Wire options, tinned or stranded

Hello gents and ladies, I am getting close to rewiring the whole vessel. Tinned wire will cost a fortune and the non tinned stranded wire will be a much more affordable option. The boat had romex and old cotton wrapped wire before. I know a lot of responses will say to hire a marine electrician but I have no plan on doing that. All the wiring will be accessible and anything in a wall will be in a conduit. Now, has anyone rewired a boat using the non tinned stranded wire? Thanks Paul

I would use the tinned, fine stranded, marine grade wire. But then I hate to redo anything I have done and seem to think everything should last forever.
However, if you were to use adhesive lined crimp connectors, apply copper based never-seize to the stripped ends, & use a first class crimp tool; there is no reason moisture should reach the wire.
Marine wire is more flexiable and has many more strands for a given gauge too.

Tinned and stranded is best.

I have owned several small boats that had untinned wire and it concucts electricity very well. If you use the heat shrink with adhesive connectors it should last a long time. Make sure it meets the Coast Guard requirements.

We used to sell untinned wire in our store until Ancor made a big deal about tinned wire. Sales of untinned wire dropped to the point that we quit carring it.

Ancor was of course right. The best wire for use on a boat has lots of fine strands and is tinned. There are other brands on the market now that are just as good as Ancor and a good bit cheaper. If you want to save some money, look for some of these other brands. If you do decide to go with bare copper, at least spring forultra flexible fine stranded wire.

Tinned and stranded is best.- JAT

He knows that. His Q was not "what is best?" it was "Has anyone done it without using the "Best", and what do you think of that option?"

If Nomex has been adequate for the boat's history to now, you could probably get away without the expense of the very best, IMHO. All that will be affected is your bragging rights.

It'll work until you try to sell it. They you may have to rewire it again.

I'm thinking the next buyer of his vessel will be ok with house wiring, if it is done correctly.

There are a lot of other issues, that if done incorrectly can kill.

Tho you are not asking, there are a few good books on boat wiring.

Tinned wire , proper tinned connections ,installed with a proper squeeze tool , with a tinned star washer added under each screw head is probably "the best".

Tho I add the use of a heavy copper roof soldering iron to be sure the solder actually flows when crimped.The roofing iron ( 4 lbs of copper) carries so much heat that the terminal can be touched , and the wire beyond does not solidify.

After all you paid extra for the flex of the fine stranded wire.

The difference in cost is mostly time.

Cheap solid Romex is at Home Cheapo , a car ride away.

Real marine wire needs to be ordered.

Our technique is to order large single wire #10 , (which is overkill for most boat needs) on a 500 or 1000 ft spool.
2 spools of what ever color is in vogue with the regulating gestapo (= and - ) and you are set for this and the next boat.

In really big rolls wire is useful cheap! Even Anchor brand.

AC with #10 in 3 strand for house needs .

My thoughts are for wire going outside and into the deep parts of the bilge....tinned is nice but as many say...might still be overkill.

There are no regs stating that stranded wire be used on rec boats so If I was going to do a long single level boat...I may make the long straight runs of 110 wire just cheapo Big Box Store romex. The copper plumbing in my boat for steering and fresh water isn't flexible and is 25 years old...so as long as solid wire is supported and not used in loops or hanging "for any distance"...I can't imagine why it's not acceptable (except by conehead surveyors that want to make a big deal about it). I'd rather buy a boat wired with solid wire that was done well than buy one with tinned like 99 percent of the boats out there and the wiring is garbage.

This is my second boat that passed survey with the second/and or genset subpanel that was Big Box Store regular steel CB's and CB panels. They work just fine and will save money too.

bluebyu said:

Tho you are not asking, there are a few good books on boat wiring.

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Blue, I've got the Boatowner's Illustrated, electrical handbook 2nd by Charlie Wing. I'm not to impressed with it and would love some other suggestions.

You don't HAVE to use tinned. Properly installed connectors and shrink will keep un-tinned wire sealed up nicely. Tinned wire is not a requirement, however, as a precaution, if it were me, I would use tinned in the wettest spaces. But in the cabin area, all bets are off. I don't think I, personally, would be comfortable with Romex, but Fred makes a good point. Our slow little trawler doesn't get very much of a beating like... sayyy... a 50' SeaRay, so I would think solid wire would be fine on our boat.

Still, if you are hiring a guy to do it and he insists that he use tinned wire throughout and states it is an ABYC requirement? RUN AWAY! Find another guy.

Maybe it's a non issue, Home cheepo was 500' roll for $70.00 and tinned marine wire.com 500' of #12 tinned was $111.50. That's about 60% more to not have any questions or regrets.

While no one can ever be viewed as the perfect source, Nigel Calder's book, "Boatowners Mechanical and Electrical Manual" is a valued asset.

Also Edward L. Smith's "Handbook of Marine Electronic & Electrical Systems". Electronics are dated, basic electrical is pretty helpful.

Good luck, hope you get to enjoy using your boat soon.

Hope this helps.

Greetings,
Mr. swanpu. There is a fairly exhaustive thread on this very topic in the archives somewhere. I can't remember what the title is as the subject may have morphed from the original topic as is the norm on TF. To the best of my recollection, tinned wire is NOT necessary.

Tinned wire will perform well and look good in a Yachtworld listing. It is not "required" though.

Critical systems though wouldn't be a bad idea though as others have suggester. Bilge pumps, nav lights etc. Big boys do not use tinned wire and have no problem selling or getting insurance. Like Fast Fred said, buy in 1,000 foot spools and save money. Wiring the Rose is gonna need it.

My .02 good luck Paul

Funny about the tinned wire...often you bust your butt and bank account to get it, use it and install it correctly...

