Electric Trawler

Hi; I've just joined this forum and am interested in feedback/info re an electirc powered trawler:

My idea is to buy an 1980's ish trawler; fiberglass; approx. 34' to 38'; no flybridge; something along the lines of a mainship pilot but doesn't need to be one specifically. don't care about the condition of engine or interior per se' but want a solid hull.

Replace engine with a low rpm high torque electric motor and fuel tanks with rechargeble lithium-ion battery bank; install solar panels along with foldout 'wings' for additional solar radiation collection; also install some type of wind generator..........

Thats the basic thesis; would like info on types of motors, batteries; solar panels etc; anyone done this??; etc.

I'm somewaht amazed that in this day where its time to get off fossil fuel that the over a hundred years old idea of larger electric powered boats is not utilized........ intjonn

I think its a sound idea, but only if you use a diesel-electric system. I don't believe you'll be able to replenish your battery bank at a sufficient rate with solar panels or a wind generator.

To anyone/everyone:

I did not join this site for a social experience but for serious feedback/input. Am not interested in anything with fossil fuel and thought I made that clear. am only interested in ideas/ feedback on where to find potential capable motors; batteries and solar panels; etc. If you are some type of ship architect and/or EE with marine application then you can probably help me; otherwise please don't waste my time......

Requirement:
1 - low rpm high torque motor - don't know if ac or dc would be best; hp needs would be to propell a 15,000 +/- pound trawler to typical trawler speeds (6 -8 kts +/-)
2- lithium-ion rechargeble batteries; perhaps kind that are used to power the Navy's SDV? wouldn't mind the motor either but that might be classified.
3 - solar cells /panels - I can probably buy the cells and make my own panels but want to explore/analyze/inspect all of todays modern technology

again; has anyone done this?
thanx......intjonn

Could you be any more rude? Go away.

I'm not an EE, by any means, nor am I offering a "social experience" as you put it- but being in the marine business for the better part of the last 2 decades, I've seen and discussed ideas like this many times. I insure boats, and as a byproduct, spend a lot of time with surveyors, in various yards, and with marine architects and the like; I've never heard of a feasible electric only propulsion system for a displacement/semi-displacement trawler.

D/E- yes.

intjonn said:

To anyone/everyone:

I did not join this site for a social experience but for serious feedback/input. Am not interested in anything with fossil fuel and thought I made that clear.... otherwise please don't waste my time......

Click to expand...

That's about the rudest introduction I've seen! Good luck mining your information.

intjonn,

Look on BoatDesign.net

Why would you want to do this when diesel power is so economical? You'll pay MUCH MUCH more for considerably less capabilities w electric power. I think your'e time and effort would be better spent in the laboratory than at the dockside w electrical components.

Most people w hybrid or electric cars aren't trying to save money but "show the way" to others that can't seem to grasp the fact that we're quickly consuming a non-renewable fuel supply. This sacrifice to help others w their ignorant ways could be effort VERY well spent .... IF ... we run out of dino fuel before we find other solutions. There is probably (almost certainly) much more oil in the ground as we keep on finding more. Our salvation may well be in solar panels or windmills or some other new tech solution. And A bit like gas turbines in the 50s. the situation may not get much worse when we find a good solution to the dino fuel problem as perceived so much of this electric car and high tech stuff may eventually be considered a waste of time. Consider objectively the fact that fossil fuel is still very cheap.

However one person on this forum has a Prius just because he likes to have his hands on high tech stuff and you may be like him so this could be an interesting voyage indeed. In the 50s they put gas turbines in cars and trucks and those involved probably had a good time doing it.

The electric boat that is not to some significant degree diesel electric may need some very serious improvements in the electrical infrastructure on the float where you keep your boat and quite likely where you cruise too.

If you do acquire a boat for electrical power it MUST be of the full displacement type and of a more efficient type than most full disp boats we are familiar with. This I know something about so lets see this part of your design plans. And on your quest for efficiency here ... think light .. very light.

Not everyone here will consider you rude. Brusk .... ?

Intjohn,

You seem to be a bit reactionary to honest input. You will not get much support from the good folks here with that attitude.

Just curious, about how many hundreds of hours of experience do you have on a typical 36' diesel Trawler to base your plans on, or is this just an academic power engineering exercise?

intjonn said:

To anyone/everyone:

I did not join this site for a social experience but for serious feedback/input. Am not interested in anything with fossil fuel and thought I made that clear. am only interested in ideas/ feedback on where to find potential capable motors; batteries and solar panels; etc. If you are some type of ship architect and/or EE with marine application then you can probably help me; otherwise please don't waste my time......

