines are economical and long lived and you can still get parts for the Gardner engines.

Of course you do need a trusted surveyor to have a look at it that goes without saying. The cabins might seem small for a boat this size but from what I have read about kids, as long as they have a space to call their own on a boat, size matters little. I have thought some of the boats you were looking at were large and might be a maintenance problem just by their size, the bigger it is the more work to keep up. This boat I think is as small as you can go and still get the cabins you what

Are you going to look at it?

From the pics, one of the best looking boats I've seen.
Too big for the boating I plan on doing but might be just right for you.

I think you've found a nice boat!

I like the steel construction. Yes, you will forever be painting, but chipping, sanding and painting is not a difficult to learn skill for you and your family.

I like the engine room photos. It looks clean, and the engine looks to be a dry exhaust which is a big plus.

With your need for berthing for you, your mom and 5 kids, along with ocean crossing ability you set a specific standard. This boat is not for everyone but it looks ideally suited to your needs.

Are you buying plane tickets to go look at it yet???

I took a look at the photos trying to come up with problems. It has 2641 gallons of diesel. There are two engines that can use about 5 gallons per hour each. Say it goes 8 knots. That is a range of 2100 miles. This is really a guess on range, but gives some idea. The sewage holding tank is only 132 gallons. Does the dock you plan to stay at have a sewage line? With 7 people I doubt the tank would hold more than a day's sewage. If the water maker quits, if you figure 2 quarts per person per day for emergency use, looks like there would be enough at water at 528 gallons fresh water.

I see no handholds. Those must be added. The stove looks electric and has nothing for holding pots in place in bad weather. There is no generator for power to operate the stove while away from shore. It would take a large 60 Hertz 115 volt to 50 Hertz 230 volts converter hooked to shore power for the stove. Need a different stove. The handles on the cabinets look like there are no buttons to push for a secure latch. With bad weather, everything would be on the floor. The teak side decks look like replacement is needed. I wonder if there is rust underneath. If you look at photo 28 to the right of the steering gear, looks like extensive rust. Boats rust from the inside out so be careful. French Polynesia is a ways to go so I am wondering if there is anyway to get a preliminary assessment on the rust issues.

Greetings,
Ms. GG. Mr. westwinds raises valid concerns to which I will add one other. A steel hull is in need of regular zinc maintenance. More so than wood or FRP. You could be looking at a hefty expense to haul and re-zinc on a regular basis. I don't think this is a diver job. The boat has to be hauled. To my understanding the old zincs have to be ground off and new ones welded on. Just one more thing to add to the equation...

GalaxyGirl said:

What do you think of this boat?

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Four comments:

1) Before you do anything, get the broker to send at least 100 high-res pictures taken within the past month.

2) This boat is being sold for a value that is less than the cost of the most recent refit. Why?

3) This is a European boat, with the attendant conversion/tax/complication issues.

4) As with the Malahide, by the time this is safely moored on the US west coast, tax paid, ready for use in North America, you will have spent an additional $300,000. This is a beautiful boat, but is it a $700K boat?

Scott Welch
Island Eagle

This is a beautiful old ship!! But, before you go much further I would seriously check out whether you would ever be able to insure it, at any price, even with a full-time qualified captain. You would need to insure for the journey to US East Coast (8,000 miles??), then on an ongoing basis. You will need additional fuel capacity to make it from Polynesia to the nearest refueling in Galapagos (approx 3500 nm) I do not agree with the draft comment - 6ft (2m) is quite normal for sailboats or full displacement trawlers. You will not be able to cruise the Florida Keys!!

Westwind, I think I see a Kohler gen in one of the engine room pictures and it does list one in the specs.
I like this one too and with the age and knowing a little about steel boats of this age, I owned a 1972 44' Offshore by TD Vinnette, a good survey is called for. Be sure to look in some of the out of way places like under and behind fuel tanks etc. The paint systems we have now days is far superior to what was available back then. But the good news is with steel is it's repairable anywhere in the world and not near as expensive as FG.
I also like the round stern and the heighth of the superstructure. The deep draft is typical of what you need for open ocean work, ask a commercial fish trawler what there draft is. Anyway I like it and go in with your eyes open.Larry

That vessel is a small ship, and maintenance, berthing, and fuel costs would be high. But if brought up to scratch, would certainly do what you appear to want to do.

