Teak decks

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Blue Heron

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Okay. I started to remove the failed caulk in between the teak planks. I noticed that it appears to be a teak bottom in the seam? I thought I would see fiberglass instead. The seam came up okay. So now the question is : if its teak on the bottom of the channel should I still use the 3m tape on the bottom before caulking?
 

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The way to clean/ream out the old caulking is to use a regular sqare screw drive the the edges sharp. I use a hook carpet knife to cut down the seam and the groove calking in the seam down to the fiberglass. when down to bear wook to clean the acatone.

Be sure to a small area at a time so you can reach across as the caulking is messey. Paint thinner cleans up well before the calking dries.
 
Also not all of the seams need recaulking. Is it okay to cut away bad seams and Recaulk half the length?

I'm planning on removing old caulk
Sanding grooves/seams
Recaulking
Sanding entire deck
Applying CeTOL

Thoughts? Tips?
 
Thanks Phil



acetone to clean the grooves as part of prep. Yep I'm using a hooked blade and a screw driver.

Did you sand at all before caulk?
 
The deck planks each have a groove milled down one edge. They are laid with the grooved edge butted up against the un grooved edge of the adjacent plank. When the planks are butted together side by side, this groove forms the seam that needs to be sealed. That's why you are seeing wood at the bottom of the groove, not the upper surface of your subdeck.

Assuming a properly constructed teak deck, if you see fiberglass at the bottom of a deck groove you've got a major problem.

Decks wear out when the planks get too thin to allow a proper depth groove. The grooves can be recut deeper as the planks wear-- we had this done several years ago--- but eventually there will not be enough plank thickness to do this anymore and the teak decking will have to be replaced or removed.

This is why everything should be done to preserve the plank thickness. No sanding, no teak "cleaners," no powerwashing, no scrubbing with the grain except where deck hardware makes it impossible to go across the grain..
 
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Marin,

Thanks for the reply. It makes sense. I don't see any Fiberglas.

Question is should I sand the groove before applying caulk?

As for not sanding the deck, it is on the Sundeck and has a cost of CeTOL on it already. Should I just re-apply without sanding?
 
How deep is the existing groove? Yes, you should sand before applying caulk. And, yes, use tape in the bottom of the groove. You only want the caulk to adhere to the sides of the groove, not the bottom. That will allow for expansion and contraction.
 
Are you sold on applying Cetol to the decks? The PO had done the same to our boat, and the deck is somewhat slippery when wet. We're letting the Cetol run its course (which is taking longer than we hoped - the darn stuff is good at what it does!), and we'll allow the teak to grey naturally. Periodic maintenance will include filling the holes, cracks and voids that appear in the seams. Easiest way to do that is to buy liquid black polysulfide and equestrian syringes (they have "fatter" needles and will not gum up as fast as regular sized syringes). Fill the syringe partway and place the needle into the void. Squeeze until it "bubbles" up and fills the void, allowing for a bit of shrinkage.
 
Thanks G I will sand the grooves and clean with acetone before caulking

Moon,
CeTOL does a great job. We have the rails done on CeTOL already so it will flow. Great tip on the maintenance of the seams!
 
I am noticing the Caulk is all the way to the bottom on a few of the seams. No tape.

I'm only doing the seams that have failed. The others I will fix as they fail.
 
If you have the time, go to the Grand Banks owners forum and search for teak deck repair. You'll find many threads from true experts and boatwrights. There is a method for caulk repair where you cut at a diagonal from one edge of the seam to the bottom of the seam on the opposite side. Do that on both sides of the groove. What you'll have is a shallow triangle of caulk remaining. From there you can re-caulk. Use tape on both sides to facilitate cleanup. I use TDS products only (no affiliation).
 
Thanks.


I am prepping and de caulking it. Can't finish in a day. Is it ok to leave it uncaulked under the canapy and eisenglass ?

Want to de caulk and sand and prep in one step
 
...as long as it stays dry. "Dry" is the key when re-caulking.
 
I chased the issue of applying finishes to teak decking. Pretty sure is was TDS who said it was not recommended. I assume there are solvents etc which may affect the caulk.
I thought it may be ok if you totally avoid the caulking, but that could be difficult, especially as the plank edges abut the caulk margin which you want to adhere to the teak.
 
