motion30
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I am in south florida (hollywood ) and would like to find somebody who can take care of the leaks in several of my windows. Any suggestions?
window leaks
- Thread starter motion30
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try capt tolleys creeping crack cure. Sold at a lot of places.
learn more at Captain - Capt. Tolley's Creeping Crack Cure Hairline Crack Sealer 603-435-7199-
learn more at Captain - Capt. Tolley's Creeping Crack Cure Hairline Crack Sealer 603-435-7199-
As one data point for you, I tried this not long after we bought the boat and was very unimpressed with it. I wasn't using on a window leak but on something else that it was supposed to be ideal for. It wasn't and I've never bothered with it again.
I think window leaks are best fixed by truly fixing the problem, which usually involves rebedding the window if it's a simple one-piece sort of deal or dismantling and overhauling it if it's a built-up window like the ones on a Grand Banks.
caltexflanc
Guru
For windows there, your man is Vinny O'Connor of Splash Marine. Accept no substitute. Windows R Him.
954 471 2997
better yet: cell: 561 860 1232
OP
OP
motion30
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Mine are aluminum framed windows Thanks guys
From any glass shop, get some butyl tape. Pull the window out (it will have a flange on the outside that rests against the cabin side, and a removable flange on the inside that when you do up the screws, pulls the whole unit tight) apply the tape all the way around and replace. The tape will come on a roll, wound with a plastic cover. leave the plastic cover on with a corner turned up so you can grab it. When in place, pull the plastic off and press the window agaianst the wall. The tape will adhere to both the window and the wall. No mess. Do up the screws and be leak free.
When my last boat was for sale, all but one of its windows needed this, 12 years old at the time.
YMMV
When my last boat was for sale, all but one of its windows needed this, 12 years old at the time.
YMMV
Cyclone
Senior Member
Great topic. I need advice and direction regarding windows. All my windows need the channel replaced. They are sliding windows, vintage 1987 found on a CC 350/381. It would appear that the units are standalone, attached to the hull with numerous screws and complete units. How do you remove the glass is the issue.
The capt tolleys works very well on hairline cracks in gel coat. regular paints and epoxies just bridge those tiny cracks and they reappear when the air or water in the crack expands due to temperature changes. With hairline cracks you need to sand them away or fill them up. - Capt tolleys looks like watered down elmers glue with somethng added to reduce surface tension so it 'sucks itself' into tiny cracks.
On the windows of an old sailboat I had, I painted around the frames (very carefully) with several coats of spar varnish, until the leaks stopped.
On the windows of an old sailboat I had, I painted around the frames (very carefully) with several coats of spar varnish, until the leaks stopped.
caltexflanc
Guru
I suspected as much by looking at your boat, which is exactly why I recommended who I did.
Merely rebedding the glass in aluminum frames is often not the solution. The frames themselves may need to be pulled and reconditioned (or replaced) and properly rebedded.
BruceK
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Aluminum windows in a previous boat needed work. The metal degrades, even perforates,felt slides wear out, catches fail, glass gets damaged, ss screws react with the frame. Replacement may cheaper and better than remove/repair/refitting. I was surprised how inexpensive made to order replacements were. If doing this, make accurate templates in cardboard.
FF
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The most common failure is usually from the frame to the boat, not the window itself .
As newer stuff is simply sealed with a tape mastic , most of the hard part is figuring out how and where the attachments are hidden.
As newer stuff is simply sealed with a tape mastic , most of the hard part is figuring out how and where the attachments are hidden.
psneeld
Guru
Just replaced 16 windows for $3600 with shipping. 3 sliders, 3 top hinged and the rest were fixed.
Impossible for me to "repair" as EVERY original fixed window at least cracked no matter hoe careful I was and almost every interior and exterior frame broke/cracked at some point no matter how careful I was. My guess is many of the windows were re-bedded at some point with adhesive that glued the glass to the frames.
The real horror story for some if their interior teak is in good shape, the interior frames ripped most of the teak veneer away in large strips....
. I wasn't too worried as I knew a total interior refinish was in the cards. 
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Blue Heron
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Psneeld,
Who did you use to buy the windows?
Who did you use to buy the windows?
Shoalwaters
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Me too - some of your pics look disturbingly familiar.
jeffnick
Guru
I messed with my leaky windows. Here's what I learned.
