Generator Sizing and Boat E Loads?

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SeaHorse II said:
+3 I'm still trying to understand where this guy is coming from! Maybe this will help...........
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I had this identical problem with a senior member recently accusing mods for censoring his picture. It was loading fine for most everyone else. Images don't always load due to things like page load speeds or slow response from remote hosts etc.

No idea how we can convince people we mods don't block them. Especially seeing as this mod has, as of today, now have 2 sons serving in the USAF. I suppose that makes me not patriotic???
 
BigJim said:
I thank you all for your insiteful responses. Based on the pushback from the mods here regarding my sons ship and my posting of a a USN Warship I am unsure if I will continue to research here. I am sorry to upset the mods sensativvities. The ship is actually in the fleet of the USN. Jeeezzzz.

How sad.
Click to expand...

Your picture is there. Post or don't post, we'll all survive.
 
Craig--- Good point. I have on rare occasions in the past had a thumbnail or photo in a post not load, or only partially load. I have always assumed this was due to some connection anomaly on the part of my computer or ISP. It always seemed to "fix itself" eventually. Perhaps that's the case here.....
 
Marin I've been led to understand there are many variables involved with image loads. Problem is that although I'm a moderator, I'm much more of a gear head than computer programmer. While the techie folks can explain it to me I'm not fluent enough in tech jargon to explain it well to others. At work there are dozens of folks in charge of making sure the box on my desk works. I wish one of them owned a heavy cruiser on days like this.

Let me be completely clear. Trawler Forum moderators do not censor photographs. Obvious exception would be pornographic ones but as far as I've experienced that's never been an issue here.
 
BigJim said:
I thank you all for your insiteful responses. Based on the pushback from the mods here regarding my sons ship and my posting of a a USN Warship I am unsure if I will continue to research here. I am sorry to upset the mods sensativvities. The ship is actually in the fleet of the USN. Jeeezzzz.

How sad.
Click to expand...

Check your settings- the pic of good ol' CVN-74 (where my son is also proudly serving) is posted and displaying perfectly.
 
If living with the constant noise of a noisemaker is you goal , a pair of sets is the way to go.

If you like the sound of silence , using a propane range and a propane fridge is the answer.

A real marine fridge in 12 or 24V is far better than a Home Cheapo with an inverter , but will still eat about 100A of DC ,so 200A batt is required for each day of quiet.

A 4 or 6KW with a following inverter .would do for most operation.

Excepe as noted Air cond 24/7 is a real power hog.

If you only air cond in modest temps ., where the unit actually cycles the use of a load shedding setup will work fine.

The AC shuts down , allowing the reefer (if 120V) to operate , otherwise the HW heater can come on.

By creating a daisy chain a modest unit can do ALL your electric requirements.

No short life problems from underrloading either!
 
Awesome

That sounds like the way to go.
I think I may try for Diesel heat, radiant or forced, not sure.
And Diesel to cook with.
PNW as well so no AC.
And maybe a small wind generator.


IslandEagle said:
First, I think that there are two reasons gensets are so large. First, because it's much, much easier to make the genset larger than it is for the manufacturer to try and educate the average user how to manage the load. Second, because gensets are usually speced by electrical engineers, who just add up the max load, apply a 120% safety margin, and use that as the spec.

Can you get away with less? You bet. I grew up in an isolated research camp, where we had two 20Kw gensets (specified by by an electrical engineer) and a 4Kw (which was supposed to be temporary). In practice, we ran the 4Kw 3000 hours a year and the 20Kw about 250 hours a year. Yes, you have to watch the load, but that was pretty easy to learn.

One incredibly simple rule is to not use electricity to create heat. Burn propane or diesel. That will take care of a great deal of the load right there.

On my boat (a 60 footer) I use diesel heat and propane for cooking. All lights are 24 volt (although in hindsight I'd use 12). I do use an electric hot water heater, mostly for convenience. I have no AC (I'm in the PNW).

I have a 6Kw genset (50A at 110v), a 4Kw inverter, and a single 30A, 110V shorepower cable (3.3Kw). Through careful load arrangements and a smart inverter, I find I have no problems at all with load. It helps that my inverter is quite smart, it will both cut back the charger and assist when the load becomes too high.