Chrisjs said:

This is a beautiful old ship!! But, before you go much further I would seriously check out whether you would ever be able to insure it, at any price, even with a full-time qualified captain. You would need to insure for the journey to US East Coast (8,000 miles??), then on an ongoing basis.

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Technically there is no need to insure a vessel for use on the high seas, or even coastal waters. It's typically the marinas that require insurance.

Of course, with that said, if you self-insure and you have something like a small grounding, with a little leakage of a few thousand gallons of diesel and some lube oil, maybe somewhere like Puget Sound or the Chesapeake... you can be looking at a cleanup bill in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. And don't just dismiss this as an impossibility, it can and does happen. And with all levels of government increasingly short of cash, they are going to be keen to recover expenses.

As I have pointed out before, when I attempted to get insurance on Island Eagle I was required to take a two day check-out voyage with a Transport Canada licensed captain, who then wrote a fairly detailed letter to my insurance company about my ability to captain such a vessel. And note that I have been boating for 30 years.

Once again, there are no shortcuts to owning a vessel of this size and complexity.

Scott Welch
Island Eagle

Overall I like Tigress. I think she is about as good of a fit for GG's needs as she is going to find.

I plugged her numbers into my spreadsheet. Yachtworld claims she is 87,500 kg full load but 1968 Conrad N.V. Kalp Holland - Boats.com claims she is 87,500 kg dry weight. Using 87,500 kg as the dry weight she will never achieve the 10 knots max speed that they claim. Using the 87,500 kg as full load and subtracting 35% of the fuel weight gives an average voyaging weight of 186,245 lbs (note: performance calculations are usually done at half load or the weight at the mid point of the passage. Actual fuel consumption will be worse at the start and better at the end, but using half load is very close to the average.) The listing states she is 20.0 m length over all (LOA) but provides no length at water line (LWL) so i guessed 60 feet. Using the dry weight (i.e. no fuel or water) and the 150 HP per engine at 1650 rpm rating I get a maximum speed of 9.97 knots which is very close to the claimed 10 knot maximum (so I think my calculations are pretty good if you can believe their data).

Next, I used the Gardner fuel consumption rate of 0.33 lbs/HP/hr, which equates to 0.048 gal/HP/hr (most engines consume about 0.055 gal/HP/hr but Gardner engines are notoriously fuel efficient). I also assumed 0.58 gal/hr for the generator. Using these values, I calculate a fuel burn rate at 8 knots of 8 gal/hr and a range with 30% reserve of 1,858 NM. Tigress should achieve a range of 2,400 NM with 30% fuel reserve if she slows to 6.9 knots which requires 100 HP and consumes 5.32 gal/hr. This 2400 NM passage will require 323.7 hr or 13.5 days, so you need space to store 3 to 4 weeks of supplies.

My main concern is that the listing does not mention stabilizers or thrusters, both of which would be on my must have list. I had complete a trip and dock single handed in an emergency once and I vowed I'd by boat would be configured for single hand operation. I think I could single hand Tigress if she had hydraulic bow and stern thrusters.

Trouble is, I believe the nearest refueling point to Polynesia is in the Galapagos and that leg is about 3,500nm. So, based on the theoretical consumption calculations, the vessel would need fuel bladders totaling 50% (1350 US gallons) more than its present tankage, increasing loaded weight by another 10,000lb, and the voyage would take 3 weeks at 7kts. BTW, I know that Venezuela has cheap fuel, but I hate to think what it might cost to fill up in the Galapagos??? Also, as another aside, A Selene 53 just set off on the reverse voyage from the Galapagos to Polynesia.

Sewage

westwinds said:

... The sewage holding tank is only 132 gallons. Does the dock you plan to stay at have a sewage line? With 7 people I doubt the tank would hold more than a day's sewage...

