Tides and Forward Progress

The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
In fact it doesn't give you the all the data you need to accurately calculate a trip through the San Juan and Gulf Islands.

Sure it does. I get predicted currents and actual observations from stations along the way. Those give me all the accuracy I need to plan my departures.

(This is where you say "No it does not...")
 
Sure it does. I get predicted currents and actual observations from stations along the way. Those give me all the accuracy I need to plan my departures.

(This is where you say "No it does not...")

All you're getting is the data from the stations. There are not stations in every pass, every channel, in the middle of passes and on the edges of those same passes. All you're working with are averages if you consider the whole length and width of the channels, even those with tide or current stations.

Of course you can use it to figure out your best time of departure. You can use a current atlas and Washburn table for that just as accurately.

The current/tide station data is way better than nothing and it definitely will get you in the ballpark. But in terms of truly accurately calculating the time and fuel use for a trip, particularly a long one like the length of the Passage, "No, it does not.":)

And the ballpark data is fine. It's all we use with our boat. We don't try to calculate what will happen on every leg of a route. We don't really care, frankly.

But if you're really trying to nickel and dime your time, fuel consumption, and range, the data to do it accurately up the length of the Passage simply isn't there despite the scattering of tide and current stations along the way.
 
Last edited:
your sog faster with the current, sog slower against the current is indeed a fact. My dog instinctively knows this, too, as he has to put it into practice every time he retrieves something from the water and comes back in a cross-current.

My comment was on the notion (theory) of accurately calculating the current effects for a voyage up or down the inside passage. The data necessary for accurately doing this simply doesn't exist along much of that route. So all one has to work with are general current averages. That inaccuracy combined with the extremely variable local currents along the way in the maze of channels and passes one goes through make it pretty impossible to come up with a truly accurate prediction of time and fuel consumption.

In other locations--- sfo bay perhaps--- where the current data is complete and the geography does not have the same extremely varied effect on local currents over such a huge distance, it is much easier to accurately predict time and fuel use for a cruise.

That's my only point.

OK!
 
And here's another wrinkle into all this navel gazing and futile attempts at precise navigation; bottom topography plays havoc with current speeds marked on the charts. Big issue here in BC, what with all our undulating channel bottoms and constricting of waterways. Just because it's marked as 2 knots here doesn't mean it can't be 4 knots there.
 
And here's another wrinkle into all this navel gazing and futile attempts at precise navigation; bottom topography plays havoc with current speeds marked on the charts. Big issue here in BC, what with all our undulating channel bottoms and constricting of waterways. Just because it's marked as 2 knots here doesn't mean it can't be 4 knots there.

See, at least one other person here gets it. Probably because he lives and boats in an area where all this local variation in currents directly affects him every time he takes his boat or kayak out. If one has any degree of observational skill at all, you can't help but notice it when you're out there in these waters.
 
Get a grip Marin your dog dosn't know s##t.


You'd think so, wouldn't you. But judging by the content of some of the posts in this thread I think our dog knows a hell of a lot more about being on the water than one would expect.:)
 
Rick your'e horney for anchors but you never had much or anything to say about anchors as I remember.

Thre is a good reason I never said anything, I could care less about anchors. They are just a heavy weight attached to a line or chain whose performance is measured by emotion and verbosity. My point is that this discussion is about as ridiculous as the one about anchors.

I wonder if the membership will be consumed by propeller slip or engine miles next ...
 
I stand corrected Mr. SS. Newfoundland dog it is.

No worries. We call them 'Newfs' mostly because to call them Newfoundlands takes 5 minutes to explain the pronunciation. :)

He's more of a "Goof" than a "Newf" anyhow.
 
Thre is a good reason I never said anything, I could care less about anchors. They are just a heavy weight attached to a line or chain whose performance is measured by emotion and verbosity. My point is that this discussion is about as ridiculous as the one about anchors.

I wonder if the membership will be consumed by propeller slip or engine miles next ...

Rick, as we all have done and at times continue to do, you too sometimes make some pretty "of da wall" comments. This post contains more than one of em!

