I posted on another thread regarding the betterof 2 imported outboards to buy.My comment was and remains why not consider domestic build, quality of prouct is as good and technology is equal and you would be supporting the home market .Am I alone in this thought, I try to avoid buying import where ever possible although its getting harder and I feel If we keep buying offshore we will have no good jobs left in this country.Any thoughts on this.
buy at home
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RT Firefly
Enigma
Greetings,
Mr. expat. Your point is valid. As has been discussed in several other threads, with the globalization of manufacturing it is becoming increasingly difficult to buy or even identify a domestic product. At one point in the past I drove a 1984 K-car. The one thing I noted, and I don't know about the rest of the car, was the air cleaner was made in Mexico. This was 1984! I have no idea why Chrysler outsourced such a simple part but there it was.
There are still good companies in the US that produce a top quality product but from my observation they seem to be smaller and directed to a niche market. The mass produced consumer goods tend to be produced offshore at a cheaper price thus generating higher profits for the owners. I DO make some effort to buy domestic products but sometimes it's hard to justify paying, in some cases, substantially more than an imported item that will fulfill the same purpose.
Mr. expat. Your point is valid. As has been discussed in several other threads, with the globalization of manufacturing it is becoming increasingly difficult to buy or even identify a domestic product. At one point in the past I drove a 1984 K-car. The one thing I noted, and I don't know about the rest of the car, was the air cleaner was made in Mexico. This was 1984! I have no idea why Chrysler outsourced such a simple part but there it was.
There are still good companies in the US that produce a top quality product but from my observation they seem to be smaller and directed to a niche market. The mass produced consumer goods tend to be produced offshore at a cheaper price thus generating higher profits for the owners. I DO make some effort to buy domestic products but sometimes it's hard to justify paying, in some cases, substantially more than an imported item that will fulfill the same purpose.
I don't believe in that philosophy at all. I will always buy the best possible product for the amount I'm willing to spend on it regardless of where it'a made. If the US can't compete I'm not going to settle for a poorer quality product thinking that this in some way will help us compete.
We were going to buy a new GE refrigerator the other month until we were informed that the model we wanted was going to be delayed several months because of difficulty getting the assembly line up to speed in their US factory. We were told this was due in part because of workforce problems (mistakes, not union). We didn't want to wait only to get a potentially defective product, so we bought a Samsung refrigerator, which at the time was the highest rated by Consumer Reports and other ratings companies.
However, tomorrow we are ordering a new pickup to replace two of our older vehicles. After researching the contenders very carefully, including Toyota, we have determined that a Ford will give us the best product for the money. It's a special order and I have no idea where it will made--- I wouldn't be surprised if it's Mexico--- but the "where" played no part whatsoever in our decision. If Ford made its pickups in China, we would still buy one for this particular application.
All our outboard motors are Yamahas. We would not even consider any US-made outboards today because observation and conversations with owners we know who have them have convinced us that the risk of getting a less-than-top-quality motor out of the US manufacturers is simply too high. Now it may be that some of the US outboard brands are now made overseas, I don't know. But simply being made outside the US is no guarantee of quality, either.
In the matter of many if not most consumer products the US has brought its "also ran" manufacturing status on itself. I have no interest in lowering my product expectations and standards to the level that seems typical for many of the consumer products still made here.
There are exceptions, particularly in the automotive industry with BMW, Subaru, Honda, etc. being very successful in the production of vehicles in US plants. The CEO of the BMW plant in South Carolina told me that his plant regularly outperforms it's counterpart in Germany. But...... it's a very new plant and the assembly process is largely automated. So as long as nobody kicks the plug out of the wall, the vehicles more or less build themselves.
I certainly have no problem buying products from American companies--- Apple, for example. But where these products are actually made is of no consequence to me as long as they perform up to my expectations. Unfortunately the slogan for more and more US-made products seems to be "Overpriced and Underwhelming."
