Single vs Twin: It's Baaaaack!

#391

What's the cap on these arguments?

Rambler said:

#391

What's the cap on these arguments?

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At Post 500 deadheads around the world will automatically be launched to rip the struts off every twin engine boat on the planet and sink it, thus ending the "which one to buy" argument forever.

Rambler said:

#391

What's the cap on these arguments?

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Do you object to fascinating insights?

If you read that many posts and still find time to comment about the number or content then what's the problem?

No one is forced to read this stuff you know ...

Chuck Gould said:

Heck, I know of a guy who motored right past a number of suitable boatyards with a 9 square foot hole in his hull!
.

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WIth a 3'X3' hole how did he get to a boatyard? THose are really big struts! Costa Concordia maybe.

sunchaser said:

WIth a 3'X3' hole how did he get to a boatyard? THose are really big struts! Costa Concordia maybe.

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The Costa Concordia was equipped with two azimuthing pods (21,000 kW each).

markpierce said:

Don't blame me. I didn't start this thread even though mine is post #!. A moderator pulled it from another thread.

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No blame from me. I think you should be thanked. I think this exercise is fun and possibly informative. Because of this thread, I now know that if I buy a boat with a wing engine, I need to make sure that it is properly sized for the vessel and not just assume that because it's there that it's good to go.

And let's not forget that we all learned from this thread that vessels with twins are likely to sink if they hit a log, and were talking gaping holes in the hull.

So Mark, you may have saved lives.

RickB said:

From where does this "power" originate?

An engine doesn't push power out, the load pulls it out.

If there is X amount of load at Y rpm then that is all the engine delivers.

There may be more available but unless the consumer demands it, it isn't produced or delivered and a sudden excess in capacity is not transfered to the other consumer if it doesn't demand it.

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Depends how quickly the fuel control reduces the fuel flow following the initial chain/shaft failure.

BaltimoreLurker said:

Single for me. But I could be talked into twins.

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In case one has a headache?

mahal said:

In case one has a headache?

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eeehaw.....toonie time

Its raining/snowing with temps in the 30's- small craft advisories everywhere today in Western Washington.

400 posts!-------We gotta have something to do in the winter!!!!!!! Go Trawler Brats!

Maurin wrote: your assumptions and speculation about them is as meaningless as your apparent belief that it's just a matter of time before a twin engine boat hits a deadhead, rips out a strut and sinks. End quote.

Oh, my.

When I posted that there was probably a 5% greater risk of damage (that's the one out of 20) you responded with some charge that I had claimed owning a twin screw boat put a person in "dire peril".

Based upon your crystal balls (you must have two, you prefer twins) you then repeatedly charge that I am a fearful person.

Today, your misunderstanding has expanded to the point where you now claim I said I believe it's "just a matter of time before a twin engine boat hits a deadhead, rips out a strut and sinks."

How very unusual. Do you normally discuss and debate topics using wholesale distortions of other peoples' positions?

Larry H said:

Its raining/snowing with temps in the 30's- small craft advisories everywhere today in Western Washington.

400 posts!-------We gotta have something to do in the winter!!!!!!! Go Trawler Brats!

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yep, the single engine guys likely have all their maintenence caught up but the twin guys haveing twice as much to do in very cramped engine holes should have plenty to do without the forums<smile> to occupy there time

Chuck Gould said:

Maurin wrote: your assumptions and speculation about them is as meaningless as your apparent belief that it's just a matter of time before a twin engine boat hits a deadhead, rips out a strut and sinks. End quote.

Oh, my.

When I posted that there was probably a 5% greater risk of damage (that's the one out of 20) you responded with some charge that I had claimed owning a twin screw boat put a person in "dire peril".

Based upon your crystal balls (you must have two, you prefer twins) you then repeatedly charge that I am a fearful person.

Today, your misunderstanding has expanded to the point where you now claim I said I believe it's "just a matter of time before a twin engine boat hits a deadhead, rips out a strut and sinks."