Only reason a boater could care less bout anchors/anchoring and think this thread's discussion regarding currents is ridiculous is because the person has not much experience with using anchors or traveling in currents. Just sayen!
:popcorn:
 
Last edited:
Only reason a boater could care less bout anchors and think this thread's discussion regarding currents is ridiculous is because the person has not much experience with anchoring or traveling in currents. Just sayen! :popcorn:

There you go, Rick. A nice slow ball right down the middle........:)
 
Only reason a boater could care less bout anchors and think this thread's discussion regarding currents is ridiculous is because the person has not much experience with anchoring or traveling in currents. Just sayen!

Yeah, that's it. I guess a couple decades of running tugs and ferries and coastal freigters up the inside between Seattle and SE and around Vancouver Island, the Aleutians, and the QC's doesn't count for much travelling in currents or anchoring in bays and coves in the PNW compared to the seasoned salts who post here.

It taught me enough to recognize BS when I read it though.
 
Gosh, I think I feel a group hug coming up :)
 
Are you new around these parts?

Sorry, got delusional, again. Must be the solstice coming up making me feel all "We're all alone on this lonely planet, so why not try to get along already"?
 
Lol! Hey,Al, just hot back from Utah and Idaho. I'll call you tomorrow if you're around. Same with you, Mark.
 
Last edited:
Ah, silence is golden.
 

Attachments

  • Rickb3.JPG
    Rickb3.JPG
    59.9 KB · Views: 97
Yeah, that's it. I guess a couple decades of running tugs and ferries and coastal freigters up the inside between Seattle and SE and around Vancouver Island, the Aleutians, and the QC's doesn't count for much travelling in currents or anchoring in bays and coves in the PNW compared to the seasoned salts who post here.

It taught me enough to recognize BS when I read it though.

Well, Rick... maybe I was wrong about you! And, that you actually well understand the complications for private pleasure craft (this forum's Trawler contingent) in respect to navigating in currents and choosing the correct style/size anchors and rode for stowage aboard boat and for anchoring in different bottom conditions...sometimes during violent storms. :eek:

Were you the Captain, or pilot, or helmsman or... on the commercial vessels you mention? To any extent you may have been aboard these “ships” (not pleasure craft) I bet you did not need to worry about the safe-anchor type, rode, or extra fuel used by fighting currents... cause corporate types took care of those negligible details for ya! Important details for us as private boat owners, the Captains of our own toy boats, i.e. Pleasure Trawlers. We need to make the correct decisions time after time! :thumb:

BTW: What type of pleasure boat do you currently own and use... what pleasure boats did you previously own and use? :confused:

I’m just trying to level the waters her to find out if I’m talking to a seaman with pleasure boat (what this forum’s all about) experience way over my head – or not!?!? I only go back into the mid 20th Century for costal cruising, inland waters ways, and protective bay usages with pleasure craft.:popcorn:

Looking forward to learn your pleasure boat experience! :D
 
Lol! Hey,Al, just hot back from Utah and Idaho. I'll call you tomorrow if you're around. Same with you, Mark.

Around? Hell ya, I'm around...cause I'm retired now!!! (Sorry, had to rub it in just a little more!)

BTW, that reminds me....my wife tells me I've got to get in shape now that I'm retired. I told her, "Round is a shape!"

Talk to you tomorrow.
 
The world ends the day after tomorrow. 12/21/12

We may never know about Rick B's pleasure boating experience.

Or if Eric will ever find the perfect anchor.

Will Marin ever find another use (other than a door stop) for his Bruce anchor?

Did Flyright ever really teach a man to fish?

And on and on.

sd
 
The world ends the day after tomorrow. 12/21/12

We may never know about Rick B's pleasure boating experience.

Or if Eric will ever find the perfect anchor.

Will Marin ever find another use (other than a door stop) for his Bruce anchor?

Did Flyright ever really teach a man to fish?

And on and on.

sd


We should ask Marin's dog...
 