This is where the Fein Multimaster or some of its various knockoffs really can pay for itself. There are little hook like attachments of various widths specifically designed for this task that make getting the old caulk cleanly out a snap, eliminate a lot of sanding and preserve more wood. Sanding or deepening the grooves if necessary are also very easy with one of these tools.

I strongly agree with those advocating unfinished decks, but you will have a lot more sanding to do to get all the Cetol off, probably better to light sand and reapply Cetol again. Also agree with the Teak Decking Systems advocates; cures faster and sands easier.
 
OK, I'm gonna step in it again.

I still find those old weathered Grey Teak decks to be an eyesore - I really like the the look of a light brown nature wood Teak.

I read about this TeakGuard stuff on a couple of other sites and it had great reviews. It's water-based. Admittedly, they all say that it does not typically last much more than a year, if exposed, without re coating, but also claim that is an advantage if you want it to just return to natural grey.

MyBoatStore.com: Search by Product Name, TeakGuard Products

I know the recommendation here is just leave it natural, but has anyone tried TeakGuard on decks who is willing to comment?

Thanks.
 
Teak decks: what a pain. Glad you folks talked me out of them in 2010 when purchasing my boat (originally ordered with teak decks). I don't mind gray decks. That's what I have, but that's non-skid paint.

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Natural teak decks are UGLY.

I would sand the deck before recaulking as sanding will probable damage the calking. A bet sander will not damage the calking as much. For 15+ ye:eek:ars I have applied Daily's Sea Fin which is thin sealer that dies hard. Every year after maintaining/repairing the calking, I wet sand the deck and apply a a new coat. The deck look like its been varnish.

The stern deck which is enclosed is varnish with hard gym varnish. There is zero wood/teak that is bear. Its not a lot of time if kept up, but you should enjoy doing the maintenance.
 
Anyone who tells you to sand a teak deck (except in extreme and dire circumstances) has no clue about how to properly care for and extend the longevity of a teak deck.

Anyone who tells you to use teak "cleaners" or " restorers" on a teak deck has no clue how to properly care for and extend the life of a teak deck.

Anyone who tells you to use a power washer on a teak deck has no clue how to properly care for and extend the life of a teak deck.

The only person who has to live with the consequences of mistreating a teak deck is the owner. So it's of no consequences to me or anyone else what an owner chooses to do. But if one takes the advice to sand, use Cetol, use teak cleaners (which do the same thing as sandpaper but chemically rather thn mechanically), use oil, power wash, don't use bond-breaking tape, etc., I will guarantee you that they are shortening the life of the deck.

For the last fourteen years we have been living with an original teak deck that is now 40 years old. Previous owners over-sanded it to the point where the bottoms of many of the grooves were almost even with tops of the planks when we bought the bot, scrubbed the deck with the grain, let separated seams go un-repaired, and not replaced missing deck plugs. We talked to shipwrights and the experts at Teak Decking Systems (TDS). We talked to a retired Grand Banks deck installer. And we read every book on the subject we could find.

And we brought our deck back, not to excellent condition because wood that goes away will never come back, but to very acceptable and serviceable condition. This was about 12 years ago and we've learned to keep it that way because it can never be regrooved or sanded again. And the cost of a new teak main deck for a GB36 is today more than $30,000 installed. We know, we've priced it.

We may not know much about a lot of things having to do with boats but taking care of and maximizing the life of a teak deck is one thing we have learned and now know a hell of a lot about.

We put the effort in learning to repair and maintain a teak deck because we both feel it is the best deck surface available and we both hate fiberglass "nonskid" decks. So it's in our interest to get as many years as we can out of the deck we have now.

PS. If you buy a boat with a teak deck from a previous owner who was dumb enough to put Cetol on it, DO NOT sand it off. You will remove too much irreplaceable wood in the process. The best thing to do is let it weather off. It will look absolutely hideous as it does this and it will take a long time, months, even the better part of a year depending on the climate. But it will eventually begin to fail, lift, peel off and weather out of the grain. You still may need to give the deck a LIGHT sanding once the bulk of the Cetol is gone but the objective is to keep this to an absolute minimum.
 