Then the "appliance" or "system" doesn't and the connections right inside some plug or access late is plain steel/bare wire. Even the big name marine elctronics didn't for the longest while and I'm not sure which ones do now either.

koliver said:

Tinned and stranded is best.- JAT

He knows that. His Q was not "what is best?" it was "Has anyone done it without using the "Best", and what do you think of that option?"

If Nomex has been adequate for the boat's history to now, you could probably get away without the expense of the very best, IMHO. All that will be affected is your bragging rights.

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I realize that... Our boat was built in 78'....and the wiring while stranded, is not tinned... It has survived...and still works...but whenever I put in new wiring or replace some for one reason or the other... I use the tinned and stranded....

Just plain stranded can very well be used...but as a couple of people have said...it would be best to use heat shrink connectors or shrink tubing over the connections.

I would just make sure that the wire is of good quality copper and stranded, and sized for the required use.

RT Firefly said:

Greetings,
Mr. swanpu. There is a fairly exhaustive thread on this very topic in the archives somewhere. I can't remember what the title is as the subject may have morphed from the original topic as is the norm on TF.

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That was my Winter Project thread (in Electrical sub forum) from last year about this time.

Before everybody gets their underwear in a knot about 'proper' remember the question was about low cost. I have had very good luck wiring stuff, trailers especially with cheap orange drop cord. No it is not tinned. I solder and heat shrink with adhesive lined tube. You can buy a 100' 14 ga. 3 conducter cord for under $10. If you shop. 16 ga. is cheaper yet. Cut the plugs off and use. You can't buy single strand stranded for the price. The stuff is really tough. Now let the cackling begin.

Hell, they saved $50 on the shuttle Challenger's O-rings...

swampu said:

Hello gents and ladies, I am getting close to rewiring the whole vessel. Tinned wire will cost a fortune and the non tinned stranded wire will be a much more affordable option. The boat had romex and old cotton wrapped wire before. I know a lot of responses will say to hire a marine electrician but I have no plan on doing that. All the wiring will be accessible and anything in a wall will be in a conduit. Now, has anyone rewired a boat using the non tinned stranded wire? Thanks Paul

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Mate if you seal up the ends and any joins with liquid tape or another sealer, the use of non tinned wire will be fine.

The cost saving for the wire is so small compared to the over all cost of the refit, I would use the best. Besides if you go cheap then you have to take the time to use the proper connections and shrink wrap which is time and money. You will probable spend more time and money going with non tin vs. tin. Also, I been told electricity is conducted on the out side of the wire that is why multi stand is recommended and the more stands the better.

Don’t be cheap when it comes to electrical and make sure you meet ABYC as surveyors and insurance companies do check. We had an insurance required audit and 75% of his survey was on the electrical, which we had to bring up to ABYC standards, cost us about 3 grand, and 40+ hour of my time. So pay now or pay latter.

swampu said:

............. Now, has anyone rewired a boat using the non tinned stranded wire?

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No doubt many people who don't know any better have done just that.

If you want to do things the "right" way, you will use tinned, stranded marine wire and follow the ABYC specifications. If you're just trying to keep some old POS boat afloat, anything made of copper will work.

It's your choice.

Phil Fill said:

............, I been told electricity is conducted on the out side of the wire that is why multi stand is recommended and the more stands the better. ..............

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You need to start hanging arouns with smarter people. For direct current and low frequency alternating current, the entire conductor carries the current. It's only as you approach microwave frequencies that the current is carried in the outside of the conductor.

The strands are for flexibility. You can bend stranded wire back and forth and it will be fine. Bend solid wire back and forth a few times and it will break. Try it yourself with a coat hanger.

My only problem with un-tinned wire is it's refusal to take solder if it's not fresh and shiny...like when one needs to replace a trailer light that's been in salt water and the un-tinned wire is is black a foot or more up under the insulation. I can't bring myself to put a crimp connector on over that corrosion, and I'd really like to solder the new light's wires.

There is a solution - a wire wheel on the drill:


Now I can solder or crimp with confidence.

Never to my knowledge, have I had a problem with corrosion causing resistance on an established connection, or having that corrosion cause a loss of mechanical strength, so I'm not inspired to spend the extra on tinned wire.

When we rewired Big Duck, we used the wire from a retired 50' 30amp shore power cord for much of the job.

This is where I bought all my electrical wires and connectors and found them very reasonable.

Genuinedealz > Marine Electrical Supply - Boat and Marine Electrical Connectors, Tubing

Genuinedealz... got my stuff there too. Good to deal with.

Greetings,
Can anyone quote chapter and verse (AYBC or USCG) which states tinned wire is a requirement please? I did a quick search on the AYBC site and couldn't find any mention of tinned wire. As several members have mentioned, properly terminated non-tinned wire works as well and lasts as long as tinned wire. I suspect the tinned wire controversy is simply marketing hype to increase profits to the vendors. If I am wrong about this, chapter and verse please.
One thing I DID notice interestingly enough is there is no mention of the crimping tools you get with the 500 piece electrical lug "kit" but I would highly recommend a proper crimping tool such as a ratchet style.

Thanks guys, err, I guess. I found that my local engine parts supplier can order it in 500' rolls for cheeper than home cheepo can get the non tinned, I guess I would be a fool for not using tinned wire now.

RT Firefly said:

Greetings,
Can anyone quote chapter and verse (AYBC or USCG) which states tinned wire is a requirement please? I did a quick search on the AYBC site and couldn't find any mention of tinned wire.

Click to expand...

That's because there isn't one.

Oh... BTW, here is the thread with the discussion about tinned vs. not tinned:

http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s4/battery-wire-5178.html