Single vs Twin: It's Baaaaack!

Chuck Gould said:

Correct about Grand Banks, at least mostly. Hard to know what you mean by "recently", .

Click to expand...

GB itself did not start using the term "trawler" or "trawler yacht" in its literature until the 1990s I believe. Not that others including brokers, magazines, etc. weren't calling them "trawlers" long before this.

The aft cabin Grand Banks has never been called a "motoryacht." It has always been called the "Classic" even in the woody days. The name "Motoryacht" is the model name for the full-width aft cabin model and it has been called that for decades. Other manufacturers call this style "sundeck."

There are only four model names for the Ken Smith-hulled Grand Banks boats: Classic (tri-cabin), Sedan, Europa, and Motoryacht. There have been occasional sub-names for specific versions of some of these models, particularly in the Sedan configuration.

come on guys, just let this go and move on to something new, you know you will feel better for it.

Marin said:

GB itself did not start using the term "trawler" or "trawler yacht" in its literature until the 1990s I believe. Not that others including brokers, magazines, etc. weren't calling them "trawlers" long before this.

The aft cabin Grand Banks has never been called a "motoryacht." It has always been called the "Classic" even in the woody days. The name "Motoryacht" is the model name for the full-width aft cabin model and it has been called that for decades. Other manufacturers call this style "sundeck."

There are only four model names for the Ken Smith-hulled Grand Banks boats: Classic (tri-cabin), Sedan, Europa, and Motoryacht. There have been occasional sub-names for specific versions of some of these models, particularly in the Sedan configuration.

Click to expand...

We are using two versions of the same term to describe a common boat.

I am using the term "aft cabin" in the same way it is commonly used in the brokerage industry; describing what you call a "sundeck" or "full width aft cabin" model. A boat with a cabin abaft the main cabin is often called a "tri-cabin", but we agree that Grand Banks called their boats with a "full width aft cabin" a Motor Yacht

Interesting. Don't know what brokerages you have experience with. But the GB brokers and GB people I have experience with all call the Classic an "aft cabin" boat. Or a "tri-cabin." They call the GB Motoryacht a "full width aft cabin" boat. Never heard the term "aft cabin" applied to the Motoryacht before.

Semantics, I guess, in the case of your example, or perhaps brokers not that familiar with GB's history and nomenclature.

Greetings,
What the hell do the SEMITES have to do with this?

Words, RTF. You're thinking of the bugs that eat semi-tractors.

RT Firefly said:

Greetings,
What the hell do the SEMITES have to do with this?

Click to expand...

We talken bout 666 again?!?! LOL

That numbers not due for another 59 posts...

Marin said:

Interesting. Don't know what brokerages you have experience with. But the GB brokers and GB people I have experience with all call the Classic an "aft cabin" boat. Or a "tri-cabin." They call the GB Motoryacht a "full width aft cabin" boat. Never heard the term "aft cabin" applied to the Motoryacht before.

Semantics, I guess, in the case of your example, or perhaps brokers not that familiar with GB's history and nomenclature.

Click to expand...

Semantics.

Here are another couple of examples of boats commonly called "aft cabins". Neither is a trawler, but certain generic terms (such as "sedan") are often applied specifically to trawlers- even if not used in a particular factory's official sales literature. What these two vessels share in common with the Motor Yacht series from GB is a master stateroom farthest aft, and a need to step up to the "sundeck" to cross from side to side at the stern.

SomeSailor said:

Are we there yet?

598

Click to expand...

Rumor was 500 is the absolute max. Like the oft predicted end of the world, nothing happened, now the max looks like infinity. Someone please turn off the life support system.
Oh no, I just fed the beast again. Roll on 666.

I'm going to lurk quietly and nab #999

Keep in mind that the more the posts, the more disk space needed on the server, and the more it costs to support this forum.

A charge by the post might help keep this thread from reaching infinity!

More hits = More disk space = more ad revenue.

Great Laker, it must be fun to have the fastest true Trawler (oops that is another thread) on the forum, a single at that!

Great Laker said:

Keep in mind that the more the posts, the more disk space needed on the server, and the more it costs to support this forum.

A charge by the post might help keep this thread from reaching infinity!

Click to expand...

Laker,
I agree but until your post I really didn't know but was quite sure it must be costly in some way.
I think quoting a big post (especially w pics) whereas your'e only referring to a few sentences should be AVOIDED. With the copy and paste feature one can surgically choose only what is needed to copy and paste and seeing the same big picture over and over is wasteful too. I don't know much about computers but I do know how to copy and paste so PM me as needed.

But I disagree w you that any thread should be a certain length. Posting meaningless posts just to make the number go up is silly and wasteful though. But one must recall that having fun is a serious goal too. I think we do need to stop being wasteful though.

manyboats said:

I think quoting a big post (especially w pics) whereas your'e only referring to a few sentences should be AVOIDED.