Requirement:
1 - low rpm high torque motor - don't know if ac or dc would be best; hp needs would be to propell a 15,000 +/- pound trawler to typical trawler speeds (6 -8 kts +/-)
2- lithium-ion rechargeble batteries; perhaps kind that are used to power the Navy's SDV? wouldn't mind the motor either but that might be classified.
3 - solar cells /panels - I can probably buy the cells and make my own panels but want to explore/analyze/inspect all of todays modern technology

again; has anyone done this?
thanx......intjonn

Click to expand...

If you were smart enough to actually do this you wouldn't have to ask folks on a boating forum.

Smart folks have determined that with today's technology, it's impractcal. That's why you can't walk into a dealership and buy one.

If you're so dead set against "fossil fuel", consider a sailboat.

rwidman said:

If you're so dead set against "fossil fuel", consider a sailboat.

Click to expand...

There's the right answer.

Marin said:

There's the right answer.

Click to expand...

Marin- at 4 words, I do believe that is the shortest answer I've ever read from you!

Here ya go electric and all. Not a long range cruiser and batteries are not included but probably some cheap fun.

Intjonn, I don't know what your experience is in Internet forums but you released the sharks in this one, which I haven't seen in a long while. There are folks here that are a wealth of knowledge and will spend the time to help a trawler buddy out. I see you only have two post. Play nice and get use to us.
Dave

Just had the pleasure of a guided tour of the RV Knorr at the Woods Hole Oceanographic Inst. Knorr was the vessel that did the initial discovery work on the Titanic with its submersibles. Anyway the point is, the vessel is diesel electric propulsion. But, you had better believe the size of those diesel engines!!! No batteries involved at all!! Power goes straight to the electric motors (sort of, for those more technically inclined!!) I think the idea of running a trawler with just solar and wind is just not practical. It may be feasible depending on a bunch of trade-offs, such as only using it on bright sunny windy days, never at night or in fog, and having no spare power for anything other than slow propulsion under fair conditions. But is this boating??? And I agree that the original poster is a real a=-hole!!

Look for the most efficient sailboat hull you can find, with the least resistance to moving thru the water. Remove the rig. Replace the diesel engine with an electric motor. Replace the ballast with batteries. Operate the boat and determine range.

After spending $$$$$$$$$ you will find the range limited to several miles.

This is why electric propulsion boats are sailboats, WITH SAILS, The electric motor is to get in and out of slips and harbors, the sails are what propels the boat most of the time. These boats also use sailing to recharge the batteries by recovering power from the dragging/spinning propeller.

Well this is more interesting than I first imagined. Not that I think it's practical as a trawler, but there is potential and I learned something:

Electric boat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://www.marygordon.org.uk/

And then I found this, a modern diesel electric design:
http://www.cmdboats.com/redwingHybrid40.htm?cart_id=15ad9bc180e4cd5bd1871f1db3860166

Intjonn: For electric trawler design tech and/or efforts to develop them, check-out the following. While living in Germany I visited the Dusseldorf Show several times. Greenline Boats offered a pure electric version or hybrid diesel/electric version of their so -called super-displacement trawler/cruiser. I didn't see the pure electric version offered lately, which may be an indicator of the market or feasibility of the design.

Then, designers looking toward multi-hulls as lighter, easier to push boats took on this project:
Island Pilot DSe Home Page
This idea proved to be difficult in controling the weight of the hull during its build, and the bridge deck height may have turned out a bit compromised over it original design. It claims 6 knots on pure electric for a given time, but still carries it Styer diesels to charge the system and for safety back-up, essentially a hybrid. Take a good look at the solar panel coverage on this boat. It will give you an idea of exactly how aggressive panel coverage will need to be.

Lagoon got together with some efforts to bring the highly touted, Florida-made "Electric Wheel" to their catamaran designs for rentals in the Caribbean. I don't know what happened to them. Some say they were all discontinued after less than a year, and swapped out for diesels again. I had some photos of the Electric Wheel installation and it was very nice for the application, but the success of those systems depend so much on a working combination of variables that, apparently, have not occurred yet.

At least one German Cat featuring solar power has completed a circumnavigation, and there's plenty of data on that design. I saw the machine in Dusseldorf, and then again in Miami Beach when it was on its journey. I might add that the solar panels that covered the entire surface of the deck and roof area were nothing super technical. They were panels you could easily buy today, and more efficient panels are available now.

Lastly, Torquedo has come to the market with a 90-100 HP Electric outboard that I've seen no test data on. This new unit will probably be one of the darlings at the Miami Boat Show in Feb., and working with companies to obtain a lightweight, durable battery storage system will surely be the next step in making this new product fly. A 100 HP electric will easily drive many of the full displacement type hulls on this forum, including my own Krogen Manatee that originally sported a 90 HP Volvo. The original Manatee had only a 50 HP Perkins Diesel that was sufficient to drive the boat to 6.5 to 7 knots. One of these Torquedos on the back of a 36 ft. full-displacement trawler would do what you want it to do, but it won't be cheap. I'm also considering this option for some time in the future.

