Tandem anchors

psneeld · Jan 2, 2013

jeffnick said:
You make me smile.

We lived aboard for 3 years, probably spending less than a month total tied to a dock. We weren't world cruisers, but we did spend at least 6 months a year away from our home port. During our time aboard some things became apparent.

A cheap battery was good enough - we could always hand start the little diesel.

A better set of sails was was what we needed for the cruising we did.

But good and better weren't considered for ground tackle - it had to be the best and ready for the worst.

We started with the much touted, bulletproof, all chain rode. It wasn't long before we became aware that if we put the chain weight into the anchor itself we'd be better off, especially after experiencing a 'bar tight (chain) rode' that jerked the daylights out of everything/everyone aboard when it fetched up. There have been many, many posts here about snubbers, but I just couldn't bring myself to complicate things that way, so we opted for 100% nylon rode.

Then we got into the kellet/multiple anchor thing, which meant more complications so we just got a bigger anchor.

By now, the anchor was too big to manage by hand. Not wanting to indulge in complicated windlasses, we opted to go with a manual rig. Now that we didn't have any stubborn, gypsy jamming, mud catching chain to contend with, a simple capstan could be used. We opted for a 2 speed sheet winch.

With a couple wraps, the winch would only allow line to be pulled in...it would not go backwards. There is a long handle that locks into the top of the winch. When you turn the handle one way, the capstan turns at a 1 to 1 ratio. Move the handle in the other direction it takes 3 turns for one turn of the capstan. This simple piece of gear made anchoring a pleasure.

I guess if you only anchor occasionally, you view kellets, all chain rode and snubbers as a viable alternative, but when you live aboard, dropping the hook regularly, it's got to be simple and right.

And I've mentioned before, just because your ground tackle is keeping you put, doesn't mean you won't have to get it up in a hurry when someone is dragging down on you and any extra junk you attach to your anchor will complicate getting it up at a time when you most wish it was simple and easy.

OK...so just about every other long distance cruiser I know has it all wrong...

Marin · Jan 3, 2013

jeffnick said:
There have been many, many posts here about snubbers, but I just couldn't bring myself to complicate things that way, so we opted for 100% nylon rode.

Complicated? A snubber? Never thought I'd hear a piece of nylon line with a hook on one end called "complicated" but I guess it can be more confusing than I would have thought.

Peter B · Jan 3, 2013

Certainly, the snubber bridle which fouled the anchor in the post I put up there titles "Anchors away...sort of", caused a potentially dangerous situation, saved only by a fellow boater getting promptly over there in a dinghy he already had in the water. How the bridle got dropped over the anchor chain I have no idea, but it did. Another thing I noticed was just how soon the snubbers and bridles used on all the boats around me were pulled taught and in line with the chain in quite modest winds, confirming to me my simple shorter snubber is about as simple and uncomplicated as it can be, and unlikely to cause anchoring or retrieval complications, yet still do the job of absorbing shock and sparing the winch just as well as all the longer and complicated bridle type versions one sees around.

FF · Jan 3, 2013

The All nylon . way to go, but with a heavy chain that is too short to need to have the windlass pull it , is also our way to anchor.

Set it and forget it , the problem is usually on the initial boat setup,

having a bow roller that will work with 60lb+ anchors , instead of watch fobs .

With Hyd the drum turns slowly at start up idle (800RPM) ,so the bride takes a turn rarely two and away we go.

IN the Bahamas or down island we are stuck with using all chain , coral eats nylon

Peter B · Jan 3, 2013

So, essentially, it would appear that for the majority of us, who are not ocean-going, an effective simple set up, with adequate and preferably multi-bottom capable anchor, of a really decent weight, an effective and reliable windlass, and either all chain and simple snubber, or mixed nylon/chain depending on average depths encountered, in which case no separate snubber needed, and you're good to go, following the KISS principle. Which means no tandems anchors, preferably no dual anchors/rodes, and probably not, but possibly...a good Kellet like maybe an Anchor Buddy, and for the vast majority of occasions...no dramas...and no dramas is good...right...?