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I made a wrong assumption about how long a holding tank is good for. Here is a map that shows No Discharge Zones on part of the northern seaboard. "No Discharge Areas" In New England Waters | US EPA This means you must use a holding tank, but only for toilet waste. Shower, sink, washing machine, dishwasher can be discharged. You cannot use a Marine Sanitation Device (MSD) to treat and discharge toilet waste in a No Discharge Zone. Marine Sanitation Devices | Vessel Water Discharge | US EPA Most marine toilets use 2 to 3 quarts. The average person is likely to use the toilet 8 times per day so that's about 4.5 gallons per person per day so a holding tank of 132 gallons is good for 4 days with 7 people. Marine vacuum-flush toilets use about 1.5 pints per flush or about 3 times less so the tank would be good for 12 days.

Chrisjs said:

This is a beautiful old ship!! But, before you go much further I would seriously check out whether you would ever be able to insure it, at any price, even with a full-time qualified captain. You would need to insure for the journey to US East Coast (8,000 miles??), then on an ongoing basis. You will need additional fuel capacity to make it from Polynesia to the nearest refueling in Galapagos (approx 3500 nm) I do not agree with the draft comment - 6ft (2m) is quite normal for sailboats or full displacement trawlers. You will not be able to cruise the Florida Keys!!

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IslandEagle said:

Technically there is no need to insure a vessel for use on the high seas, or even coastal waters. It's typically the marinas that require insurance.

Of course, with that said, if you self-insure and you have something like a small grounding, with a little leakage of a few thousand gallons of diesel and some lube oil, maybe somewhere like Puget Sound or the Chesapeake... you can be looking at a cleanup bill in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. And don't just dismiss this as an impossibility, it can and does happen. And with all levels of government increasingly short of cash, they are going to be keen to recover expenses.

As I have pointed out before, when I attempted to get insurance on Island Eagle I was required to take a two day check-out voyage with a Transport Canada licensed captain, who then wrote a fairly detailed letter to my insurance company about my ability to captain such a vessel. And note that I have been boating for 30 years.

Once again, there are no shortcuts to owning a vessel of this size and complexity.

Scott Welch
Island Eagle

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Well put, gentlemen. Though I disgree with Chris with regards to range- a friend of mine with a 48' Selene made the trek from Mazatlan to French Polynesia without refueling (2850 miles)...

The steel vessel is insurable. However, insuring companies will have fairly stringent requirements to offer coverage. Note I didn't say "may"- I said "will". Unless you have significant passagemaking experience and ownership experience, you will need a skipper (license carrying skipper with relevant experience) for this boat, for both the transit and for operations around your homeport. As you gain experience under the tutelage of the skipper, your insurance carrier will consider removing the requirement for a licensed skipper.

This will apply whether you find a boat overseas or domestically. Island Eagle is correct in that there is no requirement for insurance, unless you finance the vessel or your marina/moorage requires coverage. Not having coverage would, in my opinion, be highly irresponsible.

When we are cruising in no-discharge zones, we do not flush the yellow stuff each time. By letting it mellow a few times it saves the 3-4 qts flush from the electric head each time you go. We also have a manual head, in addition to the electric head, which allows a much smaller flush to save holding tank volume.

I double checked the distance and according to Selene 53, Mystic Moon's blog, they figure the crossing from Galapagos to the Marquesas is about 3,000 nm and will take less than the calculated 21 days at 6.0 kts because they hope to gain speed with a favorable current and a small sail to average 6.5 kts SOG. In the reverse direction, I would assume the current and winds would work to slow down the vessel. They are carrying 3 fuel bladders totaling another 435 gallons for a grand total of 1,635 gallons on-board. Based off of my own fuel consumption experience with a similar vessel, I would guesstimate their fuel consumption at about 2.5 gph for a single engine vessel weighing about 80,000lb at 6kt, giving them a range of 3,900nm at 6kt, or 3,000nm with 23% spare. This not theoretical. The owners of Mystic Moon are very experienced cruisers with over 20K passage miles.