Click to expand...

Man, I sure agree with that one! Nothing looks more ridiculous than seeing a huge post with a thousand lines of text or a series of photos that have little if anything to do with the subject other than a "me too me too' value quoted in its entirety only to be followed by a single line ...

RickB said:

Man, I sure agree with that one! Nothing looks more ridiculous than seeing a huge post with a thousand lines of text or a series of photos that have little if anything to do with the subject other than a "me too me too' value quoted in its entirety only to be followed by a single line ...

Click to expand...

Me too...

aw come on you guys spot kidding around this is a serious issue that needs anserwed before i buy a new boat. Geez.....If you asked the question I would not take it frivously.............

all kidding aside there as been lots of good info already contributed which i have learned much from but i NEED MORE...........actually naught....I have decided on the boat which is a single, but haveing owning many many boats in my life each new purchase still scares the you know what outa me.

I wish to thank you all for your help

Britt

bfloyd4445 said:

three engines...wonder if there are any.

Click to expand...

RickB said:

Lots of 3 engine boats around.

Click to expand...

I know I'm late to the party, but there is a boat in our marine that has 2 gas I/Os and one diesel inboard. Yes it is home made. It was an old Chris Craft hull, that had an interior fire. He gutted it and built his own cabin. Why did he install the diesel? As he tells it, a friend dropped it off at his house one night while he was building it, and figured, "why not?".

The water is really clear during this time of year. I'll have to go take a picture this week.

Greetings,
Mr. 45. Ahhh..... NOW you're getting it. Calm down, relax and get a good survey. The single vs twin question WILL go on ad nauseum and I intend to take part in all subsequent pointless discussions. There is NO RIGHT ANSWER!!!!!!! You don't need more.
The MAIN thing is, disregarding the # of engines, extra costs, internet opinions, ER space, galley up, galley down, queens size berths, anchors, electronics, spitballs or farts.....Do YOU like the boat and do YOU think the boat will do what you want it to do. PERIOD!!!!! Discussion closed...Good grief!

manyboats said:

I think we do need to stop being wasteful though.

Click to expand...

You're using the same amount of bandwidth to read a post as you do creating one. It's great for ad revenue though.

RT Firefly said:

Greetings,
Mr. 45. Ahhh..... NOW you're getting it. Calm down, relax and get a good survey. The single vs twin question WILL go on ad nauseum and I intend to take part in all subsequent pointless discussions. There is NO RIGHT ANSWER!!!!!!! You don't need more.
The MAIN thing is, disregarding the # of engines, extra costs, internet opinions, ER space, galley up, galley down, queens size berths, anchors, electronics, spitballs or farts.....Do YOU like the boat and do YOU think the boat will do what you want it to do. PERIOD!!!!! Discussion closed...Good grief!

Click to expand...

....thanks, and your right, but the fact is i have had lots of boats becuse i have yet to find one that will do everything i want a boat to do.
I'm looking forward to just putting around watching the sun come up and then set over and over as i travel from point A to point B in a vessel that takes three days to do what i am used to doing in one or less.

A good survey, how can i be sure the guy i find can do a good survey? That is a bit scary.

RickB said:

Man, I sure agree with that one! Nothing looks more ridiculous than seeing a huge post with a thousand lines of text or a series of photos that have little if anything to do with the subject other than a "me too me too' value quoted in its entirety only to be followed by a single line ...

Click to expand...

i8s that sorta like the guy with the giant engine avatar that dosent talk about engines?

SomeSailor said:

#10: Theft of Equipment

Some jealous single owner stole an engine from a twin driver.

#9 Claim: Theft of Boat (with chances of boat being stolen box.)

Someone wanted a twin so bad they couldn't help themselves

#8: Lightning

Act of God. Singles aren't worthy.

#7: Grounding

Like beached whales. Single owners had no other choice than to cast their vessels on the beach.

# 6: Collisions

Obvious lack of maneuverability on the part of a single owner whose bow thruster over-heated. This wouldn't have happened in a twin.

#5: Wind and Weather

Single owners out there in weather beyond the capability of a single and with no redundancy.

#4: Fire and Explosion

Sabotage. Single owner suspected of getting tired of hearing how cool twins are.

# 3: Sinking

Forced to operate their singles well beyond failure, catastrophic casualty resulting in loss of vessel.

# 2 Claim: Striking Submerged Objects

Overconfident in their ability to dodge dead heads and skip over submerged objects with their well-guarded keels and props.

# 1 Claim: Hurricane Damage

A twin would weather the storm at sea or at anchorage. The single lost at the dock.

Click to expand...

Best post of the day!

bfloyd4445 said:

....thanks, and your right, but the fact is i have had lots of boats becuse i have yet to find one that will do everything i want a boat to do.
I'm looking forward to just putting around watching the sun come up and then set over and over as i travel from point A to point B in a vessel that takes three days to do what i am used to doing in one or less.