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RT Firefly
Enigma
Greetings,
Mr. MM. Good plan but so many companies that used to be domestically owned both in Canada and the USA are now owned offshore. So by your buying Canadian you will probably be keeping a fellow countryman in a job BUT profits are not staying in Canada and will not necessarily be re-invested by the parent company in their Canadian operations thus ensuring the eventual demise of said company.
Just a few quick facts I got off the net. Macdonald Tobacco established 1858 sold in 1974 to the Americans and now owned by the Japanese. Seagrams established 1857 assets broken up in 2000 and sold to American, British and French interests. Macmillan Publishing founded 1905 sold to US in 2002. Woodwards Department Store established 1892 assets taken over taken over by the Hudson's Bay Company (established in 1607) in 1993 which was then taken over by NRDC (based in NYC) fully in 2012.
I think the only 100% Canadian product you can buy now is probably maple syrup.
Mr. MM. Good plan but so many companies that used to be domestically owned both in Canada and the USA are now owned offshore. So by your buying Canadian you will probably be keeping a fellow countryman in a job BUT profits are not staying in Canada and will not necessarily be re-invested by the parent company in their Canadian operations thus ensuring the eventual demise of said company.
Just a few quick facts I got off the net. Macdonald Tobacco established 1858 sold in 1974 to the Americans and now owned by the Japanese. Seagrams established 1857 assets broken up in 2000 and sold to American, British and French interests. Macmillan Publishing founded 1905 sold to US in 2002. Woodwards Department Store established 1892 assets taken over taken over by the Hudson's Bay Company (established in 1607) in 1993 which was then taken over by NRDC (based in NYC) fully in 2012.
I think the only 100% Canadian product you can buy now is probably maple syrup.
MurrayM
Guru
Hi RT,
Yeah, I was being a tad feces-ish, which is slightly related to being facetious, only messier.
It's all a house of cards held up by the force of greed. When it falls, it going to be ugly.
Yeah, I was being a tad feces-ish, which is slightly related to being facetious, only messier.
It's all a house of cards held up by the force of greed. When it falls, it going to be ugly.
FF
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"It's all a house of cards held up by the force of greed."
"Greed" (competition ) is what gives us progress , new products at lower cost.
"Greed" (competition ) is what gives us progress , new products at lower cost.
MurrayM
Guru
1) A system which is not fully understood cannot be effectively managed.
2) Perpetual growth in a closed system is impossible.
3) Our planet cannot maintain our species at the current rate of growth.
4) There is a "tipping point" whereby system collapse or failure is unavoidable...where is it? Have we crossed it already?
Anode
Guru
Capture, Neuter and Release
RT Firefly
Enigma
Greetings,
Mr. MM. as to your point #2. This is pretty close...
The sealed bottle garden still thriving after 40 years without fresh air or water | Mail Online
Mr. MM. as to your point #2. This is pretty close...
The sealed bottle garden still thriving after 40 years without fresh air or water | Mail Online
LaBomba
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I to buy North American, not just Canadian, whenever I can so long as price and quality are comparable and I am even willing to pay a slight premium in price for NA made products but one thing I refuse to do is buy C___e made food products. There is enough evidence out there that quality control standards are low or non-existent and if I can't buy a domestic product, fresh, frozen, canned etc., I would rather go without. And, it is not always easy to identify these products as many say, prepared for, imported by, etc. with no markings as to where they were made/produced. No thanks.
MurrayM
Guru
That would be the exponential growth seeking Right Winged Vulture, correct?
MurrayM
Guru
That was scaled up to human size once. Be interesting to travel back in time and see what weirdness unfolded on Easter Island, don't you think?
We tend to buy American, but like others have said, I don't buy American crap. I drive a BMW, my wife drives an Infiniti. When we travel I compare the American cars we rent to what we drive at home and, quite honestly, I have only found one American car that drove as well. That was a Buick Lucerne.
That being said, I would not buy one because the long term track record of American cars is that they don't hold up as long as some of the foreign makes.