Your reaction to the first poster was unfortunate. The wealth of information here is surely worth respect, patience, and a civil tongue. Any kind of boating would be hard to manage otherwise. Good luck

In the Big War, we operated a lot of fleet boat submarines on batteries. Sure, they had diesels to charge to batts too, but I think they must've been able to run more than just a couple of miles on electricity, though admittedly not very fast.

There was a small tug in a magazine I read a few moons ago, I can't seem to remember what the publication's name was, that ran on a similar system. If maybe you were someone I would break bread with I could possibly remember but I don't see that in the cards.

An electric boat I saw at Dinner Key Marina Miami the Vi Ve project
seems optimistic not much in the way of panels.
Steve W

ARoss said:

I think they must've been able to run more than just a couple of miles on electricity, though admittedly not very fast.

Click to expand...

All wars are big when you are in them.

The range of those boats submerged on battery power was just under 100 miles at about 2 knots. The later Guppy conversions had about the same range but at twice the speed.

A Guppy could go up to 16 knots for about a half hour on batteries.

At maximum submerged endurance we would run out of breathable air and battery about the same time.

As an example, Balao class (WWII) submarines were advertised with 48 hour submerged (battery power only) endurance at a hair over 2 kts. Battery charges were furnished by divvying up the 5600 hp or so from the diesels between propulsion and battery charging. As I recall, it took 208 tons of battery to make it all work.

The Redwing would be an ideal trawler for most skippers here. I only wish the trawler manufacturers of the 70s and 80s built most of the trawlers w a hull like this and a reasonable amount of power. I don't care much about the hybrid part of it but the boat itself is basically the perfect trawler. My opinion.

dhmeissner said:

Well this is more interesting than I first imagined. Not that I think it's practical as a trawler, but there is potential and I learned something:

Electric boat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Mary Gordon Trust

And then I found this, a modern diesel electric design:
Redwing Hybrid 40 - Power Cruiser/Trawler - Boat Plans - Boat Designs

Click to expand...

Dave thanks for posting this.
The Redwing would be an ideal trawler for most skippers here. I only wish the trawler manufacturers of the 70s and 80s built most of the trawlers w a hull like this and a reasonable amount of power. I don't care much about the hybrid part of it but the boat itself is basically the perfect trawler. My opinion.

Ok, well intjonn, the OP, might have got off on the wrong foot a bit back there, but he does raise an interesting subject. The usual snags with solar electric power and practicality have all been raised, but it is of interest there are several versions out therein production which are actually available to buy.. i went over the Greenline Trawler myself at the last Sanctuary Cove Boat Show, and was impressed with the quality, layout and technology behind it. Hoever, it is a solar-electric drive with diesel backup.See link below.
Greenline 33 (2010-) 2010  Reviews,performance,compare,price,warranty, specs,Reports,Specifications Layout, video | BoatTEST.com

On the other hand, there is a fully solar electric only powered vessel which has circumnavigated, but to be able to do that, it has to look like this....
planetsolar: the first solar-powered boat around the world

See, solar power DOES work! Catamaran completes round-the-world trip powered only by the sun (pity it took two years) | Mail Online

Which I think most on here would agree is not really practical - yet. However, what if down the track, someone invents a hugely more efficient, and large capacity type of electrical storage unit (ie battery), then what might be possible. The solar panels are also going to become more efficient and powerful over time as well. So we should not write it off, but I think the OP might be on a hiding to nothing for now, unless he just enjoys the challenge of trying, and does not much care how useful what he ends up with is. All the same I'll be interested to hear progress, intjonn, and good luck with that.

There is a manufacturer of small--- up to 22 feet--- electric-only launches called the Duffy Electric Boat Co. Duffy Electric Boat Company - The world's leading manufacturer of electric boats since 1970.. There is a company that rents them on Seattle's Lake Union.

The endurance time given for the 4,300 pound, 22' model is 3.5 hours at a top speed of 6 mph or 7.5 hours at cruising speed which so far as I could determine from their site is 4 mph.

So not exactly what I would call "coastal cruising in a diesel cruiser" endurance. I believe their boats are recharge-them-at-the-dock boats as opposed to having a method of recharging batteries while underway.

Don't plan any winter season trips to BC or Alaska.

Marin;]"There is a manufacturer of small--- up to 22 feet--- electric-only launches called the Duffy Electric Boat Co. Duffy Electric Boat Company - The world's leading manufacturer of electric boats since 1970.. There is a company that rents them Seattle's Lake Union."

There is a red one for sale on our marina, $35,000 ONO.

Peter

I saw the Greenline at the Sydney Boat Show, I agree it is a very interesting concept. Excellent weekender, great hot weather boating set up.

Have we lost Intjonn already?

Maybe we were wasting his time.....

Peter B said:

Maybe we were wasting his time.....

Click to expand...

Or he was wasting our time!