Nomad Willy · Jan 3, 2013

You're gett'in close to the bottom line Peter. The word bottom is a big hint. The bottom is the biggest variable. I think that deserves repeating.

So I like very much what FF is doing and saying except I do use a modern anchor at times .. actually most of the time. But I keep reflecting back on that fisherman in Craig Ak that says re his Dreadnought anchor that it holds well in the 50 knot summer gales but drags in the 60 knot winter gales. But for myself when I knew it was going to blow 50 I didn't put out the Dreadnought but my favorite modern anchor.

FF, How big is the drum on your hydraulic winch? Sounds like you're using a capstan like a sailboat line handling "Capstan". Not a reel winch that stores the whole rode on the drum. I use a capstan also but very small and inexpensive electric.

Alemao · Jan 3, 2013

Great, always learning

Alemao · Jan 3, 2013

I have an old (24 years) Maxwell winddless that just pull the anchor.
Can I change the motor to it also push? I already see and appear that the motor is diferent from the new one.

Rambler · Jan 3, 2013

Alemao said:
I have an old (24 years) Maxwell winddless that just pull the anchor.
Can I change the motor to it also push? I already see and appear that the motor is diferent from the new one.

Yes, it'd be good to be able to lower the anchor by power than let it splash and drop. And no, the motor isn;t the only thing that would be an issue, as there would be gear issues (up -v- down). Best to get a new windlass that does everything you want it to do, and be powered for the anchor you carry (and then some).

psneeld · Jan 3, 2013

Many can be reversed...but not all..(all you have to do is add a pre-made reversing switch set or use a couple heavy duty solenoids....)

To besure you'll have to dig up the manual, call Maxwell or get lucky and someone here will know or do it for you...

Alemao · Jan 4, 2013

I already tried to reverse the palarity, but the windlass just pull. I never saw that , one DC motor that don't turn to other side.

Alemao · Jan 4, 2013

Next 17, I´m going to sse the boart and will try again some solution

bfloyd4445 · Jan 5, 2013

boatpoker said:
I have used tandem anchoring three times in high gales, one of which lasted three days (no sleep). The primary rode is run through a large stainless steel caribiner at the secondary anchor so the secondary anchor acts as a large kellet keeping the primary rode horizonatal on the bottom. I had no problems with tangled rodes due to tide or current changes. In previous storm conditions I put out two separate rodes and always had a tangled mess to deal with.

I like this idea
How are the rode's retrieved? Seems to me that the second anchor is acting like a mooring buoy and takes much of the load off of the first anchor?
Does anyone use a mooring buoy?

Tidahapah · Jan 6, 2013

Originally Posted by boatpoker

I have used tandem anchoring three times in high gales, one of which lasted three days (no sleep). The primary rode is run through a large stainless steel caribiner at the secondary anchor so the secondary anchor acts as a large kellet keeping the primary rode horizonatal on the bottom. I had no problems with tangled rodes due to tide or current changes. In previous storm conditions I put out two separate rodes and always had a tangled mess to deal with.

I like the above method a lot and will set up something similar on Tidahapah. (I think)
Previously I have used 2 anchors on numerous occasions when sitting out a blow anchored up in the outer reefs of the Great Barrier Reef.
I have previously used my spare plough, 60 lb shackled on to the cross bar of my primary anchor with about 10 mts (30') of chain.
A bit of a pita to set and retrieve but has always held very well, but one is actually using the smaller anchor as the primary anchor.
The secret will be to get a suitable large shackle that will run down the anchor chain as I am worried that a carbiner might snag on the anchor chain.
It would appear that it might work better with rope rode (a no no for me) than all chain.
I may have to give it more thought.
Cheers
Benn

Marin · Jan 6, 2013

bfloyd4445 said:
Does anyone use a mooring buoy?

