Mainship 34 electrical panel fire

"Hi....looking for an original electrical panel replacement for my 1981 Mainship 34. Photo shows fire damage caused by shore power shorting out the 120v amp meter."

Maybe the "original" is not good enough. At a minimum I'd recommend a larger and sturdier shore/genset/house/off switching device with appropriate sized wiring. According to my sources, this area is often prone to failure in many brands of older vessels.

sunchaser said:

"Hi....looking for an original electrical panel replacement for my 1981 Mainship 34. Photo shows fire damage caused by shore power shorting out the 120v amp meter."

Maybe the "original" is not good enough. At a minimum I'd recommend a larger and sturdier shore/genset/house/off switching device with appropriate sized wiring. According to my sources, this area is often prone to failure in many brands of older vessels.

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I would tend to agree. Original often isn't better. Original often was an inexpensive part where there are better units on the market.

I would carefully consider something from a reputable manufacturer like Blue Sea at www.bluesea.com

The #1 is shore power cords/plugs and electrical panels. Most boats do not have a breaker between the bots shore power and the electrical panel which is not recommend by ABFC. I also agree with replacing size the wire bigger.

Marine stores do sell replacement distribution panel. Try Fisheries supply the main distributor the of the Puget Sound. Fisheries Supply - Marine Supplies Since 1928

Are you off your meds again P/F. What the heck are you trying to say?

esperanza said:

Hi....looking for an original electrical panel replacement for my 1981 Mainship 34. Photo shows fire damage caused by shore power shorting out the 120v amp meter. Any assistance or help in locating a used panel is appreciated. I just purchased the boat one month before the fire. Luckily I was on board to put it out but I still really like the Mainship. Cheers. Ron

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This is not the time to buy used. Get it new and save burning the boat down to the waterline.

Have a good electrician look it over and fix it correctly, the first time.

My own opinion is to follow JD's advice and get a competent and reputable marine electrician down to look at the situation and advise you on the proper components to install. And then have him install them if you have any doubt about your own abilities in this area.

Most boat fires seem to be related to electrical issues, so why take a chance with inferior or unsuitable components? Since you have to replace these components anyway the smart solution would seem to be to upgrade to a safe, reliable system.

Boats are not like collector cars. There is no damage to the boat's value by upgrading things like electrical components to something better than what the manufacturer originally installed. In fact doing so usually adds value to the boat.

sunchaser;119177 [FONT=Arial said:

Maybe the "original" is not good enough. At a minimum I'd recommend a larger and sturdier shore/genset/house/off switching device with appropriate sized wiring. According to my sources, this area is often prone to failure in many brands of older vessels.[/FONT]

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Since it made it without bursting into flame for more than 30 years I suspect the wiring and switch are appropriately sized.

It is far more likely that the fire resulted from an arc fault due to a loose or corroded connection that had not seen daylight since it was built. The only breaker that would have helped in that case is an arc fault circuit interrupter and few boats have them installed.

A boat vibrates in a corrosive environment, make it a routine to inspect and tighten all electrical connections on a regular basis.

RickB said:

The only breaker that would have helped in that case is an arc fault circuit interrupter and few boats have them installed.

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What exactly is this and where would it be installed in the circuitry?

Marin said:

What exactly is this and where would it be installed in the circuitry?

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Google AFCI or arc fault circuit interruptor.

RickB said:

Google AFCI or arc fault circuit interruptor.

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Thanks.

PS-- So I did look this up as you suggested. The issue I see with it on a boat, at least our boat, is the tendency that was described of them reacting to "false positives" or equipment that arcs as matter of function. For example, during the winter we keep heat on the boat in the form of a pair of electric oil heaters, one in the engine room and one in the aft cabin. We keep them on the lowest of the three wattage settings with the thermostat halfway up. When the thermostat turns the heater on there is a brief flash when the switch arcs. So I'm guessing that if we had an AFCI installed it would switch off the AC power to the boat every time one of the heaters activated.

Marin said:

Thanks.

PS-- So I did look this up as you suggested. the issue I see with it on a boat, at least our boat, is the tendency that was described of them reacting to "false positives" or equipment that arcs as matter of function. For example, during the winter we keep heat on the boat in the form of a pair of electric oil heaters, one in the engine room and one in the aft cabin. We keep them on the lowest of the three wattage settings with the thermostat halfway up. When the thermostat turns the heater on there is a brief flash when the switch arcs. So I'm guessing that if we had an AFCI installed it would switch off the AC power to the boat every time one of the heaters activated.

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When the arc fault protectors came into the code. they were a great big headache. We had cases of them that we had to change out. Recently, not so much. As in anything else they were fine tuned. That's the capitalistic system. Someone sold the code enforcers on them so that a profit could be made. If they didn't clean up the product, they would be kicked out. So, we in the trades had to go through the testing period for them at great expense to us. That's just how it is.

Yes, the explanations and descriptions I read about them did say that the false-positive issue was something the industry was working to resolve.

RT Firefly said:

Are you off your meds again P/F. What the heck are you trying to say?

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Most boats do not have a breaker between the bots shore power and the electrical panel which is not recommend by ABFC
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Meds are OK, but thanks for asking.

