AC residential freezer on board?

Any body tried running a small residential chest type freezer on board? Our new boat has a perfect spot under the companionway stairs and we need more freezer space for long cruises.

I've been looking at portable fridge/freezer units from waeco and engel, but they are pricey for the size. Best thing about them is the ability to be ac/dc. I don't think they are really marinized.

Do you think I could run about a 5 cu ft chest freezer off of a small inverter?

Thx.
Doug

Running any residential applicance is a non issue with an inverter.

The challenge is that many people do not want to opt for a good quality wired in inverter. They are not cheap.

I'm from the school that has always had a large wired in inverter/charger on the boat. Even on boats that did not have a generator.

Dougcole said:

Do you think I could run about a 5 cu ft chest freezer off of a small inverter?

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"small inverter" ? You would have to find the freezer's maximum current draw and then select an inverter that is capable od supplying that current on a continuous basis.

You would have to use large enough conductors between the batteries and inverter to prevent a large voltage drop. And install appropriate overcurrent protection.

You would have to have enough battery capacity to power the inverter under load for several hours, perhaps several days, depending on your useage.

An inverter is at best 85% efficient so there's a power loss there to accounf for.

A residential freezer is typically not as well insulated as a marine freezer because there is a readily, cheep source of power available 24/7.

Could you do it? Sure you could. Should you do it? I wouldn't but some people would try it.

ksanders said:

Running any residential applicance is a non issue with an inverter..............

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Not true. Some appliances, most notably microwave ovens, will not work or work well powered by a "modified sine wave" inverter. A true sine wave inverter is required at three times the cost.

That's my thought as well, I can save probably $400 on the freezer, but may spend that to change the setup of batteries, inverter etc. The batts are pretty far from the space where it would sit, so that is a lot of cable. Unless I set it up with a dedicated battery and put it right next to the freezer, like a bow thruster is sometimes set up. easy enough to do a dedicated ac charger, but how would it charge from the alternators?

Or, I guess I could put the inverter next to the batts and run an extension cord to the freezer.

Just a thought. May not be worth it.

rwidman said:

Not true. Some appliances, most notably microwave ovens, will not work or work well powered by a "modified sine wave" inverter. A true sine wave inverter is required at three times the cost.

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My apologies, I had no clue people actually still use modified sine wave inverters.

I have only used full sine wave wired in inverters

ksanders said:

My apologies, I had no clue people actually still use modified sine wave inverters.

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Just flip through the pages of any marine or RV catalog. Most are modified sine wave.

Dougcole said:

........ Or, I guess I could put the inverter next to the batts and run an extension cord to the freezer.

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That would be the way to do it. Or run a circuit from the inverter to an outlet near the freezer.

The higher the voltage, the less loss in the cables.

...yeahp, Inverter is the way to connect AC equipment on a boat runing with batteries.
By the way, here in Brazil we only have Xantrex. I am almost buying 2 x 3000 watts Xantrex XPower. One on and another as back-up.
Is that a good choice? What is the downside?

Thks

Our friends own a DeFever 54 and have placed a household AC chest freezer on their covered back deck. His rationale is that for about $200 he gets more cubic feet of freezer space and should see around a two to three year lifespan. They don't liveaboard, so it will not be running continuously, and they have a very stout 5000W Outback inverter (along with somewhere around a bazillion amp hours of battery!).

Portuguese said:

...yeahp, Inverter is the way to connect AC equipment on a boat runing with batteries.
By the way, here in Brazil we only have Xantrex. I am almost buying 2 x 3000 watts Xantrex XPower. One on and another as back-up.
Is that a good choice? What is the downside?

Thks

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When we purchased our boat she had an older Xantrex inverter. We needed a pure sine wave model, so I researched and spoke with some independent dealers and electronics guys that simply said about Xantrex "do not buy that Chinese crap". They stated inferior parts, poor QC, and poor engineering. This all, I believe, since the manufacturing was moved to China years ago.

They all recommended Outback or Magnum as superior in every way, not the least of which was customer service should you need it. We went with a Magnum 2000W inverter/100a smart charger and are very happy with it. Could you get one online from the US or a nearby country?

I run a full size fridge/freezer for days on 2 8d batteries no issues. Some ac/dc motors draw way more power then straight ac motor just something to watch for.

put the inverter near the batts...whether you use a power cord or wire an outlet near the freezer is up to you.

Modified sine wave inverters are so good now they run just about anything including my microwave. If it burns up the microwave...I can buy 20 or more till I get to the price of a whole boat sine wave inverter...