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The frequent method of creating a teak overlay for a TT was to use wide planks , and simply route groves in the plank.

The plugs would be shop installed , and then the plank would be fitted to the boat.

Only a few screws would hold the plank down and only the plank seam needs calking.

MY start in outfitting was to work for the boat importers and find the few screws that went into wiring .

Great fun!
 
Marin,

Great advice. Thanks. After discussing with the wife we are going to repair the seams and just let the CeTOL wear off We are gonna let it age gracefully. The deck is in great shape.

How do you maintain a grey deck? Salt water scrub against the grain?
 
Marin,

Great advice. Thanks. After discussing with the wife we are going to repair the seams and just let the CeTOL wear off We are gonna let it age gracefully. The deck is in great shape.

How do you maintain a grey deck? Salt water scrub against the grain?

You have a pretty boat and you are going to have ugly grey decks? :eek: You might want to think twice especially if it’s the stern deck that is protected. :confused:

I agree if you are going to let if go UGLY grey then there is not reason to clean/power/wash/sand. You do not want to due very often. When you clean/power wash/sand, the reason is to bring out the beauty of the wood and to apply some coating/protection. In 15 years I have only initially power washed/sand the decks once. The yearly wet sand scrubbing is to get the dirt off and prepare decks for another coating. :thumb:

I would much rather tear up the teak deck than let it go grey. Yuck! :eek: :D
 
Marin,

Great advice. Thanks. After discussing with the wife we are going to repair the seams and just let the CeTOL wear off We are gonna let it age gracefully. The deck is in great shape.

How do you maintain a grey deck? Salt water scrub against the grain?

You don't want to "scrub" the decks in any direction unless absolutely necessary. Scrubbing will wear away the soft teak fibers.
We use a saltwater washdown and that does a good job of keeping the decks clean. If we have to do anything else we gently brush the area with a soft brush or a broom.
 
Marin,

Great advice. Thanks. After discussing with the wife we are going to repair the seams and just let the CeTOL wear off We are gonna let it age gracefully. The deck is in great shape.

How do you maintain a grey deck? Salt water scrub against the grain?

First of all, it's not gray, it's silver.:) I have never found the color ugly at all. In fact when I see a brown teak deck on anything but a new or covered boat, I think, "There is a teak deck that's going to have a shorter life than it should have" So to me, brown is an ugly color for a teak deck (other than the two exceptions I mentioned above) because I know what's happening to the teak and it ain't pretty.

Caring for a teak deck is actually no more difficult or time consuming than caring for a fiberglass deck. You simply need to keep it clean. The best way to do this is to wash it periodically--- the period being determined by how dirty your marina is--- with salt water and something like Lemon Joy. Lemon Joy is often recommended because it suds up very nicely in cold water.

We use a basic string mop on our our deck. This is gentle on the wood and does a great job of getting the surface dirt up.

Our marina is not the cleanest in the world because it holds a lot of boats, 2000-plus including a fairly active commercial fishing fleet. Also there is a small railyard next to the marina with one to three switch engines idling or operating every day, plus frequent--- every hour or so-- freight trains running past the marina on their way to or from the Vancouver, BC area. All of this stuff is putting soot into the air.

Boats do not turn black in a week or anything like that, but it doesn't take too long before a boat no longer passes the white glove test. Walking on the deck works this dirt down in the upper grain and the basic mopping may not get it out.

So a few times a year--- two or three at the most--- we "scrub" the deck using a "doodlebug" as it's called here, one of those woven fiber pads. This is when it's important to clean across the grain instead of with it except where deck hardware makes it impossible.

As we learned early on from teak experts, the reason is this:

Teak, perhaps like all woods, is composed of linear "runs" of soft and hard wood cells. The soft wood cells are quite soft and so are removed from the surface of the plank easier and faster than the runs of hard wood cells. Scrubbing with the grain with anything at all abrasive, even the doodle bug, will over time wear away the softer cells faster than the harder cells. The result will be a microscopic "valley" as the soft runs are worn away faster than the harder "ridges."

At first, this will be totally unnoticeable. But once this wear starts, it accelerates. Even the weather, if the boat is outside, will start wearing away softer cells. It will happen anyway over a lot of time, but you helping simply accelerates the wear.