The only situation that causes problems is when I connect to shore power and both the battery charger and hot water heater call for power. However, I rigged up a selector switch that lets me run the hot water heater through the inverter, which is smart enough to dial back the charger when the hot water heater calls.

There is only one real limitation in my system, and that is that I have to be satisfied with a 110V Splendide washer/dryer. I definitely do miss a nice big 6Kw 220V electric dryer (and FYI, this is the main reason we ran our 20Kw when I was growing up, too). I've considered installing a propane dryer, maybe I will if I ever move aboard in the PNW.

YMMV, but it works for me. I have no idea at all why you would need 20Kw.

Scott Welch
Island Eagle
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Not certain what you mean?

I have zero attitude as you write. I posted some questions and included a picture of what I thought was an anecdote on "unlimited power." As the John C. Stennis has.

The photo did not appear until I asked for it to be displayed, a second time. I hung around waiting for it to be "approved."

So if that is "attitude" so be it.
Do any of you have a sense of humor?

I saw no rules for posting patriotic photos so I did just that.

Political correctness will be one of the reasons for the downfall of our country.

BJ


CPseudonym said:
Your picture is there. 2 members posted they saw it.

Drop the attitude.
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BigJim said:
Political correctness will be one of the reasons for the downfall of our country.

BJ
Click to expand...

Two facts for your consideration:

First, on a system like this with users all over the world, "our" country can vary.

Second (and here I'm speaking as somebody who has been building software and web servers for over 30 years), the way that web browsers handle pictures is actually fairly complex and arcane. To make a very long story short, pictures are loaded in a completely separate operation from loading the text of the page. In fact, in many cases the pictures are loaded from completely different servers. Hence, it's completely possible for pictures to fail to load even when the rest of the page loads OK. Also, individual browsers/browser versions/OSs/firewalls/antivirus apps/cache settings/etc. may be configured in ways that cause various page elements and pitures to not load correctly (trust me, this is the bane of software developers).

But it gets even more complex than that. Many people who upload pictures use VERY LARGE pictures, which take a long time to load. I notice that the image in question is fairly large (153K) and coming from a relatively low-powered server. In my case, even on a hot machine with a very large (40Mb) pipe I see a substantial delay when that picture loads. This is exacerbated because the thumbnailing (making a small image from a large one) appears to be pretty inefficient.

Perhaps sticking to the facts and not jumping to conclusions is a way that all of "our" countries can stay out of the shallows.

Scott Welch
Island Eagle
 
How did this thread turn from gensets ot picture uploads? Shouldn't that be a seperate thgread in a different place?
 
A bit like the patriotic stuff, common mate, we are a world wide membership.
Take the camo gear off and chill out, cruisin,learnin and sharin experiences is our bag.
Cheers
Benn
MV Tidahapaah
Mooloolaba
Qld
Australia.
 
BigJim said:
I do not yet own a boat but am looking at 50 foot Trawlers

No flaming please, serious questions.

Thanks,
Click to expand...

Normally I don't respond the these things but seems these two lines explains everything.:blush:
 
"And Diesel to cook with."

I LOVE the Dickinson range , but most folks find it a PIA to keep lighting during the summer as it takes a while to warm up.

Many folks will compromise with a 2 burner propane unit on top for the summer.

Our solution was to simply install a second gymboled 4 burner propane range and oven.

The out of use range gets a cover board so is always useful as needed counter space.

A swinging stove is rare on motor boats but comes in handy when underway when being waked.

Esp since the range is outboard against the hull ( UGH!!!) where a departing pot has a 50/50 chance of scalding the cook!!
 
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Thank you ladies and gentleman for yout patience and understanding. Thank you for your spot on responses to my OP. I apologise for my impatience regarding posting of my sons ship.

If the members want to see more of the "big boat" let me know and I will post them.

I have been aboard for a 5 day cruise previously and am going on another in April.

I ask A LOT of questions, so expect them here and I welcome them regarding the USS John C. Stennis, CVN 74.

