Radar on the ICW

Hello -
We have been learning about trawlers, attending some events, etc. for the last year or so. Even took a training course. We plan to do the southeast coast ICW, and maybe the Bahamas.
As an admitted "newbie", I admit to have been heavily influenced by Skipper Bob. He says that generally, south of Norfolk, extended fog is rare, and on the ICW, you generally have the option to wait it out before leaving in the morning. Sounds like good advice to me, and I don't plan to be be out at night.
The admiral-to-be and I were having a discussion about the value of radar under those conditions. I said that if we were fortunate enough to buy a new boat that did not have radar installed, I would consider not having it. She heartily disagreed.
So given my parameters (and I know there is always the unexpected), what you you experienced folks think about the notion of going without - at least initially?
Thank you!

Personally...I wouldn't have a boat without radar...at least not larger than my dinghy.

I would have to take a little bit of issue with Skipper Bob... While fog that lasts days on end is not prevalent on the east coast...that is not what I would be worried about. I'm not going to move in the fog...certainly not in the ICW... But what I do have my radar for is in the event that a fogbank rolls in while we are out there on the ICW or offshore.... I want to be able to see what is around me, and who is around me... I spent a lot of time in GA...on the east coast...and there was no shortage of fog... Get the radar. Learn how to use it... Being caught in the fog and literally blind..is not fun.... Becoming very disoriented in a channel is bad...and you cannot rely entirely on a GPS to keep you on the magenta line....

I think you post a fair question. I've lived and boated in SW Florida for over 20 years and it is rare to get fog so bad that a radar is needed. However it does happen and has happened to me aboard a non radar equipped sailboat.

Most boats owned by TF members are of the size that typically have radar as we do aboard our 35' motor yacht. I use it most of the time but rarely use it for navigation. It's fun sometimes to track other boats and watch their speed in no wake zones.

If your budget doesn't allow for radar I wouldn't sweat it and watch the weather. Down here the weather visibility forecasts are pretty accurate.

I have left marinas and anchorages in the clear, and then ran into a fog bank. Especially in the Georgia ICW and along the Panhandle GICW. Radar comes in very handy at those times. A radar overlay on the chart plotter is even better. Love it.

A radar also comes in very useful to track thunder storms. You can get by without radar, but I wouldn't want to.

timjet said:

If your budget doesn't allow for radar I wouldn't sweat it and watch the weather. Down here the weather visibility forecasts are pretty accurate.

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We don't have radar here in NC and don't miss it. There has been one time in 4 years when we wish we had it, but that was a freak day fog on Bogue Sound. Still, someday we DO want it. However, we are in no hurry. There is a list of stuff as long as my arm that we need to improve our boating experience before we get to radar. Don't let the existence of radar be the deal-breaker for cruising the ICW. Especially in the summer. The difference in water temps versus air temp is not great enough - often enough for it to fog very often.

Tom-

We have our radar on even during clear days. Two reasons which come to mind are:

1. Able to track other vessels (tankers, container ships, ferries, etc) as "targets" to calculate intersect and crossing points, and
2. We can see what's approaching from behind as our rear visibility isn't as good as a raised pilot-house boat.

I'm sure others will add to the list.

I have used my radar twice on the ICW. On both occasions I had pushed on after dark to make a nice anchorage. I know that it isn't a good idea to run the ditch at night, but....

Having radar overlay the chartplotter is very comforting. The GPS tells you where you are; the chartplotter tells you where the buoy should be; and radar tells you where the buoys and other traffic is.

David

If my boat's moving, the radar is on. You need to learn how to use it, adjust it, and interpret what it's showing you while it's clear. Not when the SHTF.

Chances are if you don't go to Maine , you will never miss it.

I cruise the AICW and do not have radar on my boat. If it's foggy, I stay where I am until it clears up. I rarely travel at night.

I make it a point to never go so fast that I cannot stop in the distance I can see.

I think you'll be fine without radar.

Currently on a 4 month trip between NJ and Ga. Left without RADAR...not in this years budget but will have it next year.

I have been navigating with RADAR professionally for around 35 years and can use it pretty well.

My advice is similar to others...you really don't need it...it just adds flexibility and a little comfort if caught unexpectedly.

Recreational boating is about fun and electronics while not necessary make boating so much easier..stress is reduced making it more FUN!

One issue with RADAR is if you aren't fairly proficient with it...it's OK to use for not getting run over by something big...but navigating the narrow, twisting and very shallow bends of the ICW would be out of most cruisers abilities so staying put is a great option over spending the $1500-2000 on the RADAR.