Eventually this will result in visible grooves, or crevicing as the teak people call it. And this will get deeper and deeper with time. I'm sure you've probably seen this in older or weathered teak. We have some fairly severe crevicing in the teak platform of our bow pulpit and in a few of the boards on our port side deck. The only way to get rid of it is to sand the surrounding wood down and this is worse in the long run than living with and trying to minimize the continuation of the crevicing.

So, the less you can encourage the softer wood cells to go away the better shape your deck will stay in over time. That is why you should never scrub the deck with the grain, always across except in those places where structure makes this impossible, and the scrubbing you do should be very light pressure. You just want to remove that stubborn dirt, not any wood cells.

With a string mop or soft sponge, the direction is not so important as there is little to no real abrasion with these things.

But now perhaps you can understand why powerwashing, even at a low-pressure setting is ultimately devastating to a teak deck because even at low pressure it will start "blasting" those soft wood cells loose.

Pressure washing is also potentially damaging to the seam sealant adhesion to the side of the grooves. Seam sealant separating from one side of a groove or the other is how moisture gets down under the planks. All seams will do this eventually at which point the seam, or the entire deck if it's gotten really bad, will have to be re-seamed. But the easier you make life on the seams the longer the sealant will stay adhered to both sides of the groove, which is also why using bond-breaking tape in the bottom of the groove is essential to maintaining the adhesion of the seam sealant to the sides of the groove as long as possible.

I don't know if they use bond-breaking tape on the glued down decks manufacturers like Grand Banks, Fleming, etc. install today. A glued-down deck is much less flexible than a screwed down deck although the wood will still expand and contract with heat and humidity. But a screwed down deck, even though the planks were bedded in a fairly adhesive compound when they were laid, is actually quite "active" according to the experts we've talked to over the years. The planks can actually "squirm" a fair amount as the boat works, you walk on it, and heat and humidity act on the wood itself. So on a screwed-down deck, bond-breaking tape is pretty critical.

BTW, the reason you should use salt water when you wash your deck has nothing to do with teak liking salt water or anything like that. Salt water should be used because if there are any separated seam sides or missing deck plugs or less-than-perfectly bedded deck hardware, moisture will get down under the planks. And with a screwed down deck, with eighty-bazillion screws penetrating the fiberglass upper layer of the typical cruiser's fiberglass-plywood-fiberglass subdeck sandwich, this moisture can migrate down along a deck screw into the wood core. If it's salt water that's migrating down, this will hold rot at bay a lot longer than if it's fresh water.

So keep the deck clean using a string mop or soft sponge, give it a little more rigorous scrubbing a few times a year using something like doodlebug (but still do it lightly) and maintain the integrity of the deck seams and plugs and there is no reason why a properly laid teak deck made of quality teak to start with should not last a long, long time. As I say, ours is now 40 years old. Had it not been improperly cared for in the past, it would probably last another 40 years.

And learn to love silver or keep the boat covered and out of the weather.

As an example, our main deck is exposed to the weather 24/7/365. And it is a nice silver color, as it should be. Our flying bridge deck, however, is kept under a full Sunbrella cover all the the time except when we remove the cover once or twice a year on longer cruises. We have washed the flying bridge deck two or three times in the past 14 years and we have scrubbed it once. I have redone a few seams up there that pulled loose from one side of the groove and replaced the occasional deck plug. Other than that it has not needed nor gotten any attention. And it is still brown. Light brown, more of a gray brown, but still "teak colored." That's what keeping a teak deck covered can do for you.

One last thing. I watched a Cetol-treated teak deck on an otherwise lovely GB36 Sedan weather away over the course of almost a year. The boat was for sale and the Cetol was starting to fail when it went on the market and it went unsold for over a year. This was in the early 2000s when the boat markets were booming. We walked beside this boat every time we went to our own boat and so got an up-close look at that deck every weekend.

Nobody would touch that boat with the Cetol on the deck unless the price was dropped enough to cover the professional removing of the Cetol which at that time the boat's broker told me would cost some $8,000 in labor. So the boat sat while buyer after buyer rejected the boat and bought some other GB.