FYI the Stennis has two Diesel electric generators that each produce 2000 KW at 4160.
The exhaust stacks route through my sons work space. Besides my sons gun being loud, the EG's are LOUD.

I miss my son to the point of tears, so that anyone who doubts his or another Sailors service spools me up. Sorry.

Gotta go.

BigJim
 
FF said:
"And Diesel to cook with."

I LOVE the Dickinson range , but most folks find it a PIA to keep lighting during the summer as it takes a while to warm up.

Many folks will compromise with a 2 burner propane unit on top for the summer.

Our solution was to simply install a second gymboled 4 burner propane range and oven.

The out of use range gets a cover board so is always useful as needed counter space.

A swinging stove is rare on motor boats but comes in handy when underway when being waked.

Esp since the range is outboard against the hull ( UGH!!!) where a departing pot has a 50/50 chance of scalding the cook!!
Click to expand...
When using Propane what is the moisture like in a cold enviorment like the PNW?
 
BigJim said:
FYI the Stennis has two Diesel electric generators that each produce 2000 KW at 4160
Click to expand...

She actually has four SSDG (Ship's Service Diesel Generators) that build a total of 8,000KW. They'll keep up with all casualty power and get the reactors back online. No such thing as unlimited power though... even for an aircraft carrier. :)
 
When using Propane what is the moisture like in a cold enviorment like the PNW?

The propane fridge is outside on the aft deck, so cold outside simply means less propane burn.

Cooking on a propane range , even with 3 or 4 burners working adds little moisture , after all if its cold in 40s F we have the diesel range cranked and it is of course vented topside..

On something like a south run on the ICW , after breakfast the iron topsail is cranked and the boat is warmed like a car with coolant and radiators w fans (box heaters) .

A tiny amount of ventilation will remove stove gas output , most boats are not tight enough to notice.Assuming its not 22 ft LOA.

A live aboard wit any style fuel stove propane , kerosene or alcohol will always have moisture problems with windows fogging. Glass is no insulation.

The simple solution is to insulate the window with plastic film that cam be shrunk tight with a hair dryer& double stick tape. Inside or outside , do both if below 0-F is common.

Home cheapo at the start of winter has it by the roll.
 
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Jim, don't let being in the PNW keep you from considering a boat that has heat and A/C. We live in the desert part of the PNW and use the A/C a lot in the summer and, since we boat all year we use the heat a fair amount. There are some days in the San Juans when it's nice to have the A/C and lots of days when the heat feels pretty nice.

Our boat has a 15KW genset to supply the all-electric galley, the heat and A/C units and other power using equipment. There have been a few times when we've been running the four heat/A/C units, the stove, TV and other electronics. It's nice to be able to do that without having to worry about turning some things off so we can use others.
 
Hi we might have to switch to electric stove. Was wondering if you think a house battery or genset would need to be used. Don't have an inverter yet, on the list. Wouldn't be running W/D and unnecessary stuff at the same time and not cooking a turkey. This propane issue is almost a no win situation.

Diesel Stove ??
 
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Chris and Roger said:
Hi we might have to switch to electric stove. Was wondering if you think a house battery or genset would need to be used................
Click to expand...

Trying to operate an electric range from a battery and inverter would be a losing proposition. You would need an industrial sized inverter and enough batteries to where weight is a consideration. And you would have to run the boat for days to recharge the batteries.

I cook with a propane stove and it's as good or better than my natural gas stove at home. An ABYC compliant stove and propane system is not inexpensive, but it's a great solution for cooking away from shore power.

Someone else will have to tell you about diesel stoves, I am not familiar with them.
 
We cook with propane (in the PNW) and it's never been a problem.
 
For mere cooking it takes us at least 2 sometimes 3 months to go thru a 20# bottle of Propane. 4 Burners oven, broiler.The bride loves to bake pies.

Since there is less than 5 gal of fuel in a 20# tank , the division of 5 gal by 60 to 90 days will show not much water is put into the air.

Even tho 1.2 gal of water is created by burning gal of propane.

Simple cooking with propane is a non problem.
 
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