Raiatea-yacht.com - Yacht Broker in French Polynesia - Raiatea, Tahiti

Marine Surveyor in Raiatea, French Polynesia: Christophe Citeau, Tel : 79 63 81

Note that he is recommended by a yacht broker so be careful.

Here is another http://www.yachtworld.com/byp/categories/Surveyors/YachtandSmallCraft_Int_FrenchPolynesia.html.en

Chrisjs said:

I double checked the distance and according to Selene 53, Mystic Moon's blog, they figure the crossing from Galapagos to the Marquesas is about 3,000 nm and will take less than the calculated 21 days at 6.0 kts because they hope to gain speed with a favorable current and a small sail to average 6.5 kts SOG. In the reverse direction, I would assume the current and winds would work to slow down the vessel. They are carrying 3 fuel bladders totaling another 435 gallons for a grand total of 1,635 gallons on-board. Based off of my own fuel consumption experience with a similar vessel, I would guesstimate their fuel consumption at about 2.5 gph for a single engine vessel weighing about 80,000lb at 6kt, giving them a range of 3,900nm at 6kt, or 3,000nm with 23% spare. This not theoretical. The owners of Mystic Moon are very experienced cruisers with over 20K passage miles.

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Not doubting your math, Chris, but here is the info from the log of the MV Further (48' Selene, Mazatlan to Marquesas, French Polynesia)- no bladder tanks for the trip:

04/05/2010 Furthur in the Marquesas
The first crossing of a major ocean by a Selene is complete!!
After 17 days and 7 hours, 416 engine hours and 2719 miles we dropped the hook in Altuana on Hiva Oa in the Marquesas Islands early on the afternoon of 4/3. It was a long wonderful largely uneventful crossing. We only saw two other vessels, one large one small after we left the coastal traffic of Mexico. We did not have winds over 20 knots and had mostly large following seas. The boat performed flawlessly, the engine purred unchanged for the entire trip at 920 rpm. I landed just over 1/3 tanks so my fuel usage was as anticipated, about 900 usg.
There are 9 boats in the anchorage and we are the only Yanks. We have already made new friends and just enjoyed a magnificent meal with the crews from two boats. We are in the land of French cooking!
The Marquesas are more beautiful than I imagined, a total treasure. I have looked forward to this day for many years and it was all I had hoped for, I am full of gratitude.

(Blog) Passage to Marquesas Islands: 4/5/10 Log of...

about the boat - 07/17/2009
Furthur is a 2005 Selene 48 Ocean Trawler. She is a full displacement heavy weather trawler with 1100 usg fuel. The design and construction of the Selene make it a perfect long range vessel. At 6.5 knots i have a 3250 mile range with a 10% reserve.

She is powered by a Cummins QSL 9ltr 330 hp diesel engine. I chose this engine for it's heavy displacement and slow rpm's, max 1800 rpm, 8 knot cruise, 4 gph, 1150 rpm, and passagemaking speed, 6.5 knots, 950 rpm 2 gph. She holds 1100 usg fuel and 300 water. I have Wesmar fin stabilizers and a Wesmar APU get home system.

Pau Hana: We have a 47ft Selene with 280 Cummins. We typically burn about 2.5gph at 7.5kt and 1650rpm (max 2600rpm). It would appear that Further's QSL version is a bit more efficient than our 5.9BTA. However, I find it hard to believe that the old Gardner twins are so efficient. Even figuring the shorter distance at about 2,800nm, the Tigress would still need to carry an extra 600 gallons or so of fuel in bladders.

Good point- Chris. Looking up the burn rates for the Gardner 6XL, I found that 7-8 LPH (1.8-2.2 GPH is the average burn rate (7-8 knot speed).

You really think that 10,000 liters (2641 gallons) would be inadequate for a trip from FP to the US mainland (2800 miles)? At 1 NMPG, she would fall only a couple of hundred miles short of goal. I think that she would get better MPG than than that, based on a speed of advance of about 5-6 knots.

Either way, I'd love to crew on that trip!

My spreadsheet indicated that if Tigress slows to 6.2 knots she will consume 4 gal/hr providing a range of 2,856 NM with 30% reserve. This passage would require 360 hours or 15 days.