And the Cetol got worse and worse and uglier and uglier until it was simply hideous. Finally, after most of the Cetol had weathered away, the boat sold. The owner still had to drop the price by the cost of removing the last of the Cetol, fixing seams, and truing up the deck surface but by then most of the Cetol itself was gone so the job was not nearly as big as it would have been when the boat first went on the market.

But my point is that if you elect to let as much of the Cetol on your deck weather away as you can, be prepared for things to get REALLY ugly appearance-wise. In the long run you will be way better off with the Cetol gone, but unless you elect to have it professionally removed-- or find out what the best, least wood-removing way to do it is and then do it yourself--- it will not be a pleasant visual experience for you.:)
 
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Thanks for taking the time to give a great detailed reason and how to for the decks. Appreciate it
 
Thanks for taking the time to give a great detailed reason and how to for the decks. Appreciate it

I hope your project goes well for you. I actually really enjoy working with wood although I am by no means a pro at it as in cabinet maker or anything. But my wife and I like finishing or refinishing wood. It's one reason we bought this generation of GB that has a rainforest of external teak on it. And I like taking care of and maintaining the deck, now that we know how to do it properly and why.

What's particularly fun is to work on the wood when we're out. I'm not much for sitting around doing nothing or reading or whatever on a boat, although I don't fault the people who can do that. And since I work full time and am away some of that time, we take advantage of whatever time we have to work on the exterior wood. I long ago learned that it's quite pleasant to be in a nice anchorage or marine park or whatever on a nice day and do things like work on the teak trim or replace deck plugs or whatever. It's quiet, it's relaxing, and the surroundings are terrific.
 
Marin,

I too appreciate all your effort to educate on the care and maintenance of teak decks. I too am a lover of fine wood and that was a prime motivator to buy an older "teaked" boat, over a much simpler to maintain tuperware. I have a very long road to travel to attempt to recover my long abused / neglected decks.(if at all possible)
The Bow, Transom entry and aft Bridge deck are in especially bad shape. Fortunately, I moved and keep her under cover from the time of purchase over 2 years ago.

While we are on the subject of teak, would you please share with us briefly what you use, if anything, on the rest of your rainforest of teak, especially railings and window frames.

Thank you.
 
Fortunately, I moved and keep her under cover from the time of purchase over 2 years ago.

While we are on the subject of teak, would you please share with us briefly what you use, if anything, on the rest of your rainforest of teak, especially railings and window frames.


Keeping your boat under cover will be a wonderful thing for maintaining the condition of your teak, or preventing it from deteriorating any further until you can get to it. It's why we keep our exterior teak covers on the boat since we still have a lot of wood that needs refinishing.

We tried various varnishes on our brightwork but when my wife read about a then-new product called Bristol we decided to give it try. That was some 12 years ago and we still use it today.

The one thing we have done fairly recently on the advice of the top shipwright on the GB owners forum is to put several coats of CPES on raw teak trim prior to the application of Bristol and to apply the first coat of Bristol when the last coat of CPES is still tacky. This adheres the first coat of finish really well. This same technique works with any brightwork finish--- varnish, etc.--- except Cetol.

The CPES thing does zero good on top of existing finish. It's only a technique for wood that's been taken back to raw. We do not sand existing finish off because that always removes more wood than we want. So we always use a heat gun (my wife's specialty) and scrapers to remove the old finish be it varnish or Bristol. So the only sanding the wood gets is a very fine finish sanding to smooth the surface.

The window frames on a GB are not teak, they are mahogany (usually) and they are painted, not finished bright. So when we refinish a frame we remove it, take it home, strip it, finish sand it, and give it several coats of CPES to seal it.

We then take it back to the boat, install it using Dolfinite for the bedding, install new plugs over the frame screws, sand them fair, put several coats of CPES over the faired plug and surrounding wood, mask and prime the frame using Interlux Pre-Coat (primer), then mask and finish paint the frame using Interlux Brightside.

The last step is to run a narrow finger-faired bead of white Polyseamseal around the outside joint where the frame meets the cabin side. This prevents the edge of the Dolfinite bedding from drying out. Another technique from the GB owners forum.
 
Marin's 3000 word post settles it for me, I'm astro turfing the whole boat. Just hose it down when muddy, sweep it when dusty, and break out the blower when leafy.
 
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