And for those that say their cheap little RADAR units work just fine either have so much experience they truly understand how limited they are or don't have enough experience to truly know how limited they are.

I have cruised the east coast for the last ten years logging well over 15,000 miles (6,000 in less then the last two years) Maine to the Keys and have never had radar. It has never been an issue for us. Frankly the few times we have been caught in fog the fog was never thick enough at our slow speeds that we could see far enough ahead. We have a Standard Horizon VHF680 with a hailer and automated fog signals which we turn on in the case of fog.

If our boat had a modern chart overlay radar it would be nice but for me it's primary value would be for our night cruising offshore. It really comes down to personal preference and whatever it takes to keep you comfortable. If a radar makes you feel safer and therefore the experience is more fun then by all means put it high on your list, they are not expensive.

PS. Our last two boats had radar but the systems were old and no overlay so I ripped them out and sold them.

FF said:

Chances are if you don't go to Maine , you will never miss it.

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But if you primarily boat in Maine you will need it and use it. Unless you don't care to leave the harbor for a good portion of the (short) boating season.

We have our radar on whenever we go out. Sometimes just in standby mode if no fog but, more often than not, transmitting even if just for practice and to enhance situational awareness.

Keith said:

If my boat's moving, the radar is on. You need to learn how to use it, adjust it, and interpret what it's showing you while it's clear. Not when the SHTF.

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I agree, ours is on when we leave the dock.

Then again you could always have a video that you could pop in and become an expert in less that 30 minutes as Marin claims.

No fog here but I would have it just to have a back up for gps. We run islands and marshbanks and that stuff is always on the move. Besides the occasional thunderstorm during the day just don't run at night. You should be ok.

For every opinion you get that you don't need it, you'll get another that says you do and then there are the opinions that you can take it or leave it. I hope this will bring you to the realization that whether you need radar or not will be decided by you. Every boat is a compilations of the wants and needs of the individual. Every post you have received so far is correct. For that Skipper. It's good to have input from fellow boaters but decide what's important to you and then go with that. Chuck

Capn Chuck said:

For every opinion you get that you don't need it, you'll get another that says you do and then there are the opinions that you can take it or leave it. I hope this will bring you to the realization that whether you need radar or not will be decided by you. Every boat is a compilations of the wants and needs of the individual. Every post you have received so far is correct. For that Skipper. It's good to have input from fellow boaters but decide what's important to you and then go with that. Chuck

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Well yes, but, the OP is a beginner. He doesn't have a trawler or any cruising experience to base a decision on. That's why he asked.

really to use radar effectively, you need to have had lessons and be able to interpret the picture, all the while driving your boat and navigating. It's a challenge best left to the experienced. In the ICW if not sure about what's ahead, just slow down or get off on the side. I have it, but usefullness is so/so.

We used our radar twice during our ICW trip; rain & heavy haze in GA. Nice to have in combination with the paper charts & GPS plotter. We would have been fine without it, but it was comforting to have the additional info input on the bridge. Perhaps, as you build experience with your boat, you'll be able to make the decisions necessary to best equip your vessel so that your needs are met. Enjpy

Not anywhere close to the AICW, but do not have it nor wish I did.

wizard said:

The admiral-to-be and I were having a discussion about the value of radar ... I said that if we were fortunate enough to buy a new boat that did not have radar installed, I would consider not having it. She heartily disagreed.
...given my parameters (and I know there is always the unexpected), what you you experienced folks think...

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You are definitely getting radar.

BruceK said:

You are definitely getting radar.

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How did we all miss that? He's getting radar, enjoy!

wizard said:

The admiral-to-be and I were having a discussion about the value of radar under those conditions. I said that if we were fortunate enough to buy a new boat that did not have radar installed, I would consider not having it. She heartily disagreed.

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Like most of the posters on this thread I believe radar is an extremely valuable tool even if you don't plan on boating in the fog or at night.

I have never boated the east coast so I don't know if the conditions I have encountered in Washington, DC, Virginia and the Carolinas can occur on the coast, but I have visited my friend at Virginia Tech and rented a plane to take him up in and when we got off the ground we couldn't see squat because of the heat haze or pollution or whatever it is that happens there. If this kind of thing occurs along the coast, even if the sky is blue straight up the haze could obscure your distance vision across the surface. Radar will help you know what's out there.

We have found that boating is a never-say-never sort of thing. We said we'd never run at night because of all the stuff in the water here, but we have miscalculated currents or were late leaving our spot in the islands and ran the last hour across Bellingham Bay to our marina after sunset. Radar was invaluable then.