In many other products we have no choice. Almost all electronics products are produced overseas, appliances are made all over the map, etc.
You pays your money and you takes your chances.
That being said, I would not buy one because the long term track record of American cars is that they don't hold up as long as some of the foreign makes.
In many other products we have no choice. Almost all electronics products are produced overseas, appliances are made all over the map, etc.
You pays your money and you takes your chances.
Pokey2
Veteran Member
As for the "Black" domestic motors. Most everything under 60 hp is built in China or Japan. And alot of the parts for 75 hp and up come from Mexico. So does it really matter what brand you buy?
We bought a Ford truck today, although not because we care about where it will be built but because we determined it's the best tool for the job.
But while the US may have lost it in terms of being competitive in manufacturing I have to say that when it comes to the service industries--- fast food, car dealers, etc.--- we lead the world, I think.
A few days ago I was clued into a terrific dealership we had not thought of using before and the entire transaction from when we sat down this morning with our salesman to when the manager hit "send" to shoot our order off to Ford took 18 minutes. My wife happened to note the start and top times.
Special order, exactly what we wanted to pay, cash deal, eighteen minutes, and we're out the door on the way home. That's what I call efficient and cost-effective service. Hopefully the bozos who build the damn thing will do as good a job as the guy who helped us buy it. Actually I'm hoping that Ford has migrated to robots like so many of the other auto companies have these days.
In manufacturing, particularly of intricate products built on an assembly line--- vehicles, refrigerators, etc.--- I think robotics represent the ultimate road back from what unions have done to US manufacturing. Robots bring a level of precision and consistent quality that humans can't achieve, so you get a better product, and they allow companies to dispense with costly and uncompetitive workforces. A win-win.
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Andy G
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Look, it's not all doom and gloom and one way traffic.
Marin especially will be thrilled to note that the worlds greatest source of tractor grease, Vegemite! is now owned by an American company.You may have lost the edge in the automotive race but you gained Vegemite.
Marin especially will be thrilled to note that the worlds greatest source of tractor grease, Vegemite! is now owned by an American company.You may have lost the edge in the automotive race but you gained Vegemite.
I gave up trying to figure out where cars came from. I'd been buying Acuras but felt bad about the American auto workers. Then I found out the cars are built in Maryland. So I felt better.
Still I wanted a four door "American" car with a standard shift. The only one I found and bought was a Chrysler PT Cruiser. Later, I come to find it was built in Mexico. Ugh!
Good luck with your Fords. They may have been built on the moon. I'm not sure it matters.
Still I wanted a four door "American" car with a standard shift. The only one I found and bought was a Chrysler PT Cruiser. Later, I come to find it was built in Mexico. Ugh!
Good luck with your Fords. They may have been built on the moon. I'm not sure it matters.
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Tah Daaaah
Oh, and by the way Marin, take heart, I think you wil find you Ford is of acceptable quality. Not being a native Aussie, blinded by loyalty to their precious Holdens and Ford Falcons, especially having owned two of the latter, which still had the same fault cropping up, and same bits breaking or falling off between the two models which were 10 years apart in manufacture, I was never a fan. However, I have to admit since test-driving the Ford Territory, (sold under some other name I think there in the US), even though we settled on the Subaru Outback, the latest Fords (and Holdens - also sold in US under the Chevvy name I think), are now recognised by those who know as world class cars in design and quality.
Now Marin will be able to celebrate the arrival of his new Ford truck/Ute/ whatever with one of these Andy.....Look, it's not all doom and gloom and one way traffic.
Marin especially will be thrilled to note that the worlds greatest source of tractor grease, Vegemite! is now owned by an American company.You may have lost the edge in the automotive race but you gained Vegemite.