How very unusual. Do you normally discuss and debate topics using wholesale distortions of other peoples' positions?

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chuckle....., i also have had the pleasure of his distortions.........no, illusions, reaped upon my posts.

I keep having to scroll up to the top to see if I've accidentally logged into the Cruiser's Forum...

MurrayM said:

I don't know about you, but I prefer to keep my dangling-down bits well protected while going over logs or sharp nasty rocks.

Maybe there's a parallel here with my "Big Truck / little penis" theory. Are the twin folks overcompensating as well?

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No comments? No witty comebacks? Denial? Interesting...

Just what I thought; those 'twin boys' are just adding a bit more muscle, a bit more thrust down there to make themselves feel more manly.

May I have the honor of post 406 ?. It was supposed to be post 401 and look what happened.

Posts are coming so hot and heavy no intelligent conversation is possible.

Lets vote.

Twins for me but I can't afford them so I'l keep on slog'in along w my single.

Chuck Gould said:

'Twas said: "So if you realistically compare twins w the same disp and power (no other way is valid) I think personally that twins will come out ahead. I know most disagree w me but that what I think and why I think it. It all hinges on the question of "is the drag of the prop walk greater than the drag of the struts."

Doesn't your theory presuppose that a pair of 125-HP diesels will produce the same effective thrust per gallon as a 250-HP single? As every engine suffers from some inefficiencies in converting potential BTU's injected as fuel into thrust, why would each engine in a pair of "twins" be only half as inefficient as an engine used in a single application?

Having seen a few twin screws sent to the bottom when a strut is ripped off to leave a 3 or 4 sq ft hole in the hull, I'm personally a fan of single engines. Getting back to port after an engine shut down is academic if hitting a deadhead tears away your running gear and opens your bottom like a can opener.

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Mr. Gould, Read the last Paragraph of your above post and you might understand why some of us think you are off base, way off base. A 4 square foot hole? And personally witnessing a few of these happen? Any of them trawler types (slow moving with thick hulls)? Did you rescue those poor twinners?

manyboats said:

Posts are coming so hot and heavy no intelligent conversation is possible.

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I recall you saying in a recent post that people should do less lurking and more posting. (Well, there you have it!))

Greetings,
Mr. SH. You're becoming almost as proficient as Mr. Lurker with that shovel. Gotta love it...

manyboats said:

May I have the honor of post 406 ?. It was supposed to be post 401 and look what happened.

Posts are coming so hot and heavy no intelligent conversation is possible.

Lets vote.

Twins for me but I can't afford them so I'l keep on slog'in along w my single.

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intelligent??..i don't recall that as a requirment

I like em both but can't find them in the same vessel and can't aford two more boats so i gotta decide is it gonna be a single or twins?? Wonder if modern science has developed a test for that yet?

Hly Sht!! I can’t believe I missed posting here for so long as I read along following everyone’s reasoning, BS or otherwise!

So, now, having decades on the water and owned/enjoyed both single and twin screw boats - I’ll place my position pure and simple:

On many counts; Twins - - > Wins... IMHO

Oh yeah – and, I like planing hulls too! Heck - that’s a whole other thread. LOL

I fold.

Chuck Gould said:

Maurin wrote: your assumptions and speculation about them is as meaningless as your apparent belief that it's just a matter of time before a twin engine boat hits a deadhead, rips out a strut and sinks. End quote.

Oh, my.

When I posted that there was probably a 5% greater risk of damage (that's the one out of 20) you responded with some charge that I had claimed owning a twin screw boat put a person in "dire peril".

Based upon your crystal balls (you must have two, you prefer twins) you then repeatedly charge that I am a fearful person.

Today, your misunderstanding has expanded to the point where you now claim I said I believe it's "just a matter of time before a twin engine boat hits a deadhead, rips out a strut and sinks."

How very unusual. Do you normally discuss and debate topics using wholesale distortions of other peoples' positions?