We do get fog here so radar is an obvious benefit there.

Ray made a good point earlier about the value of radar--- assuming the set can let you do this--- in figuring out closing angles and distances and whether you want to try to cross in front of something or go behind it. Yes, this is pretty easy to judge close-in but if you boat in an area of ship traffic and constricted waterways it can help to figure out your plan well in advance.

And, as you get more experienced in this kind of boating you may want to start expanding your horizons. You might want to travel north to places where fog is more common. Or you may get to the point where you want to travel at night or at least finish the run home after dark.

So no, radar is not essential to boating successfully. We don't know many people who don't have it, but the few we do know go everywhere we go and more and have no problems. But unlike some kinds of electronic do-dads you can load a boat up wtih, I think radar is as valuable as a GPS plotter.

If we had to pick just one, it would be tough but we would pick the plotter. Our smaller fishing boat has no radar but it has a very good plotter and this is invaluable up the north end of Vancouver Island in the maze of islands and channels where we fish. The way we use this boat radar would not be of much value.

But it is extremely valuable to the way we use the GB, every bit as much as the two big plotters. We have our radar on and monitor it the whole time we are running the boat even if it's a nice clear day with excellent visibility. It keeps us in practice for when it's not a nice clear day, which up here is most of the time.

Been on many trips on boats with radar, but seldom has made a difference. On one boat trip we had a commercial radar. That makes you undersand how weak the radar units are on most pleasure craft.

Brings up a question on the new 4G radars. Any experience with these? Since we currently do not have a radar I am considering one.

bikeandboat said:

Been on many trips on boats with radar, but seldom has made a difference. On one boat trip we had a commercial radar. That makes you undersand how weak the radar units are on most pleasure craft.

Brings up a question on the new 4G radars. Any experience with these? Since we currently do not have a radar I am considering one.

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No personal experience yet but I have had mixed reports from very good friends..one's a marine electronics store owner/installer with ton's of experience through big ship radar who said the 3G was marginally better than HD radar and from an 2 experienced captains with many years of party/whale watcher/personal boat experience who said it was night and day....in close where us smaller guys usually need it most.

So I'm holding out till at least fall to make my decision...maybe after another summer of reports I'll have a better picture.

I never leave the dock planning to need my radar but I usually turn it on anyway. There's only been a few times when I absolutely would have been hooped without it but I end up using it most trips anyway. Its great for figuring out just how far away another vessel is and as Marin pointed out, for figuring closing angles. I usually set mine for 4 miles which is roughly 3/4 of an hour travel for us. At that range it is surprising the number of times when a vessel will appear on it that I haven't seen on the water, even though I think we have good visibility that day. Particularly tugs will often blend into the water or background islands and not be immediately visible without binoculars. The radar gives me a heads up for that situation and it also serves as a rear view mirror. I wouldn't want to be without it and on those days when the fog rolls in and I can barely see the Sarca on the bow it would be dangerous not to have it.

BruceK said:

You are definitely getting radar.

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Probably better get two or at least 2 displays. One for him, and one for her.

This would not be used in the ICW, but I have not seen MARPA mentioned. MARPA is mini-automatic radar plotting aid. My radar will keep up with up to 10 targets. When offshore it is great for tracking direction and speed of other vessels. This allows you to determine if a crossing situation is developing. Good weather or bad it is a valuable aid.

bikeandboat said:

Been on many trips on boats with radar, but seldom has made a difference. On one boat trip we had a commercial radar. That makes you undersand how weak the radar units are on most pleasure craft.

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Moonstruck said:

This would not be used in the ICW, but I have not seen MARPA mentioned. MARPA is mini-automatic radar plotting aid. My radar will keep up with up to 10 targets. When offshore it is great for tracking direction and speed of other vessels. This allows you to determine if a crossing situation is developing. Good weather or bad it is a valuable aid.

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Don, I believe we have the same plotter/radar; Raytheon RL 80CRC. Mine has the HS1 and I believe yours is HS2. I have used MARPA many times to track other boats up and down the ICW mainly just to keep in practice and to watch their speed in no wake zones.

The RL 80CRC plotter is so difficult to use and the route line so difficult to see, I got a 7" Garmin touch screen that I love. So I rarely use the plotter but do use the radar. I'm thinking of either adding radar to the Garmin unit or completely upgrading my navionics to a larger screen with digital radar. I think the 7" Garmin is a little small for radar display.

I headed to the Miami boat show Monday to see if any deals can be had. I'm assuming the new digital radar have MARPA or something similar.