1) Trying to rebuild the old ones is a losing battle.
2) My leaks could all be fixed without removing the windows by running a bead of latex caulk in the frame/cabin crevice.
3) The emergency dam to direct the water back out, while effective was totally unnecessary.
Keep in mind if you read the blog, that there is no wood in the cabin sides of my boat so rot is not an issue. Also that family time aboard is what the boat is all about - Big Duck's beauty is in her character and utility.
One More Time Around: Land N Sea Windows - Part I
One More Time Around: Land N Sea Windows - Part 2
One More Time Around: Land N Sea Windows - Part 3
1) Trying to rebuild the old ones is a losing battle.
2) My leaks could all be fixed without removing the windows by running a bead of latex caulk in the frame/cabin crevice.
3) The emergency dam to direct the water back out, while effective was totally unnecessary.
Keep in mind if you read the blog, that there is no wood in the cabin sides of my boat so rot is not an issue. Also that family time aboard is what the boat is all about - Big Duck's beauty is in her character and utility.
One More Time Around: Land N Sea Windows - Part I
One More Time Around: Land N Sea Windows - Part 2
One More Time Around: Land N Sea Windows - Part 3
psneeld
Guru
Blue Heron
Guru
Thank you
caltexflanc
Guru
All aluminum frames are not created equal, and what might be ok on an RV or freshwater boat can be short lived in a salt water environment. Since the way frames and windows are mounted in different boats varies greatly, I'd be cautious about taking one person's experience as a guideline for what you need to do or can get away with.
Cyclone
Senior Member
Greetings: I agree, but the more talk the more shared information. I replaced all my windows on my previous boat, used Beclawat mfg in Canada. They were clamp on, and worked very well. The only fault was that I specified black, and let me tell you the heat/cold expansion/contraction issue was a real problem.
The current issue deals with just how without going back to a mfg do you do normal almost routine maintenance. Simple things??, like replacing the channels. Jeffnick's post showed the potential problems, but surely there is a better way to undertake this problem, and we all face it with sliding windows, screens or no screens. Looking at the windows I am wondering if the frames are in fact not joined at some location. The Beclawat windows were and if so perhaps once the window is removed you are able to open the frame and extract the glass and replace the channel. Re installing would bring the frame back to its orginal shape with a dob of caulking at the joint make it water tight.
The windows on all boats start out dry. I remember a major maker, Post I believe, who warrented windows against leaking. HA!!, can never happen given the movement of hulls, heat/cold issues and generally poor manufacturing, or installation on Friday/Monday.
The aluminum issue is real, but to day most marine items are made of metal mixes which have a long salt water life. Look at the west coast and the number of aluminum hulls. One thing for sure, the expansion/contraction issue is eleminated.
I am also going to ask the Passage Maker geru, Steve D'Antonio, his take on the issue. Bill.
The current issue deals with just how without going back to a mfg do you do normal almost routine maintenance. Simple things??, like replacing the channels. Jeffnick's post showed the potential problems, but surely there is a better way to undertake this problem, and we all face it with sliding windows, screens or no screens. Looking at the windows I am wondering if the frames are in fact not joined at some location. The Beclawat windows were and if so perhaps once the window is removed you are able to open the frame and extract the glass and replace the channel. Re installing would bring the frame back to its orginal shape with a dob of caulking at the joint make it water tight.
The windows on all boats start out dry. I remember a major maker, Post I believe, who warrented windows against leaking. HA!!, can never happen given the movement of hulls, heat/cold issues and generally poor manufacturing, or installation on Friday/Monday.
The aluminum issue is real, but to day most marine items are made of metal mixes which have a long salt water life. Look at the west coast and the number of aluminum hulls. One thing for sure, the expansion/contraction issue is eleminated.
I am also going to ask the Passage Maker geru, Steve D'Antonio, his take on the issue. Bill.
psneeld
Guru
Yep...not all the same but at 1/2 to 1/3 the price...I can replace them in minutes and still come out ahead. Yes some frames may need a bit'o sanding and touchup...but I bet I only replace a few over the next 30 years.
If I was a true blue water cruiser...yeah I would have gone more durable/stronger, etc....but a ditch sailor with a short crossing every once and awhile...can't imagine more expensive windows would be any better considering the average price difference.