We have them at the little island in the San Juan's where we have property. And of course most of the Washington State Marine Parks have mooring buoys. But for them to be reliable in windy weather they need to be secured to pretty hefty anchors that won't unset if the wind shifts.

The marine parks today use big screw anchors that are "drilled" down into the bottom. At the island our mooring buoys are anchored to blocks of concrete that over the years have buried or half buried themselves in the mud. The sizes of the blocks vary with the sizes of the owners' boats. Some are a half ton, some are a ton and there may be larger ones.

Screw anchors and concrete blocks are not the most practical things to carry on a boat like ours.

And a mooring buoy doesn't take any load off its anchor. It just makes it easy to find and pick up the permanent rode attached to the anchor. The load of the boat is transmitted to the anchor through the buoy. In fact the buoys we use run the rode up through the center of the buoy to a big ring that lies on top of the buoy. So the buoy itself is simply like a bead that slides up and down on a string.

Peter B · Jan 6, 2013

Tidahapah said:
Originally Posted by boatpoker
I have used tandem anchoring three times in high gales, one of which lasted three days (no sleep). The primary rode is run through a large stainless steel caribiner at the secondary anchor so the secondary anchor acts as a large kellet keeping the primary rode horizonatal on the bottom. I had no problems with tangled rodes due to tide or current changes. In previous storm conditions I put out two separate rodes and always had a tangled mess to deal with.

I like the above method a lot and will set up something similar on Tidahapah. (I think)
Previously I have used 2 anchors on numerous occasions when sitting out a blow anchored up in the outer reefs of the Great Barrier Reef.
I have previously used my spare plough, 60 lb shackled on to the cross bar of my primary anchor with about 10 mts (30') of chain.
A bit of a pita to set and retrieve but has always held very well, but one is actually using the smaller anchor as the primary anchor.
The secret will be to get a suitable large shackle that will run down the anchor chain as I am worried that a carbiner might snag on the anchor chain.
It would appear that it might work better with rope rode (a no no for me) than all chain.
I may have to give it more thought.
Cheers
Benn

Benn, I think you would be better off just getting an anchor buddy, and keeping it simple, for the odd occasion you need the extra weight.
Worldwide distributors for Anchor Buddy anchor weights / kellets

Worldwide distributors for Anchor Buddy anchor weights / kellets

Tidahapah · Jan 6, 2013

I don't know Peter @ $340.00 when I already have a spare anchor on board.
Havn't done much in the last couple of years but am endeavouring to get back out a lot more this next few years and when I was doing the reef a few times a year for a couple of weeks at a time I was doing the tandem anchor caper 2 or 3 times a trip.
It is good to see they are available down here now as they weren't previously.
By the way how far away are you from the Gold Coast City Marine complex.
If this next refit comes off I may have the boat down there for a couple of months.
Cheers
Benn

PS. Peter, on second thoughts it may be a bloody good purchase, will have to check on freight costs.

bfloyd4445 · Jan 6, 2013

Marin said:
And a mooring buoy doesn't take any load off its anchor. It just makes it easy to find and pick up the permanent rode attached to the anchor. The load of the boat is transmitted to the anchor through the buoy. In fact the buoys we use run the rode up through the center of the buoy to a big ring that lies on top of the buoy. So the buoy itself is simply like a bead that slides up and down on a string.

Well i know you hate chapman's, but the approved method in a storm according to them is to use a float on your rode to which your vessel is attached. They claim the reason the anchor gives way is because the wave action causes the weight of the vessel to be applied directly to the anchor via the rode. To fix this they recommend using a buoy attached to the anchor with proper scope then the boat is attached to the buoy. The bouy then takes the wave load of the boat allowing the anchor to stay set.
The above is the reason for my original question. Oh, power squadron has the same recommendation s0 does boat US

Nomad Willy · Jan 6, 2013

Now that I have a winch I just use caribiners to clip my Kellet to the chain about 10' behind the anchor.

Tandem anchors

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