Looking forward to learn your pleasure boat experience!

If you knew anything about how "inside" tugs are manned you wouldn't hint with such disdain at the scope of such activities. We hauled barges up and down the inside and across to the QC's with boats not much bigger than the toy boats a few here own. A three or 4 man boat running 24 hours a day requires everyone to participate in the operation which includes navigation and operation and I earned a master's ticket doing it.

We anchored everywhere from Elliot Bay to Prince William Sound, and the South East; Bristol Bay to Akutan and Dutch Harbor. We took tows into no-name coves and inlets on the outside of Vancouver Island and most all points along the inside and inlets that you never even heard of wherever floating logging camps were located.

My personally owned toy boats ranged from 12 foot Zodiacs to 24 foot lake union style "dreamboats" to 26 foot sailboats and a 65' wooden tug converted to a yacht and a couple of CHBs from 34' to 48'. I crewed on a large yacht cruising South East and anchored in every inlet and cove on just about every island up there. Is that sufficient to speak of "boating" in your presence?
 
We should ask Marin's dog...

Listen to the dogs to learn if 12/21 (or any other day/night) may have a BIG problem. ;)

Point in fact: 1989 on the day of the Loma Prieta Earth Quake in SF Bay area I was building a substantial sized retaining wall in a residential neighborhood. Had been doing so for some time that year. That day the dogs in the neighborhood simply would not stop howling and barking. I well remember it being very annoying and the dog on location was incredibly skitty all day, never at rest with often a low whimper when not barking or howling. Before then the neighborhood dogs were quiet and the location dog usually was laying down, often asleep. After shutting the project down for the night I drove to a tavern in order to watch the World Series on their projector screen. As I stepped out of my truck on a side street is when the BIG Tumbler struck. It took my one ton 4WD PU and tossed it around so much that I watched the wheels leave the ground by inches. I began to fall in the street and crouched down into a safety position to stay in balance, on my feet. Ever since I listen very carefully to area dog noises... cause they know/feel things we simply don’t.

Soooo... ya never know, Marin’s dog may just understand more about boating than all of us put together! - :D :lol:
 
Last edited:
If you knew anything about how "inside" tugs are manned you wouldn't hint with such disdain at the scope of such activities. We hauled barges up and down the inside and across to the QC's with boats not much bigger than the toy boats a few here own. A three or 4 man boat running 24 hours a day requires everyone to participate in the operation which includes navigation and operation and I earned a master's ticket doing it.

We anchored everywhere from Elliot Bay to Prince William Sound, and the South East; Bristol Bay to Akutan and Dutch Harbor. We took tows into no-name coves and inlets on the outside of Vancouver Island and most all points along the inside and inlets that you never even heard of wherever floating logging camps were located.

My personally owned toy boats ranged from 12 foot Zodiacs to 24 foot lake union style "dreamboats" to 26 foot sailboats and a 65' wooden tug converted to a yacht and a couple of CHBs from 34' to 48'. I crewed on a large yacht cruising South East and anchored in every inlet and cove on just about every island up there. Is that sufficient to speak of "boating" in your presence?

TY for splanen, nice come back, Rick, you be da Man! My hat's off to ya!!

So, although I know you feel anchors are not worth a discussion, and because I admire your experience and background, please do tell us, on your current pleasure boat what type anchor do you like best?? :dance:
 
Last edited:
Anchors. Currents.

Don't kike'um. But here you are Rick.

Prop slip ?? Slippery subject But I'll bet it happens.

Especially if you've got a sack full of pitch.

But that's another thread.
 
The world ends the day after tomorrow. 12/21/12

Did Flyright ever really teach a man to fish?

And on and on.

sd

All I'm sayin' is that one day, a guy taught me how to fish. That's all I remember...
 
I've learned a lot about dogs from this thread. :) other than that it's mostly amusing to read everyone's posts. Thank you everyone for being (relatively) nice in making fun of each other and pointing out how wrong everyone else is. :popcorn:
 
Back
Top Bottom