If I was a true blue water cruiser...yeah I would have gone more durable/stronger, etc....but a ditch sailor with a short crossing every once and awhile...can't imagine more expensive windows would be any better considering the average price difference.
FF
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can't imagine more expensive windows would be any better considering the average price difference.
The problem is more expensive windows would only be worthwhile in a PH that can stand up to what the new windows are suitable for.
The problem is more expensive windows would only be worthwhile in a PH that can stand up to what the new windows are suitable for.
Cyclone
Senior Member
Given my inability to post something from another source, the following was received from Steve D'Antonio, Passage Maker. Dec 16 at 0959
Thanks for your note and comments. Sliding windows have been the bane of boat owners virtually since they were first introduced, with wood frames. When aluminum frame windows were introduced, the challenges remained, albeit for different reasons.
Aluminum, as I've written on many occasions, is a wonderfully versatile maetal that lends itself well so so many onboaard structures. It does, however, have some weaknesses, chief among these is a type of corrosion knon as puoltice. Poultice corrosion occurs when aluminum remains wet and starved of ozxygen. The tracks or grooves in which your, and many other, windows slide are the ideal breeding ground for this phenomenon. The mechansim by which this occurs is twofold. One, the fuzzy weather strip material that's used in most aluminum windows is hygroscopic, it holds water, against the aluminum, that ultimately becomes stagnant, which in turn fosters the corrosion. Two, the byproduct of this corrosion, aluminum oxide crystals (it looks like greezer-burned vanilla ice cream) tends to clog the already small window track drains, whihch exacerbated the problem by retaining still more water. As an added bonus, when the drains clog water overflows the tracts and ofter runs inboard, into the boat.
Preventing the problem involves routinely washing out the tracks with fresh water and making certain drains are clear. If the windows have become lodged in the tracks, as you have, freeing them can be a challenging. Dissolving or loosening years' worth of aluminum oxide can be difficult. Initially, I'd try a penetrating solvent such as PB Blaster. Spray it into the tracks and let it remain for a few hours. If that doesn't work, you may wish to try something more agressive. Contact Trac Ecological, they offer a line of products designed to clean and descale aluminum and oather metals used in marine cooling systems. The my be applicable for this application as well. www.trac-online.com Once the windows are free, you may find the tracks do not need to be replaced. If they do require replacement, the frames would need to be removed from teh cabin, tough to do without damaging them, disassembled and the bottam track protion replaced, a process that is typically economically infeasible. At that point, the only practical solution is complete window/frame replacement.
My comments: This reply took less than 24 hours: Not a very satisfactory answer to the issue, but Steve has, as others have found, articulated an issue which we all face. Being on fresh H20 has its merits, but like the wooden sailor's dry rot of any sort spells $$'s to resolve the problem. The only point I suppose is to undertake the washing with the products suggested, but the short and long of it is that window function as well as water mark noting becomes a first IA when viewing a boat for potential purchase. Soldier on and solve the problem, $$ in hand, as well as labor.
Thanks for your note and comments. Sliding windows have been the bane of boat owners virtually since they were first introduced, with wood frames. When aluminum frame windows were introduced, the challenges remained, albeit for different reasons.
Aluminum, as I've written on many occasions, is a wonderfully versatile maetal that lends itself well so so many onboaard structures. It does, however, have some weaknesses, chief among these is a type of corrosion knon as puoltice. Poultice corrosion occurs when aluminum remains wet and starved of ozxygen. The tracks or grooves in which your, and many other, windows slide are the ideal breeding ground for this phenomenon. The mechansim by which this occurs is twofold. One, the fuzzy weather strip material that's used in most aluminum windows is hygroscopic, it holds water, against the aluminum, that ultimately becomes stagnant, which in turn fosters the corrosion. Two, the byproduct of this corrosion, aluminum oxide crystals (it looks like greezer-burned vanilla ice cream) tends to clog the already small window track drains, whihch exacerbated the problem by retaining still more water. As an added bonus, when the drains clog water overflows the tracts and ofter runs inboard, into the boat.