If the only purpose for the inverter is to power the freezer, then your suspicion that it is a zero sum game at best $$-wise is probably correct, vs getting an AC/DC freezer from someone like Waeco. My guess is you will find other uses. Which of course may mean you will want to buy bigger batteries. And so it goes.

Portuguese: I will double ditto Moonfish' comments on inverter types and brands. I have had a complete Magnum system for over five years of heavy use now, great company to do business with. Contact them, or Victron or Mastervolt, they make units for all global markets. But we prefer you buy Magnum so all the dollars come to the good old USA! Avoid Xantrex if at all possible.

We run everything off our Magnum 3100W modified sine wave inverter accept AC. The air is the only thing, including the microwave that does not like the MSW. We went MSW because it had a much larger charger then the PSW. Magnums are great units. As to the freezer I would opt for the "home" unit every time. The extra cost of the "marine" units can not be supported by a longevity argument. After all the boat is your "home" for many.

Oh I forgot. What ever you buy fill it up and it will hardly need to run after you get the temps down. Also remember that cold air drops so if you insulate (you should) then be sure to insulate the bottom.

Moonfish said:

When we purchased our boat she had an older Xantrex inverter. We needed a pure sine wave model, so I researched and spoke with some independent dealers and electronics guys that simply said about Xantrex "do not buy that Chinese crap". They stated inferior parts, poor QC, and poor engineering. This all, I believe, since the manufacturing was moved to China years ago.

They all recommended Outback or Magnum as superior in every way, not the least of which was customer service should you need it. We went with a Magnum 2000W inverter/100a smart charger and are very happy with it. Could you get one online from the US or a nearby country?

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I've only had Xantrex inverters on my boats for a very long time. I've never had one fail.

Xantrex makes several price point inverters. The units I've had were always at the upper limit of their product line at the time of purchase.

I've heard great things about Magnum and Outback, but I don't think they make a low budget inverter like Xantrex does, so comparisons may not be apples to apples.

As has been my experience running a 'home use deep freeze' I'd say go for it. I run a 2.8 cu. ft chest freezer on board powered by a cheap modified sine wave inverter with great success. As to the modified sine vs. true sine wave conundrum, there are a few things that a modified sine is not ideal for, but not many. True 120v AC is 120 volts RMS, or 'root mean squared' if you measured the peak to peak voltage on an oscilloscope you would see about 160V or so. The modified sine wave would measure 120V, since the peaks of what should be a sine wave are clipped. Back in the early 90's I mentioned to a electrical engineer friend that I was concerned that my new inverter on the boat was defective. my Fluke meter measured my inverter output at about 95 volts. He asked my what model Fluke do you have? I answered a 23. He said, well that's not a true RMS meter. here borrow mine, a 73 (true RMS) and report back tomorrow. I did and it measured 118v. So what AC equipment cares it is being fed a stepped voltage instead of real AC? Things that need the peak voltage such as AC to DC battery chargers, the microwave, possibly some electronics. The microwave will run but cook times may be increased. Same for the cell phone charger, cordless drill charger, and the TV may not have a perfect picture. But my experience is they will work. Things that use transformers are effected. Remember that the starting current for the freezer and AC motors in general may be double or more the constant current draw. So oversize the inverter and look for a large surge capability. When I'm cruising and in need of freezer capacity, the engines are running for a large percentage of time, I really don't care how much energy I draw from the batteries, as the engine alternators put out more than I can draw off. If I was concerned, I'm not, I could turn off the freezer when the engines are not running and it would stay frozen just fine.

ksanders said:

I've only had Xantrex inverters on my boats for a very long time. I've never had one fail.

Xantrex makes several price point inverters. The units I've had were always at the upper limit of their product line at the time of purchase.

I've heard great things about Magnum and Outback, but I don't think they make a low budget inverter like Xantrex does, so comparisons may not be apples to apples.

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The old Xantrex were fine it's the new ones that are garbage. Our MSW 3100w/160amp Magnum was about $1600, that seems pretty cheep to me. We run computers, LCD TVs, microwave, tools, compressor, battery chargers, phone chargers, LCD TV, CFL bulbs, hot water heater, space heaters, blow dryers, heat guns, XBOX, DVD players, refridgerator and every kitchen appliance known to man all with no problems.

On a sort of related note, how would a "home" refrigerator or freezer fare on a boat underway? I haven't bought one in a while, but they all used to come with dire warnings to level them perfectly, and not to start them until they've remained level for hours.

CaptTom said:

On a sort of related note, how would a "home" refrigerator or freezer fare on a boat underway? I haven't bought one in a while, but they all used to come with dire warnings to level them perfectly, and not to start them until they've remained level for hours.

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They do fine....at least on a powerboat..not sure about the big heel of a sailboat.