Let’s see what was I tying to say? I meant to say:

Most boats do not have a breaker between the boats shore power and the electrical panel which is now recommend by ABYC.

What a difference a few letters make!

Not to change the subject. Maybe I'm wrong ( somebody please correct me), but I would not even replace the fire box. Assuming you have diesel engine(s). The purpose of the fire box is to shut down the engins in the event of a fire in the engin room. ( an extremely unlikely occurance with Diesel engines) The fire box has an interlock that will shutdown the fuel solenoid in the event the hylon tank losses pressure. This causes your engins to shut down. I had a friend that had both his engins shutdown while away. Which could have caused a dangerous situation.
He did not have a fire or a hylon loss, he simply had a faulty halon pressure switch.
I'm not a big fan of fireboxes on Diesel engines but I would like to hear others opinion.

jann said:

... the event of a fire in the engin room. ( an extremely unlikely occurance with Diesel engines) ...

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I think the accident databases will show that to be inaccurate. Most boat fires are fuel related and originate in the engine room.

After all, that is where there is the greatest likelihood of a fuel leak and an abundance of ignition sources.

RickB said:

I think the accident databases will show that to be inaccurate. Most boat fires are fuel related and originate in the engine room.

After all, that is where there is the greatest likelihood of a fuel leak and an abundance of ignition sources.

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Speaking anecdotally, having been spared any ER fires, is it true that it is easier for a fire to start in a gas engined boat due to higher flammability and the possible presence of enclosed explosive gas vapour, but if you have a diesel fire it is harder to extinguish? I suppose the "opportunity to extinguish" is a plus, in a gas boat the explosion may have already eliminated any opportunity.
That said (or asked), give me diesels any day. I`m sure if I had a gas genset which leaked fuel as my diesel genset did one day, certainly not the boat, possibly not me, would still be around.

RickB said:

I think the accident databases will show that to be inaccurate. Most boat fires are fuel related and originate in the engine room.

After all, that is where there is the greatest likelihood of a fuel leak and an abundance of ignition sources.

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BoatUS insurance statistics show electrical is the cause of most boat fires and fuel leaks the least likely cause.

I'd venture to guess that AC Shore Power connections are the most likely source as well. You've got a high-amperage, pressure-contact mechanical AC connection that's exposed to the weather and in a situation where a rocking boat can potentially slowly wiggle that cable all day long.

My last 3 boats all have had an issue with this at some point.

My shore power cords are not plugged in at the boat end. They are hard wired and the connections are secure and waterproof. Never had a problem with the boat end of the cord.

boatpoker said:

My shore power cords are not plugged in at the boat end. They are hard wired and the connections are secure and waterproof. Never had a problem with the boat end of the cord.

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Great idea. Not sure if I could do that on mine. No convenient place to store the cable.

Our groundpower connection on the boat is in the side of the cabin about a third of the length of the boat back from the bow. The cable goes to the deck and then back up to be tied to the base of the rail stanchion opposite the connector. The cable is then secured to the stanchion bases on up to the bow and it leaves the boat off the end of the pulpit. So there is no movement of the cable or connector where it plugs in to the boat.

There is the SmartPlug (I think that's the name) that purports to eliminate all the common problems with the typical twist-lock connectors used on standard groundbower cables. They are expensive but the few people we know who have them swear by them.

The "smart plugs" I've seen also require the shore power pedestal to match. I have not seen a marina that has switched yet.

boatpoker said:

The "smart plugs" I've seen also require the shore power pedestal to match. I have not seen a marina that has switched yet.

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Our boat has been converted to a SmartPlug, we use a 30 Amp Dual Configuration Cordsets and also have an old marinco cord that I replaced the boat end to SmartPlug. Both these cords use the old 3 prong twist plugs on the shore side.

One thing it has going for it is the 30 Amp Inlet contains a trip thermostat which cuts power in the unlikely event of overheating. It’s set to trip at 200ºF (93ºC), just before wire insulation begins to soften and restore the power once it has cooled back down to a safe temperature of around 120ºF (49ºC).

Just a happy and satisfied customer. Best part is the Admiral loves how easy it is to use.

The biggest problem with shore power cords I have seen is with dual 30 amp services where 2 air conditioning units are on one 30 amp service and it usually starts to overheat at one end or the other then the other end starts too.

A friend of mine has a relatively new Catalina 42 sailboat and has had his AC shore power weld itself to the boat connection point 2x in the last couple of years.

I've had one just about there at the dock end...smoking and sizzling on a New Years Day frosty morning in Annapolis a few years back...

When that happens you should replace both the plug and socket. The corrode and overheat together, and if you just replace one, the bad other end will damage the new one. If you want to prevent that from ever happening, spray the socket and plug every three months or so with Corrosion Block. I've got connections that are well over 11 years old and still look like new.

Keith said:

When that happens you should replace both the plug and socket. The corrode and overheat together, and if you just replace one, the bad other end will damage the new one. If you want to prevent that from ever happening, spray the socket and plug every three months or so with Corrosion Block. I've got connections that are well over 11 years old and still look like new.

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Absolutely!

Buuuutttt......My buddies sailboat one WAS almost brand new and the marinas aren't all that responsive if at that end.