Oh, and by the way Marin, take heart, I think you wil find you Ford is of acceptable quality. Not being a native Aussie, blinded by loyalty to their precious Holdens and Ford Falcons, especially having owned two of the latter, which still had the same fault cropping up, and same bits breaking or falling off between the two models which were 10 years apart in manufacture, I was never a fan. However, I have to admit since test-driving the Ford Territory, (sold under some other name I think there in the US), even though we settled on the Subaru Outback, the latest Fords (and Holdens - also sold in US under the Chevvy name I think), are now recognised by those who know as world class cars in design and quality.
Attachments
Peter-- the new Ford truck is replacing an old Ford truck that I bought new and is now exactly 30 years old. Still runs okay but the interior is falling apart and in comfort and amenities it's a Conestoga wagon compared to today's trucks. In terms of longevity a Ford truck is a pretty good investment.
I'm not too worried about the build quality. Auto assembly has become so automated and simple in terms of the human tasks that as long as the people doing the job aren't actually dead it's pretty hard to mess it up, I think. Although I would certainly prefer it if the truck was going to be made in Japan or Korea where the work ethic probably has a positive effect on quality.
There's a good chance it will be put together in Canada. I don't know what the Canadian auto assemblers are like.
I'm not too worried about the build quality. Auto assembly has become so automated and simple in terms of the human tasks that as long as the people doing the job aren't actually dead it's pretty hard to mess it up, I think. Although I would certainly prefer it if the truck was going to be made in Japan or Korea where the work ethic probably has a positive effect on quality.
There's a good chance it will be put together in Canada. I don't know what the Canadian auto assemblers are like.
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Andy G
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Marin;
There's a good chance it will be put together in Canada. I don't know what the Canadian auto assemblers are like.[/QUOTE]
Cue the video of Monty Pythons "I'm a lumberjack" song. Where is RT Firefly when you need him?
There's a good chance it will be put together in Canada. I don't know what the Canadian auto assemblers are like.[/QUOTE]
Cue the video of Monty Pythons "I'm a lumberjack" song. Where is RT Firefly when you need him?
bluebyu
Senior Member
The disregard for the American, or other countries, workers is sad and ignorant.
With 2000 to 5000 workers in an auto plant, sure hope too many are not near dead.
How many workers work in the Boeing plant? Are they almost near dead?
While I have a much smaller work force than a auto plant, the manufacturing plant I manage has workers from 6 or7 countries. All work hard, and care that what they are assinged to do is done correctly.
Good luck with your new truck, feel sad for you and your arrogant views.
With 2000 to 5000 workers in an auto plant, sure hope too many are not near dead.
How many workers work in the Boeing plant? Are they almost near dead?
While I have a much smaller work force than a auto plant, the manufacturing plant I manage has workers from 6 or7 countries. All work hard, and care that what they are assinged to do is done correctly.
Good luck with your new truck, feel sad for you and your arrogant views.
MurrayM
Guru
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sunchaser
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I totally agree! Everybody should buy Canadian products 100% of the time
I try but most stuff in Canada costs way too much money. Some years ago I noted a brand name Irish sport coat in Dublin was about 50% more than the same coat in the US. Price out an Acura MDX made in Canada vs the same unit shipped into the US. Or, as I saw last week, in Canada gas at the pump going for $1.15 per litre vs $2.85 per gallon at the station near my home in Utah. The answer of course is in country taxes.
Some years ago I was so proud of my new US made Suburban, until I crawled under it and saw a sticker on the bumper that said Assembled in Mexico.
Buying made in the US or Canada is as noted by others, a guessing game as to country of origin.
An article caught my eyes some years ago where BMWs made at a spiffy new US factory had fewer defects than the same model assembled in Germany. Ditto the Mercedes M. And if one believes Consumer Retorts, buying any German car is a path to maintenance yipes. I noted the same when I switched from German to Japanese builds.
Marin, your new Ford PU - is it a diesel?
MurrayM
Guru
I was teasing the OP (hence the winky & smiley faces) because he didn't say what country he was referring to. A gentle reminder that there are other countries, sometimes with different views, that are also along for the ride on this little, lonely planet of ours.
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Hmmmm... I wonder then if the truck will come with a cool Mounty hat?