A good survey, how can i be sure the guy i find can do a good survey? That is a bit scary.

Click to expand...

- Check with BBB, most "good" surveyors are listed.
- Check their length of time in business... less than 7 yrs and I recommend not experienced enough.
- Ask the surveyor for minimum of 3 references that have employed him/her within last couple years and connect with at least two of them to get their report on work performed.
- Ask surveyor for list of their documentation / licenses / experiences regarding marine background.
- Make sure surveyor will be pleased to have you at survey and then ask as many questions as you feel pertinent... they work for you! If surveyor would rather be alone... move on to another!
- Keep clip board handy during survey and jots notes.
- Be sure to have two surveys – one for the boat itself and a marine mechanic to survey and certify all mechanical equipment.

Then if all works out and you purchase - GO PLAY!!

bfloyd4445 said:

i8s that sorta like the guy with the giant engine avatar that dosent talk about engines?

Click to expand...

New here are ya?

RickB said:

New here are ya?

Click to expand...

yep...I'm sorry, couldnt help the comment

Art said:

- Check with BBB, most "good" surveyors are listed.
- Check their length of time in business... less than 7 yrs and I recommend not experienced enough.
- Ask the surveyor for minimum of 3 references that have employed him/her within last couple years and connect with at least two of them to get their report on work performed.
- Ask surveyor for list of their documentation / licenses / experiences regarding marine background.
- Make sure surveyor will be pleased to have you at survey and then ask as many questions as you feel pertinent... they work for you! If surveyor would rather be alone... move on to another!
- Keep clip board handy during survey and jots notes.
- Be sure to have two surveys – one for the boat itself and a marine mechanic to survey and certify all mechanical equipment.

Then if all works out and you purchase - GO PLAY!!

Click to expand...

ahg, great, thank you sir. I never thought of two surveys i was under the impresion one was enough but i can certainly understand the need for a mechanical expert now that you pointed it out. Gonna copy your advice for reference while i search. Thanks

As a matter of fact the mechanical issues are of more concern to me as i am sure the rest of the boat is sound. Still gonna do both as I'm no expert

bfloyd4445 said:

A good survey, how can i be sure the guy i find can do a good survey? That is a bit scary.

Click to expand...

Short answer, you can`t. Even a good surveyor can/will miss something. The owner had lots of time to try to disguise defects. You are quite likely to find one or more issues you`d hope the surveyor would have found. I`d expect your past experience would tell you that, unless you are very lucky.

BruceK said:

Short answer, you can`t. Even a good surveyor can/will miss something. The owner had lots of time to try to disguise defects. You are quite likely to find one or more issues you`d hope the surveyor would have found. I`d expect your past experience would tell you that, unless you are very lucky.

Click to expand...

yep, thats for sure. I sold a boat once to a guy that after the deal was done he asked me if there were anythings about the boat that he should know. He said it was ok, he wouldnt hold anything against me but that it would make it much easier for him if i tell him the vesselspeculararities now so he can address the issues before taking to the water and finding them out. When he asked me this it kinda took me by surprise. There was nothing i could tell him and we are still friends to this day. Thatwas back in 1986, i sold him a bayliner........he ran the ....outa that boat untill it was junked in 2001

bfloyd4445 said:

.... i was under the impresion one was enough...

Click to expand...

There are surveyors who say they are experts at both hull and engine surveys. But I think it's wiser to have individuals who speciliaze in one or the other for a pre-purchase survey.

When we went to Alameda to check out the boat we ultimately bought we started about 6:00 am and did our own very thorough inspection and systems testing. Then we took the boat out onto the bay for a sea trial in the course of which we took the boat to a boatyard next to a Navy base.

The engine surveyor met us there and conducted his engine survey for a couple of hours. Then the hull surveyor showed up and did the first part of his survey with the boat in the water, then the boat was pulled out and blocked, and the hull surveyor did the second half of his survey.

The hull surveyor went home about 10:00 pm after which we discussed the pros and cons of buying the boat.

So if you can find a good hull surveyor familiar witht he make and model of the boat you're interested in and a good engine surveyor who's very familiar with the type of engine(s) in the boat, I think that's the best way to go even though it may cost more.

Now for our insurance surveys, we hire just one surveyor, a hull and systems specialist, and he does an abreviated survey aimed at satisfying the issues the insurance companies are interested in. If in the course of the survey he sees other things he thinks we should address he writes them down for us but he does not put them on his official survey form.

Marin said:

Now for our insurance surveys, we hire just one surveyor, a hull and systems specialist, and he does an abreviated survey aimed at satisfying the issues the insurance companies are interested in. If in the course of the survey he sees other things he thinks we should address he writes them down for us know but he does not put them on his official survey form.

Click to expand...

That's good info for boat owners to to keep in mind!