I don't recall which ones...but some boats new come with home appliances and certainly most commercial boats (they get retrofitted or even original with them.)

CaptTom said:

On a sort of related note, how would a "home" refrigerator or freezer fare on a boat underway? I haven't bought one in a while, but they all used to come with dire warnings to level them perfectly, and not to start them until they've remained level for hours.

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They run just fine. I've had a dormitory sized Haier refrigerator on board for over 10 years. Ventilation is important. Also need a way to keep the door locked when underway!

psneeld said:

They do fine....at least on a powerboat..not sure about the big heel of a sailboat.

I don't recall which ones...but some boats new come with home appliances and certainly most commercial boats (they get retrofitted or even original with them.)

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Great Harbor is one that comes with home appliances.

Mr. Fickett is here sometime. He might chime in.

CaptTom said:

On a sort of related note, how would a "home" refrigerator or freezer fare on a boat underway? I haven't bought one in a while, but they all used to come with dire warnings to level them perfectly, and not to start them until they've remained level for hours.

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Most all of the big high end trawlers tend to use Sub Zero home units and they do ok, but use a lot of juice to run. Here in the Pac NW we see a lot of boats that go North for the summers use home freezers and have them on the back deck.. they are so cheap that when it turns into a rust bucket in three years it goes to the dump. Heed the advise to keep it full.. air is a hard thing to keep cool.
HOLLYWOOD

Daddyo said:

The old Xantrex were fine it's the new ones that are garbage. Our MSW 3100w/160amp Magnum was about $1600, that seems pretty cheep to me. We run computers, LCD TVs, microwave, tools, compressor, battery chargers, phone chargers, LCD TV, CFL bulbs, hot water heater, space heaters, blow dryers, heat guns, XBOX, DVD players, refridgerator and every kitchen appliance known to man all with no problems.

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+1

Xantrex has been through at least three ownership changes, most recently when Schneider, a large French electrical conglomerate (they also own the APC surge and UPS brand) bought it from the private equity group who had sent manufacturing off shore and discontinued making repairable product to get them out of the parts business. Customer service went far south too. Perhaps Schneider will make some improvements, but why not buy American owned, American made products which are repairable and have American customer support that answers the phone? I.E, Charles, Magnum, NewMar, Outback, and to a lesser extent ProMariner? Especially if you happen to be in America?

I could tell you my Xantrex customer service story for the high end XC charger that came with the boat when I bought it.. but I think you could guess how it goes..ridiculous.

We have a top loading freezer on our aft deck....of the home variety. It has been working for us for 5+ years....and was on the boat when we bought it. We keep it covered with a sunbrella cover...and when we are in motion...it is not supplied power, and we have found that it will keep well frozen for 12 hours without power. Its nothing fancy.

We need the freezer as we are fulltime liveaboards, and the refrigeration on the boat is a custom built refrigerator with two heavy duty holding plates....and a remote compressor that runs off 120VAC....it generally only runs about 2 hours a day...and while some things in its lowest point might freeze....at current settings...its not set up to be a freezer.

It just isn't true that a domestic freezer will have poorer insulation than a "marine" freezer...and that is the case with 'fridges, too. The walls (& therefore insulation) of most marine refrigerator/freezers are thinner and the dimensions overall non -standard, to cope with our often odd/limited spaces. And marine 'fridges have other worthwhile attributes, like lockable door catches. & tabs ready-made to assist with bolting the appliance down (both not normally needed in domestic installs). But the efficiency gains from a domestic appliance's superior insulation will substantially or entirely offset inverter losses. Victron, one of the world's leading suppliers of inverter/chargers, recommends using domestic refrigeration appliances where possible for this reason. Get the domestic freezer with the best insulation characteristics you can find then pay attention to how you will fasten it down and secure its door/lid.

My neighbour parked at my wharf left his freezer on too long. Hate when that happens!

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I agree with the above advice. Place the inverter as close to the battery bank as possible. The instructions on my inverter required that it be placed within 6 feet of the 12v source.

If you need to make a long run for the power to the freezer, do it with a 110 AC line from the inverter. You won't experience the losses associated with DC.

One of Gray Hawk's previous owners has a domestic freezer on his current Defever. He uses it on regular trips to Alaska. He has disconnected the thermostat so that, when powered, the freezer compressor runs nonstop. His theory is that he gets the freezer "really cold" and then it holds longer when its not running. Anybody here have any experience with that practice? SWMBO says we need to have a freezer before we leave for Alaska and it will be a residential freezer of some description.

I would be tempted to load up the freezer with the fish I'm catching. I would be put under the jail with a chest freezer on the rose.