Preventing the problem involves routinely washing out the tracks with fresh water and making certain drains are clear. If the windows have become lodged in the tracks, as you have, freeing them can be a challenging. Dissolving or loosening years' worth of aluminum oxide can be difficult. Initially, I'd try a penetrating solvent such as PB Blaster. Spray it into the tracks and let it remain for a few hours. If that doesn't work, you may wish to try something more agressive. Contact Trac Ecological, they offer a line of products designed to clean and descale aluminum and oather metals used in marine cooling systems. The my be applicable for this application as well. www.trac-online.com Once the windows are free, you may find the tracks do not need to be replaced. If they do require replacement, the frames would need to be removed from teh cabin, tough to do without damaging them, disassembled and the bottam track protion replaced, a process that is typically economically infeasible. At that point, the only practical solution is complete window/frame replacement.
My comments: This reply took less than 24 hours: Not a very satisfactory answer to the issue, but Steve has, as others have found, articulated an issue which we all face. Being on fresh H20 has its merits, but like the wooden sailor's dry rot of any sort spells $$'s to resolve the problem. The only point I suppose is to undertake the washing with the products suggested, but the short and long of it is that window function as well as water mark noting becomes a first IA when viewing a boat for potential purchase. Soldier on and solve the problem, $$ in hand, as well as labor.
psneeld
Guru
Window tracks are an issue for some boats that take a lot of spray along the main cabin...I elected to do away with sliding widows and just go with top hinged (center front/and two rear main cabin)...I figure the doors slide open and I'm toying with the idea of removing the door windows and have them like storm door windows that you can remove and replace with screens. All this is because I know I'll want airflow..but the way I see it at the dock fans create airflow and at anchor the top hinged windows will be in line with the airflow.
The advantage of doing away with sliders in the main salon is now there's no vertical in the middle and the view is OUTSTANDING now (plus the windows are a smidge bigger so it's really nice)
The advantage of doing away with sliders in the main salon is now there's no vertical in the middle and the view is OUTSTANDING now (plus the windows are a smidge bigger so it's really nice)
krogenken
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For a process of replacing the channel in your frames, look at the Lord Nelson Tug site ( lnvt.org. I think). You will find a very thorough photo blog on how window channels were replaced on Nellie D hull #63. Depending on your type of windows, you might do something similar.
Ken
Ken
Ben
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So the process was
- Size your windows and send this information to Wynne.
- Get quoted. Pay 100% up front or partial until job finished?
- How long does it take to get windows after quote?
- Do they have a busy season/slack season?
Thanks!
psneeld
Guru
The sales guys were super...they are primarily a RV supplier so they are huge and roll non-stop all year.
I measured but being a live aboard, I estimated instead of taking out the windows and measuring the actual openings...kinda of a mistake but I'm pretty handy with glass work...plus I had to radius in all the corners anyway as I went with radius windows as I think they look better and are stronger/less prone to leaks.
I paid up front...I forget their plan if it's flexible...everything including shipping crate was first rate.
Went with painted instead of powder coating...glad I did as they always get dinged/scratched and the paint after a year shows no signs of bubbling where powder coating usually shows damage pretty quickly.
I think it was about 3 weeks from order to delivery....maybe a tad longer but the freight travel time was about 10 days from factory to where I am in Jersey.
I did it in the water..no difference for where to do it though..just living aboard and ripping out widows, then glassing and grinding did create a pretty big issue for my liveaboard girlfriend.... I would do 2-3 windows at a time to keep the glassing in the radius corners flowing as I ripped out the next set of windows which would take the better part of a day to do it without just using a sledgehammer and making a huge mess...
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Ben
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Man, that's good to know. Did you do any sliders? How did they work out? Are the windows thicker/thinner than regular boat windows?
Thanks for your response! I'm slowly making a plan.
psneeld
Guru
I put non opening windows in the main salon an it really opened it up like picture windows not having the vertical bars in them, put 2 aft/1 forward top hinged in the main salon and then the ones in the aft cabin/aft head are sliders (would have preferred top hinge but they woud have opened into the walkaround decks.
Suprising how much costlier the top hinged windows were.
Used non opening in the main salon sides as I figured the 2 doors could (and do) provide cross ventilation when truly needed .
I just have to make better screens for the doors as well as for the top hinged.....screens seem to be Wynne's weak point but are just fine on the sliders.