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No worse than the distortion of how many vessels sink from hitting something.

Chuck Gould said:

How very unusual. Do you normally discuss and debate topics using wholesale distortions of other peoples' positions?

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Only when it's entertaining (for me) and the other person is determined to defend a position that was silly in the first place. (Sorry Eric, I know you don't like the term silly but I do.)

Back up your claim with numbers. Show us insurance data that shows that twins fall victim to deadheads and sink enough times to make them concerned about it. How about the USCG? They keep records--- they're the government for God's sake. Records is their life. What do they have to say about the danger of twin engine boats having huge holes ripped in them by deadheads tearing off their struts and sinking? How 'bout boatyard and salvage company stats? What do those guys say?

And let's not forget the twin engine boat manufacturers themselves, those evil conniving bastards. What do they have to say about it? Give Tony Fleming a call and ask him how vulnerable his boats are to being sunk by having a strut ripped off by a log or some other piece of debris. Ask him how many times it's happened to his boats. You can't call Tollycraft anymore but I believe there is a pretty substantial owners group. Check with them to see how many Tollys have fallen victim to your scenario.

Same thing with Bayliner/Meridian. There are a bazillion of them in this area alone and most of their cruisers are twin engine. If your statistical claim of a 5 percent chance of hitting a log, having it rip off a strut, and having the boat sink is correct that means if we assume there are 5,000 twin engine Bayliner cruisers in this whole area, some 250 of them have hit logs, had a strut ripped off, and sunk.

I suck at math and statistical analysis so I will readily admit that my numbers and reasoning may be total crap, but you get the idea. There are a hell of a lot of Bayliners here and even if the chances of this log-strut-sink scenario happening are small, there should be an impressive number of sunk Bayliners as a result. Is there? (I don't know.)

Note that I am not saying "damaged" here. You brought up the whole risk of "sinking" thing and Jamal rightly called you on it. So give us some reason to give your claim that this is an important reason boat buyers should steer clear of twin engine boats some credibility.

Your anecdotal evidence that "I've seen a couple of boats this happened to" is no more proof of your position than my saying "I know of single engine boats who were sunk by deadheads" is any sort of proof of my position.

Again, read Edelwisses' post. Read Sunchaser's post. Read Art's post. Go look round the yards in Puget Sound and report back how many twin engine boats are in them after being salvaged from being sunk by a deadhead ripping off a strut and leaving a massive hole.

These days boats that sink in Puget Sound and BC tend to be raised if it's at all possible because of the environmental regulations. They end up being hauled to a nearby yard for an investigation before being sent to the landfills. So check out the yards and let us know how many of these strutless, torn up hulks you find.

I wonder how folks would feel about TRIPLES?

SomeSailor said:

I wonder how folks would feel about TRIPLES?

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Check back around post 200 or so....maybe 300...I thought trips were discussed back there...who knows...

I've been laughing so hard in this thread... kinda reminds me of teaching the aids to navigation section in a captains licensing course...some of the students started crying by the time light characteristics were covered. They thought they were experienced, knowledgeable boaters....

I've made 2 full circumnavigations and literally years (7 years, 6 months, 3 days) of cruising on ships with 4 screws. I don't remember ever being towed.

SomeSailor said:

I've made 2 full circumnavigations and literally years (7 years, 6 months, 3 days) of cruising on ships with 4 screws. I don't remember ever being towed.

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The more relevant question here, however, is how many times did you sink because you had a strut ripped out of the hull by a deadhead?

Marin said:

The more relevant question here, however, is how many times did you sink because you had a strut ripped out of the hull by a deadhead?

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C'mon, Marin, you made your point long ago! IMHO twins win! Even a rat will fight if he's cornered! Leave the guy an honorable way out! Besides, you have more ammunition than he does.

Fair enough. Thanks, Walt. Great to have you back even though it means I'll have to crank my thesaurus app up to the next level. I've been